The Instigator
TouchtheSky
Pro (for)
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Con (against)

As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/11/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 3,594 times Debate No: 113796
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (113)
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TouchtheSky

Pro

Hello there! My name is Mercy. I've seen you debating other people on this site, and I'd like to challenge you in the area of how we should view other people who don't agree with our beliefs.

I am a Christian. I believe in one God, and his son, Jesus, who came to earth to die for our sins. I believe that he paved a way for us to go to heaven even though we don't deserve it, and if we chose not to accept this, we will someday be judged for it. From what I've seen, you believe the same thing.

However, one thing that we do not agree on is how God has called us to treat other people who do not share our beliefs. I'd really love to hear your perspectives on this issue.

Note that this is not a question of whether or not atheists are correct in their beliefs. I hope we can begin this debate having already established our belief in Christianity. The question is whether God calls us to be kind towards them.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

Greetings; I will indeed enjoy our discussion. As a Slave of Christ, God and righteousness, my learning is of God alone. As such it is my obligation to enlighten fellow servants of God in the finer aspects of the one we serve, that they may gain an ever HIGHER view of the supremacy of God and our obligations of service!


Let us look upon your primary question and the topic of Debate- "As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?"
I am aware of the customary view of the Denominations views to this question. I, however am under obligation as are you to heed the word of God over all others ... this includes all Humanity.

Thus, let us look at what God Himself "THINKS" of the Athiest? We wish to be obedient to Christ and God, thus it is written:

Romans 1 God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


Here God Himself gave them over to impurity ... they are cursed of God! let us review your question?

"As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?" They are CURSED of God Himself ... therefore ... do they?


What of this scripture my sister? Acts 10:34

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

your question again? "As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?" God doesn't ... are we to?

Let us not forget the actions of Jesus to the Pharisees who denied and rejected Him ... true ATHIEST!

The Woes of the Pharisees is a list of criticisms by Jesus against scribes and Pharisees recorded in the Gospels of Luke 11:37–54 and Matthew 23:1–39. Mark 12:35–40 and Luke 20:45–47 also include warnings about scribes. Eight are listed in Matthew, and hence Matthew's version is known as the eight woes.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[c]

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.

17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[d] the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.

19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[e] in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[f] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?


How KIND and respectful was JESUS Himself here? Are you saying Jesus is unkind? of Course not! Righteous anger is their due not respect! But only to the Atheist, not the unbelievers ...


Atheists REJECT God. Unbelievers do not reject God, they merely do not KNOW of God. As you go through the Debate Board, Atheists are identified by their REJECTION of any simblance of a God. They DEMAND proof, but do not look themselves. They spew hatred of God and Christians alike, accusing them of imaginings, hallucinations, ignorance and lack of intelligence for beliveing in something they cannot prove.

This is not the actions of unbelievers, these are the actions of the Condemned of Romans 1. They are to be ignored by the immature believers and left to those like myself, to show them the foolishness of their ways! The HELL that awaits them for lack of intelligence to seek salvation! Do not feel sorry for them, pity them and leave them to the mature believers who are their only chance, by reason of their inability to fool US with their nonsense. We do not fall to their lies. We have TRUTH as our shield, we have The Word as our sword, and we smite them where it hurts to reveal the putridness of their Father the Devil.



So you see my sister, IF we are to follow as example Christ, Apostles and prophets (which I do.) Then we MUST LEARN how they WERE treated by those we follow, and Not as described by teachers who have altered, added to and follow their OWN ways. As do the denominations of the World.


indeed you are required to follow the Scriptures ALONE for all teaching and allow GOD Himself to interpret the meanings behind His word, not heed the interpretations of Men who at onset violate outright the Gospel of God by personally interpreting scripture.


Behold 2 Peter 1:20

20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

Do you need someone to interpret this for you? Of course not it is clear. We are not to interpret Gods Word, we are to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the meanings. it says so here.


Phillipians 3:15

15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

1 John 2:27

"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him."

Again greetings, I await your response little sister.

your elder in Christ.










Debate Round No. 1
TouchtheSky

Pro

Thank you so much for your quick response! I agree with you that as followers of Christ, it is our duty to follow him alone- not man. I hope that through this debate, we can seek to find the truth behind his words and dive into what God has in store for us.

In general, I try not to use the Bible as a source, but in this case, as we're both Christians and the debate is discussing the issue as it applies to followers of Jesus, I'm going to assume that both of us will view the Bible as the word of God. So just like you did, I'll be using Bible verses as a primary source.

Before we begin, I'd like to begin by defining the terms, as I believe not doing so can lead to confusion and vague arguments. I hope we can agree on both of these definitions:

There are multiple definitions of 'respect'. In some contexts, respect can mean admiration towards a person because of their ideals. However, in this case, I don't want 'respect' to be synonymous with 'admiration'. In the case of atheism, I don't agree with atheists, and I think it would be wrong to admire atheism, but I still want to respect it and show consideration for it. So this is the definition that I propose:

A polite attitude towards someone or something that you consider important [1].

And this is the definition that I propose for 'atheist':

Someone who believes that God does not exist [2].

With that aside, let's go on to Romans 1, where we'll evaluate God's own opinion of atheism.

Firstly, I'd like to address the context of Romans 1. When you look closely at the verse, you see that Paul was not addressing atheists. Paul says that God's wrath was revealed towards ALL of the godlessness and wickedness of the people who suppressed the truth. This includes atheists and theists alike- after all, Paul goes on to say that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God [3]. It is right and good that God should be angry towards all sin- if God did not feel anger, he would not be just and fair towards humanity. However, this does not mean that God was cruel and disrespectful- in fact, God's standard of respect always stayed the same. Ephesians 12:12-14 says this:

Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility. [4]

Just like Romans, this verse also paints a tragic picture of how mankind turned itself away from God, and had no hope without God. But it goes on to talk about the love that God had for them despite that, and he sent Jesus to buy them back and save them. It says that he broke the wall of hostility, and made us all one. Jesus didn't want us to treat each other with bitterness and anger- he came to tear our anger apart.

Romans 1 addresses how mankind turned away from God, and how God was justly angry because of it. But Ephesians 2 finishes the story by addressing how God didn't just sit there and fume- he sent his son to break the bonds of hostility and anger [5].

I don't know where you got that reference from Acts 10:34, because that's not what the verse says at all, and it is, frankly, quite ridiculous. Acts 10:34 says, "Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism". [6] And in fact, this actually proves my point about God not showing favoritism to atheists over theists. So I don't know what you mean about 'God being no respecter of persons'. Can you tell me what translation you used?

You brought up the eight woes as evidence that Jesus did not show respect and kindness to athiests. In this passage, Jesus strongly rebukes the Pharisees actions and renounces them in front of a large crowd of people. His words are very harsh- there can be no doubt about that. But the more I look at that passage, the more convinced I am that Jesus' harsh attitude wasn't cruelty- he wasn't just throwing a tempter tantrum. In verse 37, Jesus discusses his strong desire to bring the people to safety, that they can know him and follow him. Jesus wants his people to come to him and find forgiveness, because he loves them and cares for them. Jesus was there so that he could show them the way to life, and light, and they weren't listening when he said a polite 'pretty please' [7]. Jesus had to speak strongly to them, because it was the only way that he could get them to listen.

But were these strong words cruel and disrespectful? I don't believe that they were, and I believe that righteous anger, when justified, is something that should be applauded [8]. Also, remember that the word 'woe' would not have been interpreted in the way of a curse or a cruel, heartless word. The Hebrew word for 'woe' was א֫וֹיָה־, or oyah, and contrary to how you portrayed it, it is actually a cry of sorrow [9]. Although it can be used as a curse, people in that time would have heard it more in the sense of mourning or despair, and the word carries the weight of compassionate sorrow (see link 7). So when Jesus said 'woe', he was actually mourning how far the pharisees had fallen from the truth.

With your verses aside, I'd like to give a few of my own for us to discuss:

Jude 1:22
And have mercy on those who doubt. [10]

2 Timothy 2:22-26
So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. [11]

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. [12]

Matthew 5:43-48
You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. [13]

Romans 12:10-21
Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord"s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God"s wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. [14]

Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." [15]

Hebrews 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. [16]

Micah 7:18-19
Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger forever, because he delights in steadfast love. He will again have compassion on us; he will tread our iniquities underfoot. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea. [17]

[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org...
[2] https://dictionary.cambridge.org...
[3] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[4] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[5] https://answersingenesis.org...
[6] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[7] https://www.gotquestions.org...
[8] https://www.christianitytoday.com...
[9] http://biblehub.com...
[10] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[11] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[12] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[13] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[14] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[15] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[16] https://www.biblegateway.com...
[17]https://www.biblegateway.com...
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

I see ...
your statement- "In general, I try not to use the Bible as a source,"

Then you don't KNOW God at all. That will make things ll the more difficult. But we will manage. You see you suffer from lack of relationship with God. Because you do not know Him personally, you have as yet to commit yourself to HIS BELIEFS rather than your own. Not unusual I'm afraid. To date there are 43,000 (THOUSAND) of your kind in the Church of today. It is those spoken of by God in

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Hosea 4:6
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Isaiah 65:2
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;


Psalm 81:11
"But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

Isaiah 30:1
"Woe to the rebellious children," declares the LORD, "Who execute a plan, but not Mine, And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin;

This of course places you ONLY in one of 2 ranks in Heaven;

1 Corinthians 3:14
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

! Corinthians 3:15
If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

Thus you have forfiet Daughtership of God ... by choosing to follow your OWN way.

Yes, I know .... I'm the one whose wrong ... with my 30 years of study with Christ, while you haven't been ALIVE but 13 years altogether.

No matter and no problem. You will learn or you will not, that will be completely up to you?
That you are unaware that 43,000 Denominations CANNOT be correct tells me you have no knowledge of God.

That to is not a problem as I have no DOUBT at all that you are indeed SAVED and a Citizen of Heaven. But that isn't what we are talking about is it? Because that is a free Gift of God. We are NOW talking about YOUR station and position IN HEAVEN itself?

Sadly I must leave town at this time so I can discuss this no firther till tomorrow. However I will return. You of course may say what you will, now that I know you don't know God I will likely ignore you anyway s you know ONLY what man has TOLD you to believe ..... uh-uh no backsies .... yyou said yourself -In general, I try not to use the Bible as a source

That MEANS you have no clue WHO God really is. are you in for a shock. a Good shock!

be back later!






Debate Round No. 2
TouchtheSky

Pro

With all due respect, you didn't address my arguments at all. In the last round, I discussed each of the verses you gave and why they don't prove your point, as well as giving several Bible verses to prove mine. Instead of trying to counter my arguments, you just listed more verses and personally attacked me by challenging my relationship with God in an area completely irrelevant to the context of the debate. However, I will still address your verses and explain why they do not actually prove your point.

Almost all of the verses you gave can be separated into two groups- verses that describe how God is punishing those who have sinned against him (Hosea 4:6, Isaiah 65:2), and verses that describe all of the follies and wickedness that mankind has fallen into (2 Timothy 4:3, Psalm 81:11, Isaiah 30:1). Neither of these proves your point or even addresses it- that atheists do not deserve our respect. The verses in the first group, that talk about God punishing sin, are referring to God's justice and righteous anger- I have already discussed why righteous anger, when justified, is something that I approve of and is not at all synonymous with cruelty or disrespect. In fact, I believe that God rebukes his people out of love. See the facts I gave in the previous round for more information on this.

Your point on me not using the Bible as a primary source is irrelevant, and simply an ad hominem attack. However, to establish my credibility and clarify my position, I'd like to briefly address why I said this at the beginning.

The reason that I don't use the Bible as a primary source is not that I don't like it or don't want a relationship with God. It is simply because to people who don't share my beliefs, the Bible is not reliable as a primary source, and I want to respect this. In some cases, such as the gospels proving Jesus' existence, I'll take the time to try to prove why the gospels are accurate as primary sources, but in most cases, I find that my argument is stronger if it relies on sources that most can agree are fully accurate. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible is God-breathed and inspired by God.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

The debate isn't about your personal beliefs as we ALL know there are 43,000 Denominations of them (beliefs) NONE of which are Gods Beliefs!

This is obvious even to unbelievers and Atheists. So discussing what YOU BELIEVE? is as pointless as it is useless. As it's based on Human knowledge alone therefore clearly contrary to actual scriptures. Assuming of course that you believe as you SHOULD that the Bible IS the inerrant word of God ... meaning there ARE NO contradictions ...and everything you said is contradicting Gods word.

The topic IS "As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?"

ANSWER: NO

Reason: Well, there's simply no point in retyping what has already be stated by scripture, is there?

Thus, let us look at what God Himself "THINKS" of the Athiest? We wish to be obedient to Christ and God, thus it is written:

Romans 1 God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

God has CURSED HUMANITY! All Humanity.


Here God Himself gave them over to impurity ... they are cursed of God! let us review your question?

"As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?" They are CURSED of God Himself! BY scripture reference (personal Christians beliefs not relevant nor allowed).


Acts 10:34

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

your question again? "As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?" God doesn't! Except of course in denominations who have altered Gods word, by self interpretation (violates 2 peter 1:20 and deuteronomy 4:2).


Jesus treatment of The Atheists Pharisees.

The Woes of the Pharisees is a list of criticisms by Jesus against scribes and Pharisees recorded in the Gospels of Luke 11:37–54 and Matthew 23:1–39. Mark 12:35–40 and Luke 20:45–47 also include warnings about scribes. Eight are listed in Matthew, and hence Matthew's version is known as the eight woes.

13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.

17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[d] the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.

19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[e] in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[f] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?


Righteous anger is their due not respect! But only to the Atheist, not the unbelievers ...


Atheists REJECT God. Unbelievers do not reject God, they merely do not KNOW of God. As you go through the Debate Board, Atheists are identified by their REJECTION of any simblance of a God. They DEMAND proof, but do not look themselves. They spew hatred of God and Christians alike, accusing them of imaginings, hallucinations, ignorance and lack of intelligence for beliveing in something they cannot prove.

This is not the actions of unbelievers, these are the actions of the Condemned of Romans 1. They are to be ignored by the immature believers and left to those like myself, to show them the foolishness of their ways! The HELL that awaits them for lack of intelligence to seek salvation! Do not feel sorry for them, pity them and leave them to the mature believers who are their only chance, by reason of their inability to fool US with their nonsense. We do not fall to their lies. We have TRUTH as our shield, we have The Word as our sword, and we smite them where it hurts to reveal the putridness of their Father the Devil.


indeed you are required to follow the Scriptures ALONE for all teaching and allow GOD Himself to interpret the meanings behind His word, not heed the interpretations of Men who at onset violate outright the Gospel of God by personally interpreting scripture.


2 Peter 1:20

20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

Do you need someone to interpret this for you? Of course not it is clear. We are not to interpret Gods Word, we are to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the meanings. it says so here.

1 John 2:27

"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him."


Phillipians 3:15
15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

This obviously doesn't say Pastor, Preacher, Scholar, Commentary, Theologian. That Denominations HAVE relied on other than God that's WHY they never agree with each other isn't it atheists? And if YOU know this? Why do they NOT? Because they FOLLOW THEMSELVES not God! But they ARE SAVED ... but ONLY because :

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

As to Pro's beliefs what things MEAN? I reinterate with scripture: 2 Peter 1:20


2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

The question is: As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?

The Scripture answer IS NO!

What anyone chooses to believe? Not MY problem. Obey God ... Don't obey God, that's on you and you alone. Live long and prosper, may the force and all that sort a thing, don't worry be happy. Well, UNTIL you have to hand YOUR report Card to Christ ... Then?






Debate Round No. 3
TouchtheSky

Pro

So that's it? You're just personally insulting me and restating your argument from the first round? Begging your pardon, but I've already explained why every one of the scriptures you gave is invalid and does not prove your point. According to you, "everything I said is contradicting God's word". However, there is no evidence that you've given to even prove that you read more than the first few sentences of my arguments. All you've done so far is insult my character because I "don't use the Bible as a primary source", and go on about all of the Christians who aren't really in a personal relationship with God. This is completely irrelevant to the main topic.

I gave you verses that proved exactly what I said. Unlike you, I did not twist the Bible's words and write them differently, like you did with Acts 10:34. Unlike you, I did not ignore your arguments, but I addressed them quite clearly and backed my own arguments up with Bible verses. Unlike you, I did not ramble on about 43,000 denominations in an area completely irrelevant to the debate. I did not insult you or your beliefs or publically question your relationship with God, even though sitting here, I'm not convinced that you have one. I gave clear sources to back up my beliefs. I gave new arguments that still stand and only restated my points because you ignored them.

I do believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and I haven't said anything to contradict that. I gave you Bible verses that prove my point- if you think I contradicted that, I'm going to need direct quotes and evidence, preferably backed up by intelligent scholars like I did in my sources section.

But then again, what do I know? To quote you, "I have thirty years of study, and you haven't been ALIVE but 13 years all together". Fine then, have it your way, then. I'm just a brainless millennial who doesn't know what she's talking about. Wow. How ginormous you are.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

Pro states- "but I've already explained why every one of the scriptures you gave is invalid"

I beg your pardon ... you have done no such thing? You have merely refused to listen and learn. citing what YOU BELIEVE?

Now that you have asked the question- "As Christians, do Athiests deserve our Respect?"
and you have the scriptures that ANSWER the question. I will now address your arguments as requested.

Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Matthew 16:24 states
"Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

You are not at this level yet ... therefore your statement was valid - quote-With all due respect, you didn't address my arguments at all. "unquote. They were YOUR argument! and they were completely wrong. Gods word does not argue with itself ... only Mans word. Hence 43,000 Denominations, none agreeing, etc.

Your knowledge of the scripture are impressive ... even if without depth, and at your age .... imagine what you could become if you ACTUALLY surrender to Christ completely? My what a servant of Christ you could become! But to do ths you MUST become a Disciple and not just a follower and or People of God!

Your Learning while impressive demonstrates a lack of TRUE relationship by reason of lack of surrender to Christ. That you have surrendered to Man is obvious. Unfortunately MAN did not save you, Christ DID! and Man cannot Teach you ... only Christ Can!

You use the scriptures as a storyline. This is not wrong but it is not enough.

That occurs when MAN taught, not God Taught! God's word is inerrant and without contradiction or error! Pastors, Priests, Clergy are HUMAN TAUGHT, using HUMAN BOOKS, not scripture ALONE. Satan attacked the Word by inserting small changes, that on the surface appear correct but when viewed in the Spirit, are identifiable as misleading.

example ... ONLY and example ... but to allow you to SEE this in action.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Respect


an act of giving particular attention : consideration


3 a : high or special regard : esteem

b : the quality or state of being esteemed



Acts 10:34
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

Favoritism


the showing of special favor : partiality


2 : the state or fact of being a favorite

Obviously NOT the SAME!

yet you fell for it ... not unusual though all 43,000 Denominations have fallen for this by reson of their COMPLACENCY!

Complacent: marked by self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies :

Humanity has adopted dangerous text in multiple translations-
The Translations themselves are not the danger ... the complacency in the BELIEVER is the problem. You see I learn from God's word alone, you learn from Humanity, Translations, external literature, Pastors, Preachers, priests .. also who demonstrate Complacency, by reason of the overuse of Commentaries and MANS devices, which has drawn them astray ....

Drawn astray not by reason of skill or cunning art ... but by complacency. REFUSAL to do what is commanded of them all, that includes you?

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

as you have seen by the example ALL translations are to be held to the King James Version 1611. When they differ ... as in favoritism over Respecter .... you see if definition HAS BEEN ALTERED ... if so, you toss out that translation for the King James version of the text! not the other way around!

the ONLY ACCURATE Bible IS the King James version not the NKJV, not the KJV2000.... THE King James 1611 version.

As to teaching?
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets: 'And they will all be taught of God.' Everyone having heard from the Father and having learned, comes to Me.

learned from who? The Pastor? The Priest? Mom?Dad? The teacher?The Scholar?The Theologian? The Authors? NO ... GOD!

Isaiah 54:13
"All your sons will be taught of the LORD; And the well-being of your sons will be great.

learned from who? The Pastor? The Priest? Mom?Dad?The teacher? The Scholar? The Theologian? The Authors? NO ... GOD!

1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about brotherly love, you do not need anyone to write to you, because you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another.

learned from who? The Pastor? The Priest? Mom?Dad? The teacher?The Scholar? The Theologian? Authors? NO ... GOD!

1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.

whose annointing? The Pastor? The Priest? Mom?Dad? The teacher? The Scholar? The Theologian? The Authors? NO ... GODs!

Philippians 3:15
All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.

Who will reveal this to you? -The Pastor? The Priest? Mom?Dad? The teacher? The Scholar?The Theologian? The Authors? NO ... GOD!

The time has COME to leave the Earthly behind, and set out upon The Adventure of a lifetime. The ESTABLISHMENT of relationship with the Almighty God, who you have heard ... and now must meet!


Time to say goodbye to Denominational teaching which HAS served its purpose ... it got you SAVED! But That's all it CAN DO!

The REST? Only you and God can do? The question now is whether you are willing and prepared to submit TO God in totality holding nothing back for yourself? Are you? Are you prepared to do this? If not I stop here! Go about my business, let you believe whatever you want to believe!

Some questions:
If I decide to stay in the denomination ... what happens to me?
answer: Nothing BAD I assure you, merely different? Observe.

There are Ranks of Angels in Heaven mentioned IN the scriptures: archangel,cherubim, Michael, one of the chief princes,Seraphim

There are Ranks of Christian believers in Heaven mentioned in the scriptures: Priests and kings, children of God, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. , sons and daughters to Me, sons of the living God, But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, we are children of God,that we would be called children of God;for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection., in bringing many sons to glory, the children of the promise, Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

now let us observe the sciptures that identify the Rank difference:
Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

These are the Priest and Kings -Disciples of Christ! must be EARNED not free as Salvation is free. What are the requirements?
Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Matthew 16:24 no exceptions! otherwise Luke 14:27

Question: Luke 14:27 says you CANNOT be MY Disciple? IF your NOT a disciple CAN YOU BE a Priest/King? (remember Hosea 4:6? see the correlation)? WHY could they not be Gods priests? quote from God "because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee," unquote!

So The Priest Kings are 1 Rank .... because they are OBVIOUSLY different than the other Christians in heaven! That's First Rank.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward

These Christians by reason of WORKS SHALL recieve Reward ... NOT kingship and Priest hood! but rewards for things done in the body! Obviously NOT Disciples, or this statement would be moot! That's Rank#2

Last in line#3 Denominations mostly- 1 Corinthians 3:15 (another example of wrong translation)

KJV
-If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


obviously neither Disciple NOR reward reciever so clearly different than the other 2. These are they who are SAVED ALONE.
why do I call them the denominationalists? Easy ... they follow their OWN thinking and can learn nothing. They refuse to submit to God, believing what they want to ... which helps them continue to LIVE in the World and flesh!

Remember SALVATION IS FREE! during the Church age. These do not LIVE in SIN, they simply refuse to believe Gods word over their own!

95% if not 99%
remain completely unaware of this TRUTH? Why? They do not study SCRIPTURE, they learn in Church and sunday school.

do you know that IF that's they ONLY time you hear the word you will never hear almost HALF of the scriptures IN THE BIBLE? That is unacceptable. It is also WHY the Church is Biblically illiterate. Sad isn't it?

Well, no matter. That's only the majority of believers .... there are a few who have submitted to God alone. There is SO MUCH MORE though, that you simply cannot understand yet! But your young yet!

I'm going to leave you an invitation to be Friend ... this way you can ask questions ... I in tern will not give you opinions, but THE WORD. through discussions we can learn from the text and review WHY it is different from the way it's being taught by the Pastors, Prieachers and priest. though mostly it is obvious that they are teaching you what THEY believe and not what God actually says.

They storyboard it for you ... in this way they secretly TELL YOU WHAT to believe.

any way I am open for questions ... don't ask for my opinions though cause My opinion comes in scripture quotes alone! I can lead you, not TEACH you ... only God can do that! sup to you?







Debate Round No. 4
TouchtheSky

Pro

This argument has gone by very fast- thank you for debating with me. I hope that in this last argument, I can prove and highlight exactly what it is that I believe the scriptures say. You claim that I have "refused to listen and learn, citing only what I believe". This is for the voters to decide, not you, so voters, I urge you to read this debate carefully and genuinely share who you believe gave the best argument in this debate. I believe that I have addressed each of FollowerofChrist's arguments, and offered Bible verses of my own. He has still not done the same to me. I appreciate, however, that he seems to have at least read my arguments.

When you insulted my relationship with God, my first response was to want to get heated and hit back like I did in the last round. But because I know that this is only a diversion from the true message of the debate, I'm going to ignore it and go onto the real issue- whether atheists deserve respect. I am committed to my relationship with God, and though you may try to tell me otherwise, I will not change my mind until you give me concrete evidence. This you have not done.

Thank you for answering my question and providing the KJV as the source that you used. However, you have still clearly misinterpreted these words. If God is "no respecter of persons" this does not mean that he hates all people, but that he doesn't respect or pay any attention to people's 'person' as the word was known in that time (ei. their fleshly identity and social stance, such as men or women, Jewish or Gentile) [1]. The Greek word that is translated as "respecter" is prosopolemptes. It means "to show favoritism." [2] That's why many other versions, including the NKJV, have translated this as "God shows no partiality" [3].

I disagree that the KJV is the only true translation [4] [5] [6]. Although I believe that the KJV has a lot of benefits, I also know that because this is not the English that we speak today, many people can best find God when he is written in words that they understand. This allows for a more intimate relationship with him. When using the KJV, many mistakes in understanding (like the one we just had) appear. Note that in saying this, I'm not saying that it's wrong to use the KJV, and in fact, I think that it can be incredibly helpful to read such a version. But I often try to compare several versions when reading the scripture and use Bibles that are simple to read so that I can seek out the truth that Jesus has given for myself.

The rest of your argument is completely irrelevant- it is simply a statement of all of the things that I supposedly need to do to get special prizes in heaven. I'm ignoring this not because I don't want to go to heaven, but because I have confidence in where I am going, and I believe that what you are suggesting breaks God's law for reasons that I have already described. God commands me to love my enemies, and please look at the verses I gave in the second round if you want to counter that. And even if you are right, to be honest, I don't care. There's only one thing that I want when I get to heaven, and that's the opportunity to be in the presence of my Jesus. I'm not going to change that for the world.

[1] https://www.neverthirsty.org...
[2] https://www.ucg.org...
[3] http://biblehub.com...
[4] http://www.hickoryhammockbaptist.org...
[5] http://www.comereason.org...
[6] https://www.thegospelcoalition.org...
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 5
113 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by JimShady 3 years ago
JimShady
Mr. Missmedic

Thank you for your thoughtful response. You are right, I should not judge people as in (good or evil person), But I am allowed to judge their actions and words. For the Bible also says in John 7:24 "Stop judging by mere appearances, But instead judge correctly. "

If I am being a censor, Than so be it. Everyone should act as censors at some points in there life. What if no one wanted censorship for someone proclaiming that all feminists should be killed? We should try to silence those who we believe to be wrong.

I am not morally certain, Although I might sound as so. I am not 100% sure of my beliefs, And neither should anyone at this point in time, Atheist or theist.

History does overflow with misery inflicted by well-intentioned people who converted or destroyed those who differed, But it's also full of instances in which evil, Or at least something-like evil, Was defeated by those who disagreed and fought with honor against it.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Mr. Shady
Please remember Mark 7:1 Judge not, That ye be not judged.
What your trying to do is called censorship, Suppression of expression. You are no different then Follower, You both suffer from moral certainty, A dangerous mind set to have. History overflows with misery inflicted by well-intentioned people who were convinced that they had seen the only true moral values, And who sought to convert or destroy those who would not agree.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5vyXLhpPZfw
http://www. Finedictionary. Com/moral%20certainty. Html
Posted by JimShady 3 years ago
JimShady
"Beware of false prophets, Which come to you in sheep's clothing, But inwardly they are ravening wolves. " Matthew 7:15.

FollowerofChrist1955 is the epitome of a false prophet. He is a viable candidate for being the Antichrist, And while he may not intend to, He's converting more people to atheism than even atheists can. Please, For the love of all that is Godly and holy, Stop talking FollowerofChrist. You are neither a good debater nor prophet of God.

"But there were also false prophets among the people, Just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, Even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves. " 2 Peter: 1
Posted by Jhhillman 3 years ago
Jhhillman
@FollowerofChrist1955: You've been posting this exact comment all around this site, so I'll repeat mine.

@Follower: Wow, lots to unpack here! Let's get started. You claim that we haven't proved your facts (using that in a VERY loose sense of the term) wrong. But we have. Why do you think I won the debate?

SO now you're not debating anyone, huh? Had enough? Bad enough that you screw with the criteria for your debates, so you don't have to worry about anyone disagreeing with you. But now you're not even accepting challenges! So ridiculous.

"You can listen to these Morons, who talk without evidence OR you can listen to the only one WHO HAS EVIDENCE!":
Ok, let's look at the evidence we've provided:
People who are not FollowerofChrist1955: Multiple links to studies and scientific articles
FollowerofChrist1955: (none)

Here are some of the links I've provided when I debated you.
https://www.scientificamerican.com...
https://evolution.berkeley.edu...
Which of us is talking without evidence here?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
So all Followers FACTS are FACTS! Think about that a moment?
means none of your lies, can alter them doesn't it?

So "God proven REAL by Scientific Evidence" IS FACT, isn't it? You had nothing, no evidence proving that statement wrong! .... even WITH a computer, the World Wide Web, Scientist of the entire WORLD at your finger tips .... you coun't answer ANY of the questions NOR produce any evidence to even SHOW them inaccurate!

Okay I realize your totally delusional, and lacking in intelligence ... but C'mon IF something IS PROVEN TRUE!
to deliberately ignore that truth ... places you among the slugs of the world in intelligence don't you think?
Hey don't kill the messenger. I don't see NO Line rushing to SAVE your skin from Hell but me? I am no good to YOU by feeding your ego while you crash and BURN!

I don't see other Christians going out of their comfort zones telling you the TRUTH about Hell and your part IN IT!

Their standing on the sidelines waving cookies and Kool-aid, Their car salesman, with a cross. They will give account for themselves to Christ, If smackin you in the back of the head will wake you up, hey I'll apologize to you IN HEAVEN! But at least you'll BE in Heaven.

sup to you folks. You can listen to these Morons, who talk without evidence OR you can listen to the only one WHO HAS EVIDENCE!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
To THINK, that to require an answer that demonstrates you HAVE knowledge ON a subject ... somehow SABOTAGES the dunces of the World, forbidding THEM from accepting debates they have NO BUSINESS debating.

GASP, the Gaul, The Audacity, The Infamy ... I suppose the hopelessly ignorant SHALL NOT participate in Followers debates no longer ... huh?

that's okay, I only need ONE with reason, intelligence and maturity with which to debate.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
How strange, isn't it?
To be a part of a species bereft of TRUTH over illusion, or delusion in The respondent case's demonstrated during this debate.

How does it feel to be a part of a species, who has forsaken all reason, for total emotion and ignorance?

Here we have ample demonstrations of pure empirical evidence that Humanity as a Whole, with only few exceptions willfully CHOOSE to remain self-delusional. Literally OUT OF TOUCH with reality!

Take Jhhillman ,Stupidape ; and all the others?

Here we have souls who COULD NOT give answer to ANY of the questions ... so that they COULD participate in Debate, yet are as clueless to their educational inadequacies as they are to the REALIZATION that, as a Marine Drill Sergeant once so adequately stated " Son, you just DON'T pack the gear!"

Indeed how can one Debate a topic for which they DEMONSTRATE total stupidity as not to be able to answer EVEN ONE of 4 prerequisite questions?

I mean does HARVARD, YALE or PRINCETON, admit souls who demonstrate a profound sense of ignorance, as to not to BE AWARE of their own lack of merit to even have VOICE in a debate that requires Reason, Reflection and intellectual wherewithal with which to participate?

Behold the stupidty for yourselves and I quote- "Follower sets his criteria for debates so that nobody can actually debate him."

Followers IMPOSSIBLE request (That a respondent submit evidence of fact?)

IF your intelligent you will respond with either a FACT to disprove " rather than just a denial without the PROOF to support your remark OR you will respond with a reasonable question regarding veracity of statements made here.

to require LESS would have a 3 year old participating ... wouldn't it? or a 14, 18 year old who have NO BUSINESS discussing such IMPORTANT REALITIES!

we need no OPINIONS, we NEED FACTS? IF you ARE going to HELL it is HIGH TIME YOU KNOW IT .... don't you think?

and you ARE going there aren't you? ACCORDING to evidence and FACT
Posted by Shadowstalker55 3 years ago
Shadowstalker55
@Follower

Oh my God! Do you have screw loose in your head? I'm looking at this now and it's the same exact message you've posted to me the third time around and I was hardly even active on this comment section. I can't believe you've posted the same exact message on three different comment sections. You are such a freak!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Shadowstalker55 ;
and that will help her in Hell how?

You see you all have the most ignorant of outlooks. You think what Humanity "THINKS" is reality. It isn't.
Nothing you say aters TRUTH. your all STILL going to Hell, still going to burn for eternity, Still remain Blind to reality till FACED with its realization, on passing and FEELING the burn so to speak?

The only difference will BE that you can do NOTHING about changing it at that point?
None of you see that Con .... COULD NOT ANSWER, with evidence, merely opinion. that means what I said was the TRUTH.

Voters don't alter that reality stupid? hehehe

be a stoup if you want. That has always been your right. Just like in EVERY DEBATE so far ... NONE of you can answer the questions ... because they are all true and YOU, are all going to die IN SIN!

Never even occurred to you that your incapability to even CHALLENGE the statements at all, IS PROOF!
just proof your BLIND TO!
BYE
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
What IS surprising? Is that it is a matter of Scripture that in the end times, There will be;
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

yet 43,000 Christian Denominations exist, each with their OWN personal interpretations of scripture. ALL OF WHOM, clearly DIFFER from myself? As is obvious by the statements of the professing Christians. Yet it does not occur to THEM, that there ARE 43,000 of THEM, and only 1 of me?

If evidence means anything ... it is evident That I use scripture ... they largely do not!

They paraphrase and TELL YOU what to believe ... I show YOU the scripture, which is PLAIN on its own!

They leave out that your going to Hell if you died today .... I don't, I insist you know this!

They are kind, polite as they watch you GO to Hell, I tell you of your human stupidity, because you REFUSE to accept REAL undeniable evidence. Evidence ... NONE of you can dispute WITH evidence.

Opinions? yes Loads of opinions but not 1 of you with evidence. Just others opinions.

I know of the 3 Ranks of believers and NOBODY ELSE in Christendom, appears to know this? Why not? That seems particularly relevant now a days?

Course the statement ... I never was taught that, comes up a lot ... But THAT tells me your listening to Man not God. Cause God told ME, and it stands to reason He WOULD tell you TOO IF you would actually READ His word, instead of pew sitting and Listening to a Pastor trying to convert sinners every Sunday?

YOUR NOT SINNERS, your SAVED, yyou should be ESTABLISHING your RELATIONSHIP with God, not the Pastor! You instead IGNORE God, and listen Solely to humanity.

Sigh! Go figure.
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