The Instigator
GeneralGrant
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
BiggsBoonj
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Atheism is Arbitrary, Inconsistent and it Borrows from the Bible

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 817 times Debate No: 120688
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

GeneralGrant

Pro

Atheism is arbitrary because it is the opinion of man sitting as the absolute authority of any subject.

It is illogical because it relies on strict materialism.

It is inconsistent in its view of morality and borrows from the Bible for morality.

Lastly, Doing scientific inquiry is predicated on the Bible being true.
BiggsBoonj

Con

First of all, I would like to define Atheism. Atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. That's all atheism is, Really. Atheism isn't a belief or philosophy, It's lack of belief that deities exist. I would disagree with your statements:

Atheism is absolutely not arbitrary. Unlike theists, Atheists don't simply believe priests or holy books. Instead, They observe the world around them and notice that there is no evidence of God/gods existing. From that observation, They draw the conclusion that God/gods doesn't exist. Atheism is a logical belief, Not guided by chance. It is not the opinion of some authority, It is a logical conclusion atheists come to. Unlike theists, Atheists don't take authority for granted (or they wouldn't be atheists).

Atheism isn't immoral and it doesn't borrow from the Bible. It borrows from common sense. People know that hurting others is wrong, That murder is wrong, That theft is wrong, Etc not because the Bible tells them but because it's common sense. Further, Some things the Bible says isn't very moral: like saying that homosexuality is a sin and homosexuals should be executed (Leviticus 18:22).

Scientific inquiry is absolutely not predicated on the Bible being true. The Bible says stuff like "there was a worldwide flood 6, 000 years ago" and "God created the world less than 10, 000 years ago. " We KNOW that to be false. There is absolutely no evidence of a global flood and there is plenty of evidence that the world wasn't created 10, 000 years ago. How can a book which makes such incorrect statements be a basis for scientific inquiry?

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in deities. All your claims are wrong. Atheism is not arbitrary, It's based on logic (unlike religion, Which is based on faith). Atheism isn't illogical. The Bible is scientifically wrong.
Debate Round No. 1
GeneralGrant

Pro

I do want to make clear that I am not arguing for theism in general, But for Christian theism. I unashamedly argue for the God of the Bible.

'Atheism isn't a belief'
I would say it most certainly is based on the fact that it requires a belief, Based on faith, That there is no God.

Isaiah 2:22 says, 'Stop regarding man in whose nostrils is breath, For of what account is he? ' Next to God, The ideas of man are but a breath. God's ways are much higher than man's according to Isaiah 55:9. This is logical, As God is all/knowing and man isn't.
When the opinions of man sit as the absolute authority on a subject, Then they are arbitrary. Each person sits in the supposed position of authority, So no one is in authority. This is the case for atheism. There is no God or ultimate authority to appeal to in an atheistic mindset. In the absence of God, Man is viewed as the final authority on all matters.
Appealing to man's opinions as the truth is a faulty appeal to authority. Thus, It is illogical. The entire philosophy of atheism is based on man being the ultimate authority on all matters which is an arbitrary position that can never provide a source of truth.

I want to make clear that I never said that atheism is immoral or that atheists cannot be moral. Now, If we follow your worldview, Everything came from nothing and all things are merely chemical reactions doing what chemicals do, Since this is the case there would be no such thing as right and wrong. In other words, If someone decides to kill all the atheists in the world, From your position that is okay since you cannot argue that killing atheists is wrong within your own worldview. If people are merely a sack of chemicals interacting, Then there is no consistent reason to forbid killing others.
Don't get me wrong, You most likely want some moral code, You don't want to be murdered or lied to, But that doesn't come from your religion. Instead it comes from God who has written the law on your heart, And your conscience knows it. Really, You must borrow morality from God's Word, Whether you realize it or not.

You also borrow the laws of logic from the Bible.

Again I say that doing scientific inquiry is predicated on the Bible being true. Here is why. God upholds the world in a consistent fashion and has promised to do so in Genesis 8:22. So the Christian can do observable and repeatable science, Knowing that the result will be the same day by day.
God, Who knows all things past, Present and future has promised the future will be like the past-not in the conditions of course, But in the way God upholds things. To clarify, The wind may not blow at the same speed each day, But the laws that govern the wind will be the same each day, Allowing predictions about the future. In your worldview, Laws of nature changed in the past, The big bang defies the laws of physics; there were no laws, Now there are laws. In the future they may change again. Since no one really knows the future in your framework, The laws of nature could change as early as tomorrow. Why do science if the laws of science might change tomorrow?

Lastly, Atheism leads to the path of absurdity.
BiggsBoonj

Con

Again, Atheism isn't a belief. It is a lack of one. A belief is an acceptance that something is true without proof. Atheism always demands proof and looks at proof, So it can't be a belief. Atheism is an observation of facts and a logical conclusion. It doesn't matter if you think that the conclusion is wrong, It's still not a belief.

Your first argument makes no sense. First of all, You use the Bible to convince me which isn't going to do anything as I'm an atheist. If you want to debate properly, Don't use the Bible and use logic instead. The Bible isn't an argument. Just because some book says so, Doesn't mean that it's true. The Bible also says that God is omnipotent, But that's logically impossible.
Your second argument is completely wrong. "Appealing to man's opinions as the truth is a faulty appeal to authority"- what? 'God doesn't exist' isn't an opinion, It is a fact. Just like 'God exists' is also a fact, Not an opinion. Have you even went to school? They teach the difference between facts and opinions in 3rd grade! And do you even know what appeal to authority is? It's when the opinion of someone in a position of authority is used as an argument. Atheists don't do that, We discuss logically and debate. If atheists are commiting appeal to authority, So are theists, Because your main argument is 'God said so in the Bible'.

The immorality argument is logically incorrect, Too. First of all, You really need to study biology. Everything isn't "chemical reactions doing what chemicals do". Living beings have brains and nerves so they can feel pain. For this reason, Hurting them is wrong. How are people who never saw or read the Bible moral? Why are people who read the Bible many times immoral? Why were people BEFORE CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM EVEN APPEARED moral? If anything, That argument makes you a heartless monster because you only live morally because God said so. You only live morally because you want to go to Heaven/are scared of going to Hell.

How do we borrow the laws of logic from the Bible?

How does atheism lead to the path of absurdity?

Everything else you said is just insanely wrong. You don't even know the atheist worldview at all, And then you create strawmen to fit your incorrect worldview. No, Atheists do not believe that laws of nature could change. There's a thing called physics and chemistry and biology, Which you apparently didn't learn. None of what else you said is connected to atheism. Believing in the Big Bang or believing that laws of nature/science can change all the time isn't part of atheism. Atheism is just a lack of belief in God/gods, That's all it is.
Debate Round No. 2
GeneralGrant

Pro

'A belief is an acceptance that something is true without proof. '
So let me ask you, Where is your proof God does not exist? If you do not have that proof then you have a belief that something is true without proof.

'Have you even went to school? '
It's, Have you ever gone to school?

"Why were people BEFORE CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM EVEN APPEARED moral? "
Since the Bible is true Christianity and Judaism were at the beginning of time when God created the heavens and the earth.

Atheism is Arbitrary
In the case of God and His Word, They are not arbitrary. This is because there is no greater authority than God as Hebrews 6:13 says. There is no greater authority that can be appealed to than God/and by extension His Word.
However, All secular views fail to appeal to God as their final authority, Instead appealing to man. Man is a lesser authority and not absolute. Thus, Any authority of man is a mere opinion to the absolute and supreme authority of God and His Word. Atheism is based on the ideas of fallible man and thus arbitrary next to God.
The fact that atheists deviate from one another in their belief systems shows how relative they are regarding man's opinions. Thus, Relativism reigns supreme among them. But relativism is fallacious, Being arbitrary.

Inconsistency
Atheists have behavioral inconsistencies. They talk about how humans are simply chemical accidents - the end result of a long and purposeless chain of biological evolution. But the they go home and kiss the wife and hug the children, As if they were not simply chemical accidents, But valuable, Irreplaceable persons deserving of respect and worthy of love.
Consider the atheist who is outraged at seeing a violent murder on the new. He gets upset and hopes the murderer gets punished for his actions. Bu in his worldview, Why be angry? In the point of view from an evolutionary perspective we are all just animals and murder is like a lion killing an antelope. But we don't punish the lion! If we are just chemical accidents, Then why punish one for killing another?

Borrow From The Bible

Let me ask you some questions. If people are merely evolved animals and there is no God who sets right and wrong, Then why wear clothes? Why get married? Why get and education? Squirrels don't set up universities to discuss philosophical methodology?
Why celebrate the popular Christian holidays called weekends, Which is based on the Sabbath and the Lord's Day? Why have holidays anyway? A holiday is a holy day, Yet there exists nothing holy in a secular worldview.
Why heal sick people (medicine) when survival of the fittest should take its course as it has in the past without interference? Why have laws? God may set laws, But if we are our own authority, Then law is meaningless.
Why waste time on science? In fact, How do you know the laws of nature won't change tomorrow? You can't know the future will be uniform.

Inconsistency in Logic
Atheists must borrow from God's logic to reason, For how could there be laws without a lawgiver? Atheists cannot account for he existence of the laws of logic, Why they are immaterial, Why they are universal, Why they don't change with time and how humans ca possibly know about them or their properties. Biblical Christianity can account for them. The best roof for the existence of God is that without Him we would not know anything.

Path to Absurdity

The path of absurdity. Let's now assume that the atheistic worldview could make sense of logic. To say there is no God would logically require someone to look everywhere in the entire universe at the exact same time and for all time, Past and future, And find no God.
Furthermore, The atheist would have to be powerful enough to look in the immaterial, Spiritual realm for all time too. They would also have to be powerful enough to supersede God to make sure God was not cloaking Himself from their search. In other words, For an atheist to say 'there is no God' would require the atheist to be omnipresent and omnipotent. The atheist would essentially have to be all-knowing to say God doesn't exist.
Thus, For an atheist to claim there is no God would require them to be God! This, It is an absurd and self-refuting worldview.

'Believing in the Big Bang or believing that laws of nature/science can change all the time isn't part of atheism. '
Actually it is because the other alternative is to believe in God and the uniformity in nature.
BiggsBoonj

Con

I would like to explain what I think about the existance of God. In his book called "The God Delusion", Richard Dawkins created a 1-7 scale to calculate an individual's theism/atheism (https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability). I would say that I'm 6. Which means that if evidence arises that God exists, Then I will believe in him. I'm sure 99% of atheists would also believe in God's existance if they were provided enough evidence.
You cannot prove the absence of something. Never. Can you prove that Santa doesn't exist? No. Can you prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist? No. Can you prove that a huge spaghetti monster pretending to be God doesn't exist? No. You can prove how illogical and absurd something would be if it existed, But there is no such thing as evidence of absence. Nobody can prove that God doesn't exist. Just like nobody can prove that anything doesn't exist.
Your "atheism is arbitrary" argument only works if God exists. Which I conclude he does not, That argument is pointless. How atheism is arbitrary, When it promotes gathering evidence and making logical conclusions, I do not know.

Of course atheists kiss their wife, Get angry when someone is murdered, Etc! That is because of human brains and psychology. We are, As you put it, "chemical accidents" (though that isn't completely correct), But that doesn't mean we should be heartless amoeba. Feelings are created by the human brain. We don't punish the lion because it's mentally retarded (compared to humans): can't talk, Can't think logically, Etc. So there is no point in punishing a lion because it's less smart than humans, And won't learn anything from that punishment. Social darwinism is a horrible system to live in, And it shouldn't be promoted. But that doesn't make Darwinism incorrect. Just because something is horrible doesn't mean it's not true.

"Borrow from the Bible argument"- stupidity never ending. The argument that the non-existance of God would cause humans to run around naked, Stop marrying, Abandon education, Treat the ill, Create laws, Learn science, Is the worst argument against atheism I have ever heard. Seriously. How can you utter such nonsense? I won't even discuss that argument and leave it to the voters to decide if it's logical.

I repeat once again: atheism is the lack of belief in God/gods. It is not the assumption that we are chemical accidents. It is not the belief that the Big Bang happened. It is not the belief that man is the ultimate authority. It is not the belief in social Darwinism. But let me ask you some questions which I want you to answer:

Can you prove that God exists? With actual evidence, Not philosophy.

Why do Muslims, Buddhists, And other non-Christians wear clothes, Go to school, Etc?

Why did morality exist before Christianity, Which appeared 1st century CE; and why did morality exist before Judaism, Which appeared around 1800 BCE?

Why did people wear clothes, Go to school, Etc in places like pagan Ancient Rome before Jesus was even born and before Christianity appeared?

Why did people in almost completely atheist states, Like the USSR, Wear clothes, Go to school, Etc?

Why were people in almost completely atheist states, Like the USSR, Moral?

Is there an authority above God? If no, How do you know? Isn't that an arbitrary assumption?

Why do immoral Christians exist?

If morality comes from God, Does that mean humans are only moral when told to do so?

If morality comes from God, Are humans only moral because of heaven/hell?

Why do moral atheists exist?

Most people have never read the Bible. How can they borrow anything from it?
Debate Round No. 3
GeneralGrant

Pro

"How atheism is arbitrary, When it promotes gathering evidence and making logical conclusions, I do not know. "
Atheism is arbitrary because it is based on fallible man. Man makes mistakes, Therefore he cannot be relied on for absolute truth as I have stated before.

"Can you prove that God exists? With actual evidence, Not philosophy. "
Surely. The evidence is in the immaterial. Things such as morals, Logic, Uniformity in nature and information all are evidence for God.

"Why do Muslims, Buddhists, And other non-Christians wear clothes, Go to school, Etc? "
The answer is simple, God says in Romans that He has written the law in all of men"s hearts. However, They also have many morals that are against God.

"Why did morality exist before Christianity, Which appeared 1st century CE; and why did morality exist before Judaism, Which appeared around 1800 BCE? "
Actually, Since the Bible is true then we get the laws from Adam and Noah, In other words since the beginning of time.

"Why did people wear clothes, Go to school, Etc in places like pagan Ancient Rome before Jesus was even born and before Christianity appeared? Why did people in almost completely atheist states, Like the USSR, Wear clothes, Go to school, Etc?
Why were people in almost completely atheist states, Like the USSR, Moral? "
Again the Bible points out that God has written the lasw in their hearts.

"Is there an authority above God? If no, How do you know? Isn't that an arbitrary assumption? "
Because logically there can only be one God. A plethora of gods is illogical.

"Why do immoral Christians exist? "
Because they are sinners like everyone else. The problem isn"t with God, But with those Christians.

"If morality comes from God, Does that mean humans are only moral when told to do so? "
Absolutely, That is why many things that God says is morally wrong are becoming law. So yes. Humans are only moral so long as God is telling them to be so. Once. They turn God off, They become immoral in their actions.

"If morality comes from God, Are humans only moral because of heaven/hell? "
No. I am moral because I love God and want to please Him, Not to go to heaven for I am on my way to heaven because I put my faith in Jesus and repented of my sin. Going to heaven isn't determined by good works, But by trusting in Jesus' work on the cross.

"Why do moral atheists exist? "
Because they borrow from the Bible, But in the atheist worldview, Where we are just animals there is no reason to be moral. So they are inconsistent in their beliefs.

"Most people have never read the Bible. How can they borrow anything from it? "
Because God says in Romans that He has written the law in every persons heart.
BiggsBoonj

Con

"Man makes mistakes" is a logical fallacy, The opposite of the Appeal to Authority. I could use the same fallacy to say that you're mistaken (as you are human) and God doesn't actually exist. If man is fallible, How is your belief correct, But atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, And thousands of other religions are wrong? Surely you are wrong too, Right?

You haven't shown any facts which prove the existance of a deity.

Trusting the Bible as a source is wrong, Because the Bible says crazy things like "the world was created 6, 000 years ago" and "there was a global flood 4, 000 years ago" and "a woman got pregnant from thin air" and "one man suffered, So all of humanity's sins were forgiven" and "God is omnipotent" and thousands of other crap. Just because some book says so doesn't mean anything. You use arguments "since the Bible is true", But the Bible is not true, Or at least not by default.

I also fail to see the argument how logically, There can only be one God. How are many gods illogical? How is Yahwe real, But Thor and Zeus and Allah and other gods false? They are false to me as an atheist, But why are they false to you?

Do you not see how disastrously wrong "humans are only moral because they are told so" is? It means humans are only moral because they are scared of God or want to go to Heaven! But how am I moral if I don't believe in God? And how are Christians immoral? You said that Christians can be immoral, But how if according to you GOD LITERALLY WROTE MORALITY IN THEIR HEARTS?

"The atheist worldview" is also crap. How many times does this have to be repeated? Atheism is not belief in the Big Bang. Atheism isn't a blind faith in science. Atheist isn't illogical. Atheism isn't arbitrary. Atheism isn't immoral. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God/gods! I wish you understood that.
Debate Round No. 4
GeneralGrant

Pro

How we got to debating about Christianity I don't know. This debate was only for discussing about atheism. I am assuming that Con cannot defend himself and must resort to changing the debate to Christianity. Although I am not obliged to answer his questions regarding Christianity I will go ahead and indulge him.

"I could use the same fallacy to say that you're mistaken (as you are human) and God doesn't actually exist. "
You actually cannot because you are begging the question by saying God does not exist when you have no proof. Since God does exists, Biblical Christianity is not based on man, But on God who alone has the absolute truth. Unlike atheism whose adherents beliefs are different one from the other.

"Trusting the Bible as a source is wrong, Because the Bible says crazy things like "the world was created 6, 000 years ago" and "there was a global flood 4, 000 years ago" and "a woman got pregnant from thin air" and "one man suffered, So all of humanity's sins were forgiven" and "God is omnipotent" and thousands of other crap. Just because some book says so doesn't mean anything. You use arguments "since the Bible is true", But the Bible is not true, Or at least not by default. "
Actually nature gives evidence in nature that the earth was created 6, 000 years ago and plenty of evidence for a worldwide flood. Though the Bible makes some extraordinary claims such claims are not truly illogical. The examples you mention, Although not everyday occurrences, They are not contradictory. They do not violate any laws of logic. You are simply dismissing those claims of the Bible that do not appeal to your personal, Unguarded sense of what is possible, You are being irrational. You are committing the logical fallacy known as "begging the question. " You have decided in advance that miracles are impossible, Thereby tacitly assuming that the Bible is not true because it contains miracles.

"I also fail to see the argument how logically, There can only be one God. How are many gods illogical? How is Yahwe real, But Thor and Zeus and Allah and other gods false? They are false to me as an atheist, But why are they false to you? "
If we had multiple sovereign authors of the universe create our reality, Try to imagine what our reality would be like if they disagreed. One god decides certain trees will have abundant green leaves on its branches, But the other god decides these same trees will not have any leaves at all under any circumstances whatsoever. The question we as humans are then faced with is do these trees have abundant green leaves, Or do they not?
The answer, Of course, Is that both options are completely and wholly true and both are also completely and wholly false. The trees have leaves and it is not the case that the trees have leaves. At the same time. And in the same way. Not only does this make our reality incoherent and incomprehensible; not only does this make our presupposed universality and invariance of the law of non-contradiction invalid (though if it is invalid it may also be valid at the same time and in the same way); but this also points out an interesting fact about exactly what the gods themselves, The ultimate authorities over our reality, Each individually hold to be correct.
Our first god who is sovereignly authoring the universe determines that these certain trees have abundant leaves. Therefore, He knows that those trees do in fact have abundant leaves. However, Even though he is right, He is also wrong. Even if this sovereign god directly informed us that the universe he created was non-contradictory, His personal opinion on the matter would not be trustworthy given the presence of the other equally authoritative god. Indeed, This first god cannot authoritatively guarantee anything at all for his created humans, So he cannot be trusted to present us with an accurate view of his very own creation.
To misappropriate an old saying, If everyone is sovereign, No one is.
If the law of non-contradiction is an untrustworthy test of truth, As it would necessarily be with multiple sovereign gods who are equally ultimate it is not possible to guarantee any kind of meaning for anything at all. Things may mean what they don't mean. Arguments may prove what they disprove. Assertions and their negations may be equivalent. No one, Not even the gods, Could be justifiably certain of anything at all. Rational thought, Dependent upon the universality and invariance of the law of non-contradiction, Would be non-existent.
Another problem that would be faced is morality. Which gods morality would we follow?

"Do you not see how disastrously wrong "humans are only moral because they are told so" is? It means humans are only moral because they are scared of God or want to go to Heaven! But how am I moral if I don't believe in God? And how are Christians immoral? You said that Christians can be immoral, But how if according to you GOD LITERALLY WROTE MORALITY IN THEIR HEARTS? "
Yes, We are only moral when we are scared of God. The Nazis were not scared of God, Hence the atrocities. The USSR was not scared of God and look what they did. Our politicians are not scared of God and now they are all in for infanticide. In Europe they are not scared of God and the euthanize older people without their consent many times. I am not saying that atheists are immoral, But the law of God is written in their hearts as well. As for immoral Christian, Yes they also have God's law in their hearts, Yet they choose not to hear it.

"The atheist worldview" is also crap. How many times does this have to be repeated? Atheism is not belief in the Big Bang. Atheism isn't a blind faith in science. Atheist isn't illogical. Atheism isn't arbitrary. Atheism isn't immoral. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God/gods! I wish you understood that. "
Are you saying you don't believe in the Big Bang?
BiggsBoonj

Con

We got to debating Christianity because you are a Christian, And religion is the opposite of atheism. You brought up the Bible and you brought up God, So that's what we're discussing. You even brought up verses from the Bible such as Isaiah 2:22.

You say that atheism's beliefs are different from one another. That is obviously not true, As atheism is simply a lack of belief in God/gods. You will never learn that, I'm afraid. However, RELIGION's beliefs are very different from one another. Some Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. Some don't. Jews believe that Jesus was a fraud. Muslims believe that he was a prophet. Vikings believed in Thor and Odin. Let me ask you, Why is the Bible right but not the Torah, Not the Quran, And not hundreds of other holy books? Why are morals based on the Bible and not on other holy books? Why is Christianity suddenly the right religion, And thousands of other religions are false? Really, If you are a Christian that means you don't believe in thousands of other Gods, Some as powerful as Yahwe himself. Isn't that arbitrary?

"Nature" gives 0 evidence that the world was created 6, 000 years ago. We find fossils millions of years old. Carbon dating? Nah, Let's just use some book written thousands of years ago by Jewish scribes in the desert. Do you not see the ridiculousness of these claims? Where is the evidence that there was a Global Flood? Nowhere. Such evidence does not exist. Cultures like Ancient Egypt existed before 4000 years ago and after that too. If there was a flood, They would've dissapeared.

I am being irrational? Says someone who believes that the world was created 6000 years ago. But here's one thing that doesn't make sense in the Bible: God's omnipotence. Nobody can be omnipotent. Can God create a stone which nobody could lift? If no, He is not omnipotent. Could God lift that stone? If no, He is not omnipotent. If yes, He is not omnipotent since he couldn't create an unliftable stone. There's one excerpt from the Bible which defines logic. I am concluding that the Bible is false because it's illogical and doesn't correspond with science, Not because it "has miracles".

I really hope you do not borrow your morals from the Bible. Because the Bible says things like "If a man lies with another man as he lies with a woman, They are an abomination. They shall be surely put to death" (Leviticus 20:13). I really hope that you don't believe homosexuals should be executed.

And finally, "the atheist worldview". I believe in the Big Bang, But believing in the Big Bang isn't part of being an atheist. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God/gods. Atheism is not the belief that we are all chemical accidents, As you like to say. Atheism is not the belief that you can do what you want. Atheism is not the belief in Social Darwinism or even in Evolution. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God/gods, And I wish you would learn that.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God/gods. Nothing else. GeneralGrant should have learned that in school, But apparently he was too busy going to church instead.
Posted by 21stCenturyIconoclast 3 years ago
21stCenturyIconoclast
GENERAL GRANTS EMBARRASSING QUOTE: "atheism borrows morality from the bible. " Huh?

The ever so ignorant pseudo-christian, General Grant, Wants the Atheist to follow the FEW OF MANY OF THE MORES from his primitive Bronze and Iron Age bible shown below? Surely he jests, Correct?

"When men fight with one another, And the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, And puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, THEN YOU SHALL CUT OFF HER HAND. " ( Deuteronomy 25:11-12 )

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, Including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, Passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, BUT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, YOUR RELITIVES, MUST NEVER BE TREATED THIS WAY. " (Leviticus 25:44-46)

" But I would have you know, That the head of every man is Christ AND THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS MAN. " For the man is not of the women; but the woman of the man. " (1Corinthians 11: 3, 8)

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, Nor to usurp the authority over man, BUT TO BE IN SILENCE. " (Timothy 2:12)

Go to a party and hide. When the women comes out to dance, Grab one and carry her off to be your wife. (Judges 21:19-25)

"But if this thing be true, And the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father"s house, And the men of her city SHALL STONE HER TO DEATH WITH STONES THAT SHE DIE: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, To play the whore in her father"s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. " (Deut. 22:20-21)

The pseudo-christian always shows why not to follow their pagan bible in the 21st century!
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@croweupc - Yep GeneralGrant/ Pro tried that same crap on me. "It borrows morality from the bible. "
Oh where oh where *snooze* is his bottom feeder rectal itch of a boredom platform ideals did that thing come up with that one with a tin blindfold on his you know where areas?
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@b9_ntt - That's the problem. GeneralGrant/ Pro who I tried debating with, Doesn't understand AT ALL what an atheist is. He tries to by establishing a book in which only a precious few have ever heard about or read. Ridiculous. He doesn't get or understand that atheists are not grouped together but are individuals, Unlike what his scalding must be a religion is all huddled together (and yet there's no consensus), In order for there to be worshiped to an unproven god that he knowingly worships from his bible that must leap off the pages and onto his fantastical lap.
Posted by Surgeon 3 years ago
Surgeon
This whole debate topic is a straw man, A non-sequitur and a projection of the Theists own stolen concept fallacy onto Atheism. Firstly Atheism does not entail materialism. I am an Atheist, But not a strict materialist and both my metaphysics and epistemology are consistent. Secondly, Immaterial Existence and Atheism could both be true (and are), But no argument is offered as to why we should believe the contrary. Thirdly, It is religion that borrows from Naturalism. It borrows natural concepts and then projects back onto Naturalism it"s own weakness. Without Naturalism being true then Theism could not put a single argument forward. I challenge any Theist to name any concept or argument that doesn"t use the consistency of Nature to bootstrap itself. Even the sentence "God exists", Invokes the concept of Existence. This concept is only formulated by observing a consistent Natural Universe. If the cartoon world of Theism were true then it would not be a reliable concept, As it would be possible for a god to put something half-in and half-out the space-time manifold and thus neither Exist nor Not-exist. The Theist can always disprove this by putting forward just one concept (any concept) that relies on the inconsistency of Nature and the consistency of their belief in Supernature (whatever that may be, Because it is never explained).
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Moral certainty is the danger
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@GeneralGrant but not because they were atheists
Posted by GeneralGrant 3 years ago
GeneralGrant
croweupc Actually atheists have done a lot of killing in the 20th century.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
B9
One need not own beliefs of any kind to establish scientific facts, Observe and enjoy nature, Or live a productive, Moral, And useful life.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
GeneralGrant
I would use the term supernatural realm and knowledge is not use to understand it. To claim an understanding, Belief and emotion are that is needed. When someone claims to have supernatural knowledge, Or the ability to gain knowledge in a way that you are unable to, Their claims cannot be considered valid. If there is no evidence for a claim, Then accepting it is irrational. It is more likely to be false then true (since there are more false ideas then true ones, Being that their is only one reality).
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