The Instigator
Eclyptic
Pro (for)
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The Contender
PanTurtle
Con (against)
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Are the lyrics of popular music harmful to children"s development?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2021 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 441 times Debate No: 127464
Debate Rounds (3)
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Eclyptic

Pro

I think that these days the messages that music conveys are very negative. These negative messages are what influence young children to do horrible things when they grow up. These artists put horrible things in a positive light in their songs, And this should not be supported.
PanTurtle

Con

Hello! I accept this debate challenge.
I would like to start out by saying that yes, Some songs do convey negative messages, But it isn't anything new. People have always put messages into their music, And naturally, Some of those messages are not positive. But hearing songs talk about things won't affect them any more than overhearing someone just say those things in a normal conversation.
Most songs in this generation actually carry positive messages. I will provide many examples, As well as the meanings and release dates of the song.

"Sometimes it lasts in love, But sometimes it hurts instead" - Someone Like You, By Adele, 2011 - This song is about missing someone who you were in love with, But your relationship ended. This lyric is saying that sometimes love can last, But it can also hurt.

"Nothing's gonna hurt you the way that words do/When they settle 'neath your skin/Kept on the inside and no sunlight/Sometimes a shadow wins" - Brave, By Sara Bareilles, 2013 - This song is about standing up for yourself, And that you are not the only one who has gone through what you are. This lyric in specific speaks about how much words can hurt you when they get to you, And how things get worse when you don't say anything.

"And I, I gotta be strong/Just keep pushing on, 'cause/There's always gonna be another mountain/I'm always gonna wanna make it move/Always gonna be an uphill battle/Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose" - The Climb, By Miley Cyrus, 2009 - This song is about pushing through the challenges that are in the way of your goals. This lyric talks about how there will always be another obstacle, And sometimes you won't be able to overcome them, And that they will always be hard.

There are many other songs that I could mention, But that would take a week to write, And I only have three days.
Songs that seem to be about negative things, I. E. Depression, Are helpful to so many people. They let them know that they are not alone, And give them another way to express how they feel. They can be comforting.
One example of this is the song 'Kitchen Sink' by Twenty "ne Pil"ts, From the discontinued album Regional at Best.
"I'm a kitchen sink, You don't know what that means/Because a kitchen sink to you/Is not a kitchen sink to me, Ok friend? /Are you searching for purpose? /Then write something, Yeah it might be worthless/Then paint something then, It might be wordless/Pointless curses, Nonsense verses/You'll see purpose start to surface/No one else is dealing with your demons/Meaning maybe defeating them/Could be the beginning of your meaning, Friend" - 2011 - Kitchen Sink
This lyric is about all the negative feelings people have, And how while people may seem to have the same problems, No one is exactly the same, As said with 'A kitchen sink to you is not a kitchen sink to me'. The song also has lyrics about how things that may seem worthless at first can help you find a purpose. Now for 'No one else is dealing with your demons/Meaning maybe defeating them/Could be the beginning of your meaning, Friend'. This directly states that no one else is dealing with the same demons that you are, But you can overcome them and find your meaning.

I have done my best to disprove your points and make some of my own. Your turn for rebuttle.
Debate Round No. 1
Eclyptic

Pro

Hello PanTurtle, And thank you for being kind. The dude I had in my last debate was very rude. If there ever is a time where I come off as rude, I am sorry and I want you to know that was unintentional.

"hearing songs talk about things won't affect them any more than overhearing someone just say those things in a normal conversation. " - PanTurtle

Ah, Yes and I agree. However, People listen to songs multiple times, They are constantly listening to the negative message that the artist is trying to convey. In a conversation, They wouldn't hear it as often as when they listen to a song with a horrible message. These days with TIKTOK and other social media apps promoting these songs with horrible messages, It becomes very hard to avoid these songs.

"Most songs in this generation actually carry positive messages. "- Panturtle

For this I will have to disagree. If you listen to the radio it is very hard to avoid listening to songs with negative messages here are my examples.

"Boy I'm tryna meet your mama On a Sunday Then make a lotta love On a Monday (Ah, Ah) Never need no (No) No one else, Babe 'Cause I'll be Switching the positions for you Cooking in the kitchen and I'm in the bedroom"- positions, Ariana Grande, 2020

"Just gimme them babies" -34+35, Ariana Grande, 2020 (If you add 34+35 together you would know what the song is about)

WAP, Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion, 2020 (if you know what WAP stands for you don't even need the lyrics to know that it is a negative message song) (also this song is very popular on TIKTOK which makes it hard to avoid)

"Do that, Do that, Baby, All night long" And I'ma turn off all my phones You know I hate it when I'm left on read But he make it all up in the bed"- Like that Doja Cat 2020

"Don't call me "Angel" when I get undressed"- Don't call me angel, Miley Cyrus, Lana Del Ray, Ariana Grande, 2019

" Have you ever met a real _____ rockstar? "- Dababy, Rockstar, 2020

"Might-seduce-your-dad type"- Billie Eilish, 2019, Bad Guy

"You're cute enough to f*** with me tonight" "Lookin' at the table all I see is weed" "Cocaine and drinking with your friends"
- LIL NAS X, MONTERO (CALL ME BY YOUR NAME), 2021( btw, This song was rated #1 for pop or smth)

Yes, I know there are plenty of positive songs out there, But these days the most popular artists are the ones that have horrible messages. Yes, Songs like "Dynamite", BTS, 2020, Convey positive messages, But the majority of the songs these days have a horrible, Twisted message if you see it's meaning. Yes, There are a good number of songs with beautiful messages, That tell you that you are enough, That you have meaning, But still, If you look on the most popular list you will see the majority of songs have negative messages. And when children look up to these popular artists and aspire to be like them, I think that is harmful towards their development.

@PanTurtle I am so excited to hear your response. You had a very good argument, And it took me a while to try and disprove them. Take care in the meantime. :)
PanTurtle

Con

Okay, So apparently my argument hadn't posted, Which sucks, Since I spent half an hour typing it. I sadly do not have time to retype everything, But I'll do my best to put in the basics of what I said.

When I look at the current top 100 songs, I see that most of them have a message about love.

The song "Don't Call Me Angel" was for the movie "Charlie's Angels", Which is rated PG-13.

Not all music is made for kids. Lots of the songs that you are talking about seem to be aimed at adults.

If there is a song in the radio that you feel carries a negative message, You can switch the station.

When I look up people, I don't aspire to be like someone just because I like their music, Or any books they have written, Or the art they make. I aspire to be like people who are like me.

Bad Guy was written by Billie Eilish and her brother when they were 17-18 and 21-22 respectively. This is the type of song I would expect from people around that age. Like, One being a young adult and the other being a teenager, I would expect some undertones that are not kid friendly.

In my opinion, Talking about one of the steps in human reproduction is not negative, Only age-specific.

If kids look up some of the people you mentioned, They can find people like them. People that went through the same struggle they are and still became successful.

For example, LILNAS X's parents separated when he was six, And after spending 3 years with his mother in a housing project, He went to live with his father. ('It Feels Like I"m Chosen to Do This. " Inside the Record-Breaking Rise of Lil Nas X
from Time)

Miley Cyrus was born with supraventricular tachycardia. (Miley Cyrus Opens Up About Heart Condition from MTV News)

Ariana Grande's parents separated when she was around ten years old. (Billboard Cover: Ariana Grande on Fame, Freddy Krueger and Her Freaky Past from Billboard)

And many top songs are made by good people with inspiring lives, Like "Stressed Out" by Twenty One Pilots, Which never dropped below 37 in the charts the year of its release. The people who wrote that song, Specifically the vocalist, Have inspiring lives. I recommend looking them up.

This is the basics of what I had typed. I remember that I had had a hard time rebutting you.
Sorry that the last person that you debated against was rude. Stay safe!

-PanTurtle
Debate Round No. 2
Eclyptic

Pro

"When I look at the current top 100 songs, I see most of them have a message about love" - PanTurtle

Is it really about love or is it about s3x? Do these songs have profanity because I know that a majority of them do. I guess positions and 34+35 by Ariana Grande counts as a love song but I wouldn"t exactly deem this as positive. (btw they are both on the top 50 songs)

"The song "Don't Call Me Angel" was for the movie "Charlie's Angels", Which is rated PG-13. "- PanTurtle

Ah, Yes but it still proves that Miley Cyrus isn"t exactly a good role-model.

"Not all music is made for kids. Lots of the songs that you are talking about seem to be aimed at adults. "- PanTurtle

Yes, However I feel that our culture pressures people into doing social media. Social media is a big part of the american culture. Additionally, These apps are infested with these adult-aimed songs. Polluting children"s brains.

"When I look up to people, I don"t aspire to be like someone just because I like their music, Or any books they have written, Or the art they make" - PanTurtle

Ah, Most people are different. When kids like a certain artist"s music what I have noticed is that they usually sub-consciously deem him or her as cool. After all they"re not gonna listen to songs sung by losers. Additionally, When these kids deem artists as cool they aspire to be like them because well, They"re cool.

"Bad Guy was written by Billie Eilish and her brother when they were 17-18 and 21-22 respectively. This is the type of song I would expect from people around that age. Like, One being a young adult and the other being a teenager, I would expect some undertones that are not kid friendly. " - PanTurtle

I"ve heard this particular song everywhere from the store, Social media, Radio, Etc. It becomes extremely difficult to avoid listening to this song when our culture is practically blasing this song into our faces. Over time, The message in the song, Whether you like it or not, Will get into people"s heads. Including children"s heads.

"In my opinion, Talking about one of the steps in human reproduction is not negative, Only age-specific. " - PanTurtle

So, If someone sings about having s3x with a prostitute, Which is illegal in most states, Or having s3x with a child, Or how they b@ng 10 h03s a day, Etc, That isn"t negative? Also, These songs use vulgar language like "P*ssy" and "D*ck" or "b@nging" or" f*cking", Etc (pls excuse my french). I find it hard to imagine those good role-models that parents want their children to be like listening to these songs.

"If kids look up some of the people you mentioned, They can find people like them. People that went through the same struggle they are and still became successful. " - PanTurtle

Yes, These people were able to overcome these impediments in their lives and were able to accomplish fame and glory. However, Ariana Grande in her song "break up with your girlfriend because I am bored" puts cheating in a positive light. Also, LIL NAS X says the "n word" in his song "MONTERO". There are many African-Americans that I know that would take offense to that. Regardless of his ethnicity, LIL NAS X is still using a word that is still derogatory towards African-Americans, And him being black does not excuse that it is still offensive. Miley Cyrus in her song "Wrecking ball" sits on the wrecking ball naked. This means that she promotes girls posting their naked bodies on the internet. These people are not good role-models.

". . . Stressed out by twenty one pilots" " I recommend looking them up" - Panturtle

That song is one of my favorites, But this song debuted how many years ago? Yes thay have a positive message, But they aren"t even on the top 100 songs anymore. Wish I could turn back time to the good dope days then there weren"t as many songs with horrible messages with artists that are horrible role-models ;).

You have been a formidable adversary, And as you would say it "your turn for rebuttal"
Have a blessed day! -Eclyptic
PanTurtle

Con

The final round. Always one of my favorite parts of a debate.

First, As a member of the Clique(name for fans of Twenty One Pilots), I am going to dispute your claim that no Twenty One Pilots songs are in the top 100.
Their most recent song, Released this month, Has peaked at spot 87 in the US overall, And spot 2 in Alternative.
"Shy Away" did not enter the NZ Top 40 Singles Chart, But peaked at number 10 on the NZ Hot Singles Chart.
The song Level of Concern, Released mid-2020, Peaked at 23 in the US and 1 in both Alternative and Rock.
It has the certifications of RIAA Gold and MC Gold.

For your statement about LIL NAS X saying the N word, Quote, "him being black does not excuse that it is still offensive", I site the CNN article 'Your big questions about race, Answered', Specifically the section labeled 'How We Talk About Race'.
Quote, "There is an undeniable double standard in the use of the n-word. Some Black people freely use it in intimate conversations with one another. Black hip-hop artists use it in their lyrics. Black comedians such as Richard Pryor and Chris Rock have been notorious for using the n-word in their stand-up acts. So why then, Is it okay for Black people to use it and not Whites? There"s no one answer to that question. Some Black people say the word is too repulsive to use in any context, Even by other Black folks. They claim that using it reflects "internalized oppression": Black people unwittingly accepting racist stereotypes. But other Black people say they can use the n-word because they have "reclaimed" it and taken the sting out of a slur by using the word as a term of endearment. "

Now for my next rebuttal. Quote, "Or how they b@ng 10 h03s a day".
My argument will quote just one lyric.
"Lock up ya daughters and horses, Of course
It's hard to have intercourse over four sets of corsets"
Can you guess where this lyric about human intercourse, In which some also see a message regarding intercourse with horses, Is from?

The Broadway Musical 'Hamilton'.

You also stated that, Quote, "proves that Miley Cyrus isn"t exactly a good role-model"
Here are some facts on her.
She started out playing the lead role in Hannah Montana: The Movie (2009)
She is an advocate for animal rights
She founded the non-prophet organization 'Happy Hippie Foundation', Which focuses on the homeless and on the LGBTQIA+ community, The latter of which she is a part of.
In 2015, She was one of the nine runner-ups for The Advocate's Person of the Year. (Person of the Year: The Finalists on Advocate. Com)

"Is it really about love or is it about s3x? Do these songs have profanity because I know that a majority of them do. "
Levitating by Dua Lipa Featuring DaBaby is number 6 on the charts. This song has no profanity, And this version of the song, Which is the one on the charts, Has no mention of anything that may referance human intercourse.
Love Story by Taylor Swift is in spot 52, And her audience is mainly young females. This song has no mention of human intercourse, And has no profanity.

The song "Bad Guy" does not have any specific mention of intercourse. Cambridge dictionary has two definitions of seduce, And either one could fit with it's use in the song. My favorite definition, And the one that I learned first, Is this: "to persuade or cause someone to do something that they would not usually consider doing by being very attractive and difficult to refuse".
Either way, "Bad Guy" has been becoming less popular, With Billie's newest song "Therefore I Am" taking it's place, Being 24th in the rankings.

"So, If someone sings about having s3x with a prostitute, Which is illegal in most states"
The keyword here is 'most'. This is commenting on the fact that there are states that have not made it illegal, And isn't a national crime. Besides, Not everyone who writes music lives in the USA.

"Or having s3x with a child"
I am having trouble finding examples of this in any song. I've even googled 'do any modern songs talk about having s*x with a child'. No results for that. It only gave me songs about adult intercourse.

"These songs use vulgar language like "P*ssy" and "D*ck" or "b@nging" or" f*cking", Etc"
I don't see how the use of slang for human reproductive parts or human intercourse relate to the message the song gives, The same way I don't see how the use of curse words does. Songs with these words can still carry positive messages. For example, The song "Earth", Which is about how people are destroying the Earth and how we need to take care of it, Uses the word for the male reproductive organ and the curse word that can also be defined as 'having human intercourse'. The use of these words does not change the message, It just expresses it in a certain way.

Songs are a product of their time. They always have been, And always will be. Unless a song is about a fictional reality with no basis in the real world, People might have experiances that corrospond to the message in a song. The real world is just as awful, Terrifying, Hateful, And sad as the music that is in it, And just like with current events, The negatives get more attention than the positives. But this is because there is so much good out there that the negativity stands out, And therefore has more attention drawn to it.

One more thing I wish to address before I make my final statement. You said, Quote, "Miley Cyrus in her song "Wrecking ball" sits on the wrecking ball naked. This means that she promotes girls posting their naked bodies on the internet. "
That is not the reason for the nudity. I will rebuttle this with one quote. "Miley said in an interview that this song(Wrecking Ball) is about her ex fiancee, He dumped her and wrecked her, She's also naked to show that he stripped her emotionally naked. "
It is NOT her encoraging people to post nude pictures of themselves online.

In conclusion, The lyrics of popular music is not harmful to a child's development. I am a teenager, And I grew up hearing popular music on the radio. Now, I have advocated for many things in my local community, Including how the school board should reflect the schools. I have asked someone running to represent my state in the government questions about their views on trans rights. When the Elementary schools in my district were not getting any recess and being assigned silent lunch more often than not, I spoke to the schoolboard, As well as doing my 6th grade muckraking project on it.
Popular music didn't influence me negatively. It hardly influenced me at all.
What influenced me the most, And still influences me to this day, Are my parents. My dad inspired me to get into debate, And to never give up. My mom inspired me to help people in any way that I can, And to lend my voice to problems that need fixing, No matter how small. Both have shown me that it can be hard to achieve your goals, But you can reach them.
What they taught me was only supported by the music that stuck with me.

It has been a pleasure to debate you, @Eclyptic.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by PanTurtle 2 months ago
PanTurtle
@Eclyptic
Sure! I can link the site, As well as a few of the songs about love as soon as I can.

Can't wait to see your response!

Have an amazing day.

-PanTurtle
Posted by Eclyptic 2 months ago
Eclyptic
Hi @PanTurtle,

"When I look at the current top 100 songs, I see that most of them have a message about love. " - Panturtle

Can you please tell me which songs they are? I can't argue with a generalization. You could just copy/paste the link to the website or just list the songs I'm not picky. Thank you! Have a nice day!
Posted by PanTurtle 2 months ago
PanTurtle
Ah, I put links into my thing. I didn't know that you were not able to do that, As this is my first debate on here.
Posted by PanTurtle 2 months ago
PanTurtle
Nevermind. Whenever I reload, It goes from saying that I am waiting for a responce to giving me the option to post my argument. It does, However, Reset the time I have to post my argument.
Posted by PanTurtle 2 months ago
PanTurtle
Thank you! It worked. I realized that it was because I was using special characters.
Posted by Ihsieman 2 months ago
Ihsieman
Reload the page, You need to reload the page, As it doesn't update while you are doing things.
Posted by PanTurtle 2 months ago
PanTurtle
For some reason, I am not seeing my second argument as being posted. I've posted it three times. What should I do?
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