The Instigator
XxXDestinyXxX
Con (against)
The Contender
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Pro (for)

Athiest view on god? anyone want to tell me why "god" is real.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/30/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 673 times Debate No: 113288
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (0)

 

XxXDestinyXxX

Con

Why does "god" let their be all this pain,suffering,war and death in the world if he can stop it. And since he has the power to stop it doesn't that make him responsible for it. So how is he real than. What an atheist thinks. Care to tell me why hes real.
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Pro

Greetings, to my opponent and all who may be reading this.
I will reckon the god you are referring to is the roman catholic one, which is Jesus Christ from Nazareth, in which case i accept the task of reaching a conclusion with you in the "why"s and the "what"s that Catholicism conveys. To clarify my stance in the topic: I believe that there is a god and that he is real, i also do believe that he gave us all the freedom of will, this meaning everyone has their own personality and choose what they want to do consciously, people who provoke and participate in armed warfare choose to do so or are lead by people who chose for them. It is not our maker's fault that there is evil men in this world, but their own fault, as they are the corrupt and have strayed from the divine. i await your first argument.
Debate Round No. 1
XxXDestinyXxX

Con

First sorry I should have clarified which god. But yes you are correct. But my argument is why is he real. The thing is catholics don't even follow the bible anymore. Christians don't either. Like in leviticus 11:4 it says" Nevertheless these you shall not eat . . . the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." which is saying you don't need to eat pig because its unclean. yet many christians and such break that rule. Also deuteronomy 22:11 "You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together." this one is saying your not supposed to wear clothes with mixed linen and wool. christians and catholics break that alot. But my argument is that I want proof that there is a god.
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Pro

That can be confusing indeed, i will provide answers chronologically. To begin with, we must agree upon a clear division line between old and new testament, since the old can also be classified as the Torah, and we are discussing Catholicism, not Jewish. It is still an important part of the bible, but it is a separate timeline from the new testament. Leviticus treats the times of Moses, how he lead a Jewish slave march through the desert to escape from Egyptian rule, now Moses had very radical ideals, but once the son of god is born, he clarifies in Mark 7:

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don"t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn"t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body."

That is an adapted version though, if you would like to see the king james version (which to my point of view seems a lot less biased and more trustworthy in exact words) i will leave a link at the end.
As to Deuteronomy 22:11, it once had a cause and was effective to society maybe hundreds of years before our fathers, but now it serves no purpose and has been declared obsolete by the highest divine authority in earth Catholics recognize, Pope Francisco, as has Deuteronomy 22:5 (which i will leave a link to).
Now the last one has many deviations, i am from Hispanic origins, and my favorite physical proof that there is a god is the story of Saint Juan Diego, the miracle of the roses. In this event, this poor Mexican man is sent by the Virgin Mary to give the town's bishop a message, the man does not believe Juan Diego, after insisting 3 times the virgin directs him toward Castilian roses that were nearby, she asks of him to put as much roses as he can into his cloak and use it to carry them toward the bishop as a gesture, once he does as she asked and carried the roses to the bishop and he opened his cloak, the image of the Virgin of Guadalupe was engraved in the cloak itself, Juan Diego was a poor man and had not the money to do such a thing, and even if he did, it would have taken at least a day to make such a detailed portrayal of her, the cloak can be seen to this day in the "Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe".
There is plenty of other proof and indicators that point the information conveyed in the bible to be truthful, but let us have in mind the oldest bible was found transcribed in ancient Aramaic, which was then transcribed to Hebrew, which was later translated into Latin, followed by a translation to each and every one of our current languages. All of those translations were based on the interpretations of the translators, so the bibles we currently have at our disposal are not completely accurate. above all of that, there is the main argument other religious people would have put their weight on, which obviously would be "faith" and blindly following the words in a modified and unclear book. i beg to differ, but i do see enough foundation to believe god exists.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SirNoodles518 3 years ago
SirNoodles518
@Dinis Honestly, I respect many of the Christian morals and try to live by them (e.g. not killing, not committing adultery). Whether I will start believing in Christianity again or not I am truly grateful for some of the morals I learned from my time being a Christian

In no way am I trying to be disrespectful but I doubt God is trying as hard as Christians say He is if He is all-powerful and all-loving. Surely an all-powerful and all-loving being who wanted us to be with Him forever would quit playing hide-and-seek and would show us the truth in a way that everyone can understand - not in some ambiguous way that could easily be misinterpreted.

I find it very difficult to have faith in something when A) It lacks sufficient evidence and B) The only evidence there is is riddled with contradictions and unreliable sources.

If God does exist I genuinely do hope He finds me. I want to be on the right path but at the moment no religion has fully convinced me yet. I hope I haven't come across as disrespectful because the last thing I'd do is criticise someone for their religious beliefs.
Posted by Dinis 3 years ago
Dinis
@SirNoodles518 God doesn"t respond by direct means in today"s time, His attempts to increase the faith of his followers through miracles have proven to be ineffective, as the hollow souls of many humans still refuse his Rulership even after witnessing them.

Rather, God has left us his Bible. Read it and reflect upon it, but as well, I find that the Jehovah"s Witnesses to be the most noble and truthful of any religion. Visit the site JW.ORG, and you will find answers.

God has foretold that men(meaning humanity) would be more selfish, aggressive, moral decayed, abusive, corrupt, and much more. (1 Corinthians), and has that not shown to be the case?
Are any of God"s moral laws harmful, to love your brothers, never to kill, never to lie, practice patience, and follow him. Yes, this may sound like common sense, but it"s not as common nowadays.

The apostle Paul stated a basic truth when he wrote that the Creator"s "invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world"s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that [opposers of truth] are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20)

Again, the Bible has not been disproven, something many of my opposers in a debate have failed to respond to. You must keep a faith and better yet, strengthen it.

It"s very difficult to believe in God in present times. Science is stating it was evolution not creation, people seeking material wealth, and much more.

God is patient with those like you, who are having a hard time accepting his existence. He will find the means to be with you. I am only the messenger, and I can only state for you to read his message.
Posted by Dinis 3 years ago
Dinis
@SirNoodles518 God doesn"t respond by direct means in today"s time, His attempts to increase the faith of his followers through miracles have proven to be ineffective, as the hollow souls of many humans still refuse his Rulership even after witnessing them.

Rather, God has left us his Bible. Read it and reflect upon it, but as well, I find that the Jehovah"s Witnesses to be the most noble and truthful of any religion. Visit the site JW.ORG, and you will find answers.

God has foretold that men(meaning humanity) would be more selfish, aggressive, moral decayed, abusive, corrupt, and much more. (1 Corinthians), and has that not shown to be the case?
Are any of God"s moral laws harmful, to love your brothers, never to kill, never to lie, practice patience, and follow him. Yes, this may sound like common sense, but it"s not as common nowadays.

The apostle Paul stated a basic truth when he wrote that the Creator"s "invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world"s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that [opposers of truth] are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20)

Again, the Bible has not been disproven, something many of my opposers in a debate have failed to respond to. You must keep a faith and better yet, strengthen it.

It"s very difficult to believe in God in present times. Science is stating it was evolution not creation, people seeking material wealth, and much more.

God is patient with those like you, who are having a hard time accepting his existence. He will find the means to be with you. I am only the messenger, and I can only state for you to read his message.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
@10001,

Isaiah 55:6-9 is wrongly attributed as if describing G-d beyond our reach. In context, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways," does not imply that it is impossible to connect with G-d, but rather, that unlike finite human beings, who find it hard to forgive and resist peace, G-d easily accepts both. If one sins, G-d tells us it"s no big deal, for "My thoughts are not your thoughts."

How can G-d's love not be true?
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
@Darkwolf,

This link debunks you:

http://rptimes.com...

The Aztecs DID prophesy - according to the Spanish victors, that is - that a white man with a beard would come to their lands in 1519. But just think of it: They also believed that this god was the creator of the 5th world, was Cortez the creator of worlds? Did he teach the Aztecs farming centuries before? Come on, let's get serious.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
@10001,

You stated that if we destroyed every religious text, we wouldn't be able to retrieve the information because it isn't truth.

Fine. So there's no truth in Torah. Let's test that.

In the Talmud, we find a story where a man told Rabbi Hillel that he'd convert to the faith if he could espouse all the teachings of Judaism in the time span of standing on one foot. Rabbi Hillel agreed, this is what he said: "What is hateful to yourself, do not do to your fellow man. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary, go and study." Meaning, go and study how to do love so that you can practice it.

Below are two verses from the Written Torah:

"You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Adonai." - Leviticus 19:18

What about non-Jews?

"The stranger who sojourns with you shall be as a native from among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Adonai, your G-d." - Leviticus 19:34

The Oral Law, that is, the Talmud, further commands us to protect each other, to build shelters and care for the ill; to not lie; to not be deceiving in business, even for Gentiles; to give charity; to keep promises; to save all lives, even on Shabbat; to care for animals and the land, and so on.

So my question to user 10001 is as follows: This is what Torah teaches, as most religions. It is truth, regardless if the faith itself is true or not, and if all the religious books were lost, this truth would never be forgotten. How could you disagree? Because if it's all just a "bunch of bs," as you say, then you'd have to agree that we shouldn't love each other, but hate each other.

Anything else, and you're just fooling yourself.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
@10001,

You stated that if we destroyed every religious text, we wouldn't be able to retrieve the information because it isn't truth.

Fine. So there's no truth in Torah. Let's test that.

In the Talmud, we find a story where a man told Rabbi Hillel that he'd convert to the faith if he could espouse all the teachings of Judaism in the time span of standing on one foot. Rabbi Hillel agreed, this is what he said: "What is hateful to yourself, do not do to your fellow man. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary, go and study." Meaning, go and study how to do love so that you can practice it.

Below are two verses from the Written Torah:

"You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Adonai." - Leviticus 19:18

What about non-Jews?

"The stranger who sojourns with you shall be as a native from among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Adonai, your G-d." - Leviticus 19:34

The Oral Law, that is, the Talmud, further commands us to protect each other, to build shelters and care for the ill; to not lie; to not be deceiving in business, even for Gentiles; to give charity; to keep promises; to save all lives, even on Shabbat; to care for animals and the land, and so on.

So my question to user 10001 is as follows: This is what Torah teaches, as most religions. It is truth, regardless if the faith itself is true or not, and if all the religious books were lost, this truth would never be forgotten. How could you disagree? Because if it's all just a "bunch of bs," as you say, then you'd have to agree that we shouldn't love each other, but hate each other.

Anything else, and you're just fooling yourself.
Posted by darkwolf 3 years ago
darkwolf
@Thumbnail how do you know? Maybe there are more and just 1 interacted with the founders of Christianity, see this is were the bias comes in typically most people assume there idea is right, but they never stop to think what if I'm wrong Other civilizations made predictions that came true the Aztec Prophecy of Quetzalcoatl coming came true, on the same day men with fair skin and facial hair arrived the same description, provided in the prophecy.
Posted by 10001 3 years ago
10001
If you were to destroy every book every religious book every science book. Eventually science will come back exactly the same because we will make the same observations and the truth will be uncovered once again. However religious text will never be the same because there is no truth to it. If you read the Bible such as Liviticus and Timothy you will see that it's all a bunch of bs.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
Just having fun.
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