The Instigator
backwardseden
Con (against)
The Contender
kyle_16129
Pro (for)

Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 933 times Debate No: 117350
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Con

Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

Yes, They are binding forever.
Yes. Thus jesus is false, Christianity is false, The NT is false.

The laws are an everlasting covenant, For a thousand generations, Always and forever. That means that nobody, Especially a piddling little squalor of a sideman's arm of god, Namely christ can change them. Not for any reason. Not ever.
* The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, Making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, And is profitable for doctrine, For reproof, For correction, For instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
* Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Proverbs 30:5
* The grass withereth, The flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8
* Know therefore that the LORD thy God, He is God, The faithful God, Which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Deuteronomy 7:9
* Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, And keep his charge, And his statutes, And his judgments, And his commandments, Alway. Deuteronomy 11:1
* Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. . . An everlasting covenant. 1 Chronicles 16:15
* Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Psalm 119:151-2
* Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160

God will curse you if you don't obey his commandments.
* Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, If ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, Which I command you this day: And a curse, If ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Keeping the commandments is the whole duty of every human.
* Fear God, And keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

Remember (and obey) the law of Moses.
* Remember ye the law of Moses. Malachi 4:4

Jesus instructed his followers to obey all of the commandments.
* Till heaven and earth pass, One jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, Till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, And shall teach men so, He shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19
* It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, Than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:17
* One came and said unto him, Good Master, What good thing shall I do, That I may have eternal life? And he said unto him. . . If thou wilt enter into life, Keep the commandments. Luke 19:16-17

And even Paul seemed to agree with Jesus on this (sometimes).
* The doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13
* Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, We establish the law. Romans 3:31


No, They were only temporary.
After the birth of John the Baptist the laws no longer applied.
* The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached. Luke 16:16

* People are justfied by faith. The law doesn't matter.
* Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

If you've got grace, You don't need to obey the law.
* Ye are not under the law, But under grace. Romans 6:14

Jesus's body made you dead to God's laws.
* Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ. . . . We are delivered from the law, That being dead. Romans 7:4, 6

Believe in Jesus and you can ignore the law.
* Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4

Jesus saved you from the curse of God's laws.
* Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law. Galatians 3:13

The laws are were meant to teach you about Jesus. Once you believe, You can ignore the laws.
* Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, That we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, We are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:24-25

Ignore God's law. Be led by the Spirit instead.
* But if ye be led of the Spirit, Ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Jesus destroyed the laws with his flesh, Nailing them to his cross.
* Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, Even the law of commandments contained in ordinances. Ephesians 2:15
* Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances. . . Nailing it to his cross. Colossians 2:14

Now notice one thing, Just one for your bearded eye that has no ability to see, With all the NT "christian" laws that supposedly made christians, Christians, How many of them were approved by your god? If you"ve answered 0, Then you"ve answered correctly. Thus "the law" DOES NOT EXIST. Its god that matters here and not an oafing cow christ who claimed himself to be the terrorist king of the swastika beach WITHOUT GOD"S PERMISSION. Thus jesus was false (if he ever even existed), Christianity is false and the entire NT is false. And since your god did not approve of any of "the law" in the NT, Then your god"s laws stands firm from the OT, Such as the stoning of gays, Death to those that blaspheme, Death to those that curse at their parents (which is also a OT and NT law), Death to those that work on the sabbath so jesus should have also been rightly butchered by that law, Death to those that commit adultery, Death to those that do not love and or worship god and or worship different gods etc etc etc like it or not, Too bad if you don"t.

RULES:
Prove that the OT laws are false. That would obviously mean that you would have to prove that god is false from the OT and that the laws of the NT are correct which would mean that god"s understudy, Christ is correct, Thus you do not believe in god, And you believe in christ in which case is a massive hypocritical contradiction because you cannot prove that either of them has ever existed. You would also have to prove "what law" that undermines the OT laws? And exactly to the letter WHICH LAWS of the OT are to be no longer followed? All of them? If its all of them, Then you would have to prove ALL jews from all over the world throughout history are incorrect also. Good muck! Oh sorry. I meant to say Good luck! Yeah that's it. A deliberate miss-steak on my part.

Here"s how I run things. . . If there is the slightest hint of you inventing excuses from something in which you clearly know nothing about, Especially when its the subject in which you claim to professing you have knowledge upon, Namely this one, And you really don"t, And yet you pretend that you do by coming up with invented excuses and or flat out lying, I will insult you with my brand of insults that are original, Funny, Stupid, Deranged and walls to the ball insane, Unless those excuses are so far fetched that they are clearly pulled off from your groin to be a groin pull from the gold-i-lox area to keep scientists looking for other planets, Then all bets are truly off and I may end the debate right then and there because I DO KNOW my stuff, Whereas most don"t.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
kyle_16129

Pro

Yes, The stories and traditions of the old testament are still very active in Christianity and Jewish theology. Jesus Christ never said to void all of God's previous work (as this would be ridiculous) and actually endorsed all of the old testament as the true word of God.

1. Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, Until heaven and earth disappear, Not the smallest letter, Not the least stroke or a pen, Will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)-[1]. As you can see hear, Without taking anything into advanced context, It appears that Jesus is endorsing the old testament with modern day validity

2. If Christian's actually endorsed the traditions they were told to do, Then polygamy would be legal in all Christian countries (this includes America)

3. If Christian's practiced the old testament, Then they would have sex slaves, . Just like the Quaran teaches Muslims how to take care of there sex slaves which is at the height of controversy today, The Bible teaches it too. A man should not have sex with a slave if she is betrothed to another man - but if they do, She is to be scourged (beaten) and he must sacrifice a sheep (Leviticus 19:20-22, KJV). -[1]

4. There are also bizarre teachings and stories such as this one. If a brother dies with no children, It becomes a man"s duty to impregnate the brother"s widow. Onan is struck dead by God because he prefers to spill his seed on the ground rather than providing offspring for his brother (Genesis 38:8-10). A New Testament story (Matthew 22:24-28) shows that the tradition has survived. -[1]

5. Finally, Like Islam, All that Christianity is is an offshoot of the judicial church. The same violent stories are in both the Quaran and the Bible. Abraham is considered the father of Jewdiism, Christianity, & Islam. After seven childless decades, Abraham"s frustrated wife Sarah says, "Go, Sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her. " Her slave, Hagar, Becomes pregnant. Two generations later, The sister-wives of Jacob repeatedly send their slaves to him, Each trying to produce more sons than the other (Genesis 30:1-22). -[1] So overall, The Old Testament or the bigger part of the Bible is totally okay with sexually abusing woman.

In conclusion, If you are a Christian struggling to make a decision of whether or not to stay in that religion, Do your research, Odds are you won't be a Christian much longer.

[1]-https://www. Independent. Co. Uk/life-style/love-sex/what-marriage-would-look-like-if-we-actually-followed-the-bible-10484198. Html
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Con

"Jesus Christ never said to void all of God's previous work (as this would be ridiculous) and actually endorsed all of the old testament as the true word of God. " Well that"s 100% false. Chapters and verses only please.

1. Has nothing to do with anything. See RD1 in which you clearly didn"t read "The laws are an everlasting covenant"" and so on and all the verses below it. God"s word is "perfect" and thus cannot be changed by anyone except by god. Jesus was not god and was a false prophet thus christianity is false, Jesus is false, The NT is false. . Regardless jesus nor god can be proved.

2. "If Christian's actually endorsed the traditions they were told to do, " christians were not told to endorse any traditions as christ was a false messiah.

3. "If Christian's practiced the old testament, Then they would have sex slaves, " Wow. You don"t know your bible at all. Slavery is endorsed throughout the bible and was never detoured by god or christ. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors?
god endorses slavery in his bible (only some) OT EX 21 the entire chapter especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting, LV 25:39, LV 25:42, LV 25: 44-46, DT 15: 12-15, DT 23: 14-16, NT
* Matthew 18:25 "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, His lord commanded him to be sold, And his wife, And children, And all that he had, And payment to be made. "
* Ephesians 6: 5-8 "Servants, Be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, With fear and trembling, In singleness of your heart, As unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, As menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, Doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, As to the Lord, And not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, The same shall he receive of the Lord, Whether he be bond or free. "
* Colossians 3:22-24 "Servants, Obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, As menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, Fearing God; 23 And whatsoever ye do, Do it heartily, As to the Lord, And not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
* Titus 2:9-10 "Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, And to please them well in all things; not answering again; 10 Not purloining, But shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. "
* 1 Peter 2: 18-21 "Servants, Be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, But also to the froward. 19 For this is thankworthy, If a man for conscience toward God endure grief, Suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, If, When ye be buffeted for your faults, Ye shall take it patiently? But if, When ye do well, And suffer for it, Ye take it patiently, This is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, Leaving us an example, That ye should follow his steps:

Who cares about the Quran? It has nothing to do with this debate.

4. Yeah. And?

5. "The Old Testament or the bigger part of the Bible is totally okay with sexually abusing woman. " Well garsh. Duh. The NT there"s the degradation and humiliation of women.
* 1 Corinthians 14:24 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. "
* 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, Nor to usurp authority over the man, But to be in silence. "

"In conclusion, If you are a Christian (well there"s no such a thing as being a christian) struggling to make a decision of whether or not to stay in that religion, Do your research, Odds are you won't be a Christian much longer. " Oh how true that is.
kyle_16129

Pro

If Christian's practiced the old testament, Then they would have sex slaves, " Wow. You don"t know your bible at all. Slavery is endorsed throughout the bible and was never detoured by god or christ.

1. Yes, That is correct, As stated before, Jesus, Whether false prophet or not, Did not ever endorse ending the practices of the old testament. I figured that one horrific verse such as this one. A man should not have sex with a slave if she is betrothed to another man - but if they do, She is to be scourged (beaten) and he must sacrifice a sheep (Leviticus 19:20-22, KJV), Would be more than enough to dismiss the rest of the Bible as lies.

Jesus Christ never said to void all of God's previous work (as this would be ridiculous) and actually endorsed all of the old testament as the true word of God. " Well that"s 100% false. Chapters and verses only please. I did use a verse, I'll repost it again below.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, Until heaven and earth disappear, Not the smallest letter, Not the least stroke or a pen, Will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)-[1]

You don't need to rely on text from books thousands of years ago to use common sense. It absolutely would be obserd if an all powerful, All loving God would change. He would always be good and never would approve of the teachings and practices of the old testament if he had any moral integrity whatsoever. For that reason alone you can rationally conclude that God (at least not this god) exists

Furthermore using texts that have been interpreted from Greek thousands of years ago to to modern day english is not always an accurate or good way to judge what something says or truly means. Humans can have a hard time making sense of what some ENGLISH text means from shakespeare. You can obviously identify that English is much different in modern day America than what it was even with the founding fathers when they wrote the declaration of Independence and other documents.

However there are some verses (including the ones stated above) that are very clear, And cannot easily be misinterpreted due to the situations it is adressing and commands it is giving.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Con

You really an atheist? Nope.

Btw and you do get that there"s no proof for christ having ever existed. So if you really want to get down to it, There"s no proof, Absolutely none that his daddy, Namely god has ever existed as well. So that could and perhaps should really end this debate right there.

1. "Jesus, Whether false prophet or not, Did not ever endorse ending the practices of the old testament. " Oh yes he most certainly did. He ended the practice of working on the sabbath. Do you really want me to post verses on that?

The entire bible is lies. Starting with genesis 1:1 as none of it can be proved.

There"s a lot of horrific verses in the bible. Bringing one to light solves nothing. Why? Because the most horrific verses by far are what are done with children. The one you brought up is tinker toy bird stuffing at a nun"s pep rally where they teach how to bake and fry water.
* 2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, And I will take thy wives before thine eyes, And give them unto thy neighbour, And he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, And before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 14 Howbeit, Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. From evilbible. Com [The child dies seven days later. ] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, Really sick! (rape)
* Numbers 31:17-18 "17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, And kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, That have not known a man by lying with him, Keep alive for yourselves. " (rape)
* Leviticus 26:21-22 "And if ye walk contrary unto me, And will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, Which shall rob you of your children, And destroy your cattle, And make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. " Rob you of your children?
* Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, And their women with child shall be ripped up. " Wow. Such a nice gentle caring god who is all warm and fuzzy inside. This book should clearly be read to children - correct? (babies) (abortion)
* 2 Kings 15:16 "Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, And all that were therein, And the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, Therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up. " (abortion)
* 2 Kings 6: 28-29 "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, That we may eat him to day, And we will eat my son to morrow. 29 So we boiled my son, And did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, That we may eat him: and she hath hid her son. " (cannibalism)

That"s just a few. There"s plenty more. This printed god of the bible is a sick demented parasite. There"s really no other way of looking at it.
OK we"re going to go through this once again. Pay attention closely. This was stated in RD1 since you did not pay attention once again in RD I shall repeat myself. And then I shall refute the verses regardless for your t. P. Brain.
Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?
Yes, They are binding forever.
Yes. Thus jesus is false, Christianity is false, The NT is false.

The laws are an everlasting covenant, For a thousand generations, Always and forever. That means that nobody, Especially a piddling little squalor of a sideman's arm of god, Namely christ can change them. Not for any reason. Not ever.
* The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, Making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, And is profitable for doctrine, For reproof, For correction, For instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
* Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Proverbs 30:5
* The grass withereth, The flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8
* Know therefore that the LORD thy God, He is God, The faithful God, Which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Deuteronomy 7:9
* Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, And keep his charge, And his statutes, And his judgments, And his commandments, Alway. Deuteronomy 11:1
* Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. . . An everlasting covenant. 1 Chronicles 16:15
* Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Psalm 119:151-2
* Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160

Now do you understand that? There"s nothing to fulfill since god"s word is perfect. Got it?
"Jesus Christ never said to void all of God's previous work (as this would be ridiculous) and actually endorsed all of the old testament as the true word of God. " Well that"s 100% false. Chapters and verses only please. The verse you used are not saying ---anything--- close to that. Not even close. Let"s break this down"
Well first of all I have no idea as to which abomination of a translation you are using, So we"ll scrap it and use the KJV (see that"s one reason why this god, If he even existed in which there"s a 0% proof of and this is why he doesn"t exist is because of translations like these that have nothing to do with each other with translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead languages with a 0% chance whatsoever for any of it to be traced back to the original in which no original exists in the first place. So nobody is interpreting correctly. And that"s just one common sense reason why this so-called god would ---never---use text, The worst form of communication possible to god)
Think not that I am come to destroy the law (well which "perfect" law? Regardless christ did destroy at least one "perfect" law. He destroyed working on the sabbath and regardless there was more than one law in the OT. There were LOTS of anal laws in the ), Or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, But to fulfil (fulfil one "perfect" law in which he could not do because he was NOT god and did not have the power to change god"s "perfect" laws). 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, One jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (again there"s a whole lot more than ONE law in the OT), Till all be fulfilled (all---"perfect"---laws in which christ had no right to change because he was---not---god, Thus could NOT fulfill. ) The end.

"You don't need to rely on text from books thousands of years ago to use common sense. It absolutely would be obserd if an all powerful, All loving God would change. He would always be good and never would approve of the teachings and practices of the old testament if he had any moral integrity whatsoever. For that reason alone you can rationally conclude that God (at least not this god) exists. " Well that"s a stupid statement. The NT is far more immoral that the OT. In the NT you have all this corrupt sinning going on, You have cursing at your parents still warranting death, You still have slavery and lots of it, Introduced is the concept of hell, There"s crucifixions galore. You have the end of the world as being taught as being a "good" thing. And the best part about it is you have suffering is being taught as being a very good thing. Now you tell me or anyone what can children learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly.

"Furthermore using texts that have been interpreted from Greek thousands of years ago to to modern day english is not always an accurate or good way to judge what something says or truly means. Humans can have a hard time making sense of what some ENGLISH text means from shakespeare. You can obviously identify that English is much different in modern day America than what it was even with the founding fathers when they wrote the declaration of Independence and other documents. " Very good! You are catching on. Its why no genuine god of the bible would ---ever--- use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.

"However there are some verses (including the ones stated above) that are very clear, " and yet you blew it didn"t yah. Nah. There"s no chance you are an atheist. Just a cut up little silly pity.

Time for my nap.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Bunk. Goyim never accepted the Torah revelation at Sinai.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@BertrandsTeapot - Well so-called christians have this nasty habit of making things up as they go along to whatever suits their wants, Needs and desires. And the funny thing is they can't prove a word of it to be true - according to their bible.
Posted by BertrandsTeapot 3 years ago
BertrandsTeapot
I don't really see how you can use the New Testament to prove anything about the superfluity of the Old Testament
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