The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
YeshuaBought
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
backwardseden
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/15/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 603 times Debate No: 115562
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

Yes, they are binding forever.
Yes. Thus jesus is false, christianity is false, the NT is false.

The laws are an everlasting covenant, for a thousand generations, always and forever. That means that nobody, especially a piddling little squalor of a sideman's arm of god, namely christ can change them. Not for any reason. Not ever.
* The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
* Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Proverbs 30:5
* The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8
* Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Deuteronomy 7:9
* Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway. Deuteronomy 11:1
* Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant. 1 Chronicles 16:15
* Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Psalm 119:151-2
* Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160

God will curse you if you don't obey his commandments.
* Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Keeping the commandments is the whole duty of every human.
* Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

Remember (and obey) the law of Moses.
* Remember ye the law of Moses. Malachi 4:4

Jesus instructed his followers to obey all of the commandments.
* Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19
* It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:17
* One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Luke 19:16-17

And even Paul seemed to agree with Jesus on this (sometimes).
* The doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13
* Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31


No, they were only temporary.
After the birth of John the Baptist the laws no longer applied.
* The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached. Luke 16:16

* People are justfied by faith. The law doesn't matter.
* Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

If you've got grace, you don't need to obey the law.
* Ye are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

Jesus's body made you dead to God's laws.
* Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ .... We are delivered from the law, that being dead. Romans 7:4, 6

Believe in Jesus and you can ignore the law.
* Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4

Jesus saved you from the curse of God's laws.
* Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law. Galatians 3:13

The laws are were meant to teach you about Jesus. Once you believe, you can ignore the laws.
* Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:24-25

Ignore God's law. Be led by the Spirit instead.
* But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Jesus destroyed the laws with his flesh, nailing them to his cross.
* Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances. Ephesians 2:15
* Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ... nailing it to his cross. Colossians 2:14

Now notice one thing, just one for your bearded eye that has no ability to see, with all the NT "christian" laws that supposedly made christians, christians, how many of them were approved by your god? If you"ve answered 0, then you"ve answered correctly. Thus "the law" DOES NOT EXIST. Its god that matters here and not an oafing cow christ who claimed himself to be the terrorist king of the swastika beach WITHOUT GOD"S PERMISSION. Thus jesus was false (if he ever even existed), christianity is false and the entire NT is false. And since your god did not approve of any of "the law" in the NT, then your god"s laws stands firm from the OT, such as the stoning of gays, death to those that blaspheme, death to those that curse at their parents (which is also a OT and NT law), death to those that work on the sabbath so jesus should have also been rightly butchered by that law, death to those that commit adultery, death to those that do not love and or worship god and or worship different gods etc etc etc like it or not, too bad if you don"t.

RULES:
Prove that the OT laws are false. That would obviously mean that you would have to prove that god is false from the OT and that the laws of the NT are correct which would mean that god"s understudy, christ is correct, thus you do not believe in god, and you believe in christ in which case is a massive hypocritical contradiction because you cannot prove that either of them has ever existed. You would also have to prove "what law" that undermines the OT laws? And exactly to the letter WHICH LAWS of the OT are to be no longer followed? All of them? If its all of them, then you would have to prove ALL jews from all over the world throughout history are incorrect also. Good muck! Oh sorry. I meant to say Good luck! Yeah that's it. A deliberate miss-steak on my part.

Here"s how I run things... if there is the slightest hint of you inventing excuses from something in which you clearly know nothing about, especially when its the subject in which you claim to professing you have knowledge upon, namely this one, and you really don"t, and yet you pretend that you do by coming up with invented excuses and or flat out lying, I will insult you with my brand of insults that are original, funny, stupid, deranged and walls to the ball insane, unless those excuses are so far fetched that they are clearly pulled off from your groin to be a groin pull from the gold-i-lox area to keep scientists looking for other planets, then all bets are truly off and I may end the debate right then and there because I DO KNOW my stuff, whereas most don"t.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
YeshuaBought

Con

https://www.gotquestions.org...
Ephesians 2:8-10 shows that salvation comes first, and works come second. Romans 5:10 says we are saved by the life HE lives, not anything else, Now we are to love the Lord and our neighbor, but the prohibition on shellfish is no longer in full force. I believe Galations says that those who are under the law are cursed, so what then? How do we find salvation? We confess to God that we are sinners, repent, confess to Him that Jesus is Lord, and there is no other, and that god has raised Him from the dead. That is how sinners go to Heaven.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

You know something, I've kept an eye on your debates and your comments for a while now. And I know you better than you know you. Can you honestly state one reason, just one why anyone should believe in your god? You cannot do it without inventing your excuses. And you've got a lot of them. Nothing you said, nothing has anything to do with the approval of your god. (More on that later to completely shatter everything about your religion. But nah you are so brainwashed with it that you will believe in it anyway) And its also pretty apparent that you paid absolutely no attention whatsoever to OT scripture so I shall repeat the OT law in which CANNOT BE CHANGED because it was PERFECT.
The laws are an everlasting covenant, for a thousand generations, always and forever. That means that nobody, especially a piddling little squalor of a sideman's arm of god, namely christ can change them. Not for any reason. Not ever.
* The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
* Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Proverbs 30:5
* The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8
* Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Deuteronomy 7:9
* Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway. Deuteronomy 11:1
* Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant. 1 Chronicles 16:15
* Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Psalm 119:151-2
* Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160
So once again repeating since god's word is "perfect according to your bible in which your god would never use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible for reasons such as what is happening now because you are flat out wrong... Now notice one thing, just one for your bearded eye that has no ability to see, with all the NT "christian" laws that supposedly made christians, christians, how many of them were approved by your god? If you"ve answered 0, then you"ve answered correctly. Thus "the law" DOES NOT EXIST. Its god that matters here and not an oafing cow christ who claimed himself to be the terrorist king of the swastika beach WITHOUT GOD"S PERMISSION. Thus jesus was false (if he ever even existed), christianity is false and the entire NT is false. And since your god did not approve of any of "the law" in the NT, then your god"s laws stands firm from the OT, such as the stoning of gays, death to those that blaspheme, death to those that curse at their parents (which is also a OT and NT law), death to those that work on the sabbath so jesus should have also been rightly butchered by that law, death to those that commit adultery, death to those that do not love and or worship god and or worship different gods etc etc etc like it or not, too bad if you don"t.

Moving on to completely shatter your religion though I'm sure you will come up with excuses for it in which there are none. ...
John 5: 16-18 "16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
1. Verse 17 jesus is actually saying that YOUR god is working on the sabbath? WHAT? In no possible way is YOUR god going to EVER work on the sabbath. Not for any reason. Not ever. So that either proves that your jesus is a lair (in which we already know that he is as he lied in many points as he promised his return within a generation and that never happened as an example, but wait! you cannot even prove your christ's existence! There will be videos at the end of this round for you to watch. Naturally, you in being a christian, but you are not because you disobey your christ, there's a video on that as well, that will also be included), 2. or the verse is a misprint (but the bible is supposed to be "perfect" so that's out), or that solidly proves that christ was indeed NOT in any way the savior to flatly lie about his father, namely his god. Thus christ is false, the NT is false and christianity is false. All of it is hooey and a load of B.S. 2. Or that the entire OT is false and god is false because after all there's no way that god would ---ever--- work on the sabbath. Well there's a 0% chance of that happening. So which scenario is more likely to be true? Try #2.

Now here's some videos for you to watch in which I know you won't because you are a a supposed christian (in which there is no such a thing especially for you because in no possible way do you follow your christ), you like the typical christian, cannot possibly handle ANY constructive criticism especially if its truthful, if it slapped you in the face. No offence.
http://www.youtube.com... - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?
http://www.youtube.com... - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
http://www.youtube.com... - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
http://www.youtube.com... - Did jesus Exist?
http://www.youtube.com... - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
http://www.youtube.com... - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years?") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
http://www.youtube.com... - The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, but scrap all the mythology)
http://www.youtube.com... - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
http://www.youtube.com... - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark!!!) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
http://www.youtube.com... - What did jesus do for you?
YeshuaBought

Con

Jesus was tortured to death on the cross so all repentant sinners can confess Him as Lord and be saved. He has blessed me beyond measure, and He wants to do the same for you. I was going to kill myself before I got saved, so Jesus saved my life. I want to include these links for you, that are relevant toi our debate. Here they are: https://www.gotquestions.org...
How to get saved: https://www.gotquestions.org...
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

"Jesus was tortured to death on the cross so all repentant sinners can confess Him as Lord and be saved." That's one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said to me. Now you answer this unto me... What can anyone learn from suffering and pain, except that it isn't any good - especially unto children? And if you've said "nothing", then you've answered correctly. Your christ hasn't blessed you at all. YOU'VE BEEN RAPED TWICE. + A whole lot more that you haven' divulged I am sure. Where exactly is your mind? Oh and btw, it has 0 to do with "The Law" in which is what this debate is all about which is what makes you a christian. When are you going to WAKE UP? Oh and oh yeah. You can't even prove that your christ has ever existed. Oh and oh yeah you don't even follow your christ in the first place. Have you given up all of your family as he demands which is total insanity? Have you given up ALL of your possessions as this christ demands? No of course not. Do you love your enemies? In absolutely no possible way do you. And you shouldn't. Your christ was insane.
YeshuaBought

Con

Jesus did it to save people from Hell. He love you enough to want to do that for you. All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God, including religious people.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

jeses in which you STILL still cannot prove has ever existed, didn't save you from hell. You were raped twice. If that isn't hell, what is? And again, what can anyone, especially children, learn from suffering and pain? You, quite obviously, haven't learned a single thing. Sin doesn't exist, you only make excuses for it. Hell doesn't exist either, you only make excuses for it. And you still are avoiding that you exist in a non existent "law" from a non binding fake and fraudulent christian law. But that IS your lot in life, to evade.
YeshuaBought

Con

This video is by a Phd on Jesus.
Debate Round No. 4
backwardseden

Pro

Where did he get the money for his texts to pass out to his audience? He has a briefcase and a suit. So he doesn't follow jesus AT ALL in getting rid of ALL OF HIS POSSESSIONS by any means. Neither do you. After all you have a computer. You also most certainly have a place to live with a roof over your head. Yeah you pay attention to you and only you and what you want and nothing else.
Luke 14:33 "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

Luke 18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."
"
Matthew 19: 28-29 "28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

Matthew 19:21 "21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Matthew 13: 22 "22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful."
----------------------------------
He automatically assumes that jesus existed without the slightest shred of proof, doesn't present it, and expects everybody to believe that jesus did exist.
- jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
- The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
- Did jesus Exist?
- Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
- Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years?") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
- The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, but scrap all the mythology)
- Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
- Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark!!!) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
- What did jesus do for you?

Now he asks "Why do "you" believe in jesus? Why do "you" as a christian believe in jesus? What are "your" motivations? Well due to the fact that I am not a christian, thankfully, and rightly so, that question has no legitimate answer because I do not believe in terrorism.
"Do you believe because your mother believes, because your father believes? Those are good reasons." No---they---are---not. Believe because YOU have done your proper research and because it is the right thing for YOU to do. Sheesh. Pathetic.
"My deepest desire is that you buy the book." Wow. So money is his prime concern. Pathetic and hideous. Strike 1.
Then the idiot gets into prayer and makes an attempt into thanking the lord for the scriptures ans gospels. IS HE SERIOUS when in no possible way, if reasonably intelligent would his god ---ever--- choose text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible. Strike 2.
"I think all 3 of these are wrong. And I want to tell you why." So he's going against every single christian scholar that there is, atheist, or whoever. Strike 3. Enough. Especially when you have solved nothing that has been previously brought to your attention.

Now did you watch that video that you presented me with? If so in which I highly doubt, what exactly did you get out of it?
YeshuaBought

Con

I worship Jesus, not money.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@YeshuaBought - This debate was ---never--- about "salvation". Even so, you lost that one. You were brutally raped, twice according to you, in which your christ stood around and did nothing. So did your god. They---let---them---happen. And yet you cannot even prove that either of them exists. I guess you want to be raped for a third time and more. Is that what you want? No! Of course not! After all your defense is the excuse for the belief in your christ. So where has this gotten you within you life except within your SCREAMING grief? Don't you dare tell me or anyone that you are "happy" either. There's no solution to what you went through is either. But I have known 2 who were raped brutally by their stepfathers as children. One from 4 years old all the way up until 17 years old sometimes twice per week. And that was only the start of her horrors. She then get married, has a kid, gets a divorce, the state takes the kid. She attempts suicide by jumping off a high dive into a pool with no water. She survives! But it breaks her back so she can barely walk. Naturally the hospitals will not give her pain killers to kill the pain. So she starts to works the streets so she can get some cocaine and crack because it will kill the pain. She then gets AIDS and dies. I seriously doubt if she had a happy week in her life. I asked her what she wanted most in life and she said "a family". now in me not telling you of the other, a lifelong friend of mine told me he worked in mental institutions and would watch over everybody... he told me of someone who was raped so bad by her father that her a$$ turned into her vagina. Now you try and imagine that for one horrifying moment in your life. I can't. So since you believe in you god, he KNOWINGLY created both, KNOWING how both would suffer imaginably. Yeah YOUR god LOVES suffering and pain, otherwise he---would---not---create---it. This god also KNOWINGLY created you to suffer through unimaginable pain. Its that simple.
Posted by YeshuaBought 2 years ago
YeshuaBought
I congratulate my opponent for winning and hope to debate them in the future. It can be hard to accept salvation without works if we have not heard the concept, and Shabbat shalom.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
Congratulations, backward buddy. Looks like you're going to win a second time!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RMTheSupreme 2 years ago
RMTheSupreme
backwardsedenYeshuaBoughtTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Nowhere in Con's entire debate do they explain why the resolution is false, only why Christianity is true. Con keeps saying how important the New Testament is and Jesus saved her but that disproves nothing of the resolution in itself.

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