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The Contender
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Aviators is the Best Artist

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2014 Category: Music
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,163 times Debate No: 48886
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)




This is a debate about whether or not Aviators is the best musician in the world. If you are not a Brony, or have never listened to him before, it would be a good idea to do so before you join this debate. Start by going here:

I will be waiting for an opponent to join. Take your time.


I accept and will take the position that Aviators is not the best musician in the world.

I look forward to a fun debate and wish my opponent the best of luck!
Debate Round No. 1


All right, but first, I would like to know exactly who you think is the best artist, because I cannot exactly make an argument without knowing what I am up against.

All I can say is this: Aviators (b. Tyler Shaw) is an independent musician that can tackle any genre from indie rock to orchestral to almost Dubstep-like electronic. His lyrics are very inspiring and the music he creates is from the soul and takes the mind and body to a new place that nothing else can. I think in order to have a legitimate argument, you should probably listen to him a little more. So here's the link again:

Browse the website a little (yes, I'm also talking to the viewers) until you can actually listen to some of his greatest pieces, such as his latest single "Red". By the way, thanks for that quite nice acceptance, and I too will be looking forward to a fun, challenging debate. Good luck to you too.


Unfortunately that information is top secret, plus it doesn't really matter who I think is better or the best because this is not an (x) vs. (y) debate. In this debate, you must prove why Aviators (b. Tyler Shaw) is the best musician in the world and I will be providing evidence to prove that he is not the best musician in the world.

Taste and preference in music is an extremely subjective matter, with literally multitudes of people liking different types and genres. I believe I have listened to him enough for a legitimate argument and still stand by my position that he is not the best musician in the world.

I eagerly await your argument.
Debate Round No. 2


All righty then. I argue that Aviators is the best artist for many, MANY reasons. I'd give you all of them, but time is of the essence, so I'll just state the main points of my argument.

One of these reasons is because, well, he is a Brony. And almost all of the MLP (My Little Pony) music I've listened to has been really inspiring, ESPECIALLY Aviators'. In fact, he was SO awesome and inspiring that he was the only one I thought of researching on other places other than Ponyville Live. And that, my friend, is probably the best thing in music I EVER possibly would have done. It started with the pony music, but later on I started listening to his non-MLP music, which is also very great; beautiful and awesome, such as one of his songs from "From All Sides": "Lights feat. Feather", which, to me, is the most beautiful love song you could ever listen to.

Another reason is the TALENT of that man. The guy started playing the violin when he was 4, then kept doing it for eight years before picking up the guitar and starting his musical career. He thought that playing the violin would keep him from reaching his dreams, but boy, was he wrong. So, yeah, sometime in 2005 he fiddled around with the stuff he had indie-rock style and the few songs he was able to belt out he said himself were "absolutely horrible" but to me (you can find those songs on Grooveshark), those songs were just awesome and groovy. His album after that, six years later, which is called "Reflections of a Dream" was pretty good. REALLY good.

And then...PONIES. Ever since he became a Brony and started belting out some pony music, the guy's just been a huge fandom sensation. He's got 3 albums full of pony music as of 2012 (two of them EPs, but it doesn't matter), and then, after some time of creating non-pony music, he came BACK with his biggest album yet, "Mirrors", which has the most awesome pony song I have heard in a while.

I'd tell you so much more about the music, but there's just too much great stuff to talk about. Aviators has been working with almost every single genre you could think of, sometimes even putting them all into the same songs. And that to me is one of the most important reasons why he is the absolute BEST artist in the world.

Nothing further; I shall wait for you to respond.


I would like to thank my opponent for presenting his argument and will now present mine.

My opponent has chosen to argue that Aviators is the best artist in the world. This is an extremely bold claim considering that the statement implies that there is no-one better than the artist known as Aviators on our entire planet. One must take into consideration that this topic falls heavily into the realm of the subjective, with everyone having different preferences and tastes in favorite music genres or artists. I will compare Aviators among the global scale of artists within our world to show that he is not, in fact, the best artist in the world. Because Aviators is mainly known as a musician, I will be comparing him to other musicians instead of other types of artists like painters or dancers.

I. Album sales and reception compared to other musicians in the same year of debut release.

According to the website provided by my opponent, Aviators has recorded 4 studio albums and 3 remix albums [1]. His debut album Reflections of a Dream released on December 20, 2011. While it has received generally good reviews, there are still reviews that can be seen giving the artist only 1 out of 5 stars [2]. This is not something that someone would expect to see if Aviators was indeed the best artist in the world. More importantly though, it seems that iTunes and his website are really the only main outlets he has at his disposal when it comes to selling his music albums. One would think that the best artist in the world would have his albums being sold throughout every major music store and would be easily found throughout the web.


Now lets look at some of the real best artists of 2011, the same year which Aviators released his debut album on iTunes.

According to the best artist of 2011 was Adele [3].
According to the best artist of 2011 was Katy Perry [4].
According to the best artist of 2011 was Adele [5].
According to the best new artist of 2011 was Cage the Elephant [6].

[6] 0870239

As it is clearly shown above, Aviators never received the title of best artist of the year. More importantly, he wasn't officially named once on any best artist list for 2011. This is not something that seems characteristic of the best artist in the world. You would think that if he was the best artist in the world that he would have atleast been recognized as that atleast once, but he wasn't because he isn't the best artist in the world. He wasn't in 2011 and he isn't in 2014 as I will show a little bit later.

II. Album sales and reception compared to other musicians in 2014.

According to the website my opponent provided earlier, Aviators released an Acoustic EP on February 20, 2014. This album seems to only be purchasable through his own vendor service via his website with the original post on his website receiving a grand total of 0 comments [7]. It seems that in 3 years since his first album was released he has still not received the global recognition or achievements that other artists have achieved within that same time frame. I will now list who the artists being recognized as the best in 2014 are:

According to the best digital album right now is Rick Ross 'Mastermind' [8].
According to the best artist to start listening to for 2014 is Bad Rabbits [9].
According to the best artist to watch for 2014 is Diane Birch [10].

Once again, it seems that Aviators has not been recognized as being the best artist nor is he even listed in any of these popular lists. This clearly reflects the fact that Aviators is not the best artist in the world. In all fairness, on the one outlet where is latest album is available for sale, he does have about 7 people praise his album [11]. One thing is certain though after looking at those comments, they are all fans of My Little Pony. This revelation raises the question: could it be that Aviators is nothing more than an artist who has a minor cult following thanks to his association with the show?


III. Aviators is nothing more than an artist who is mostly popular amongst My Little Pony fans.

My opponent made the bold claim that Aviators is the best artist in the world. I believe I have provided an adequate amount of evidence to show the audience that Aviators is not, in fact, the best artist in the world. Furthermore, I have come to believe that Aviators is mostly just a popular artist among My Little Pony fans. What has led me to this belief is that he has had no real recognition outside of the My Little Pony fans, and more importantly, has never once been recognized as the best artist in the world by any reputable source. Even Aviators himself admits that 99% of his fanbase is made up of 'bronies'. This is why he now makes 'brony music' [12].


In closing,

I have presented why I believe Aviators is not the best artist in the world. From providing evidence showing that no reputable sources agree with the claim made by my opponent, to providing evidence from the artist himself claiming that 99% of his fanbase are bronies. This leads me to the ultimate conclusion that Aviators is nothing more than a popular artist within the small frame of My Little Pony fandom compared to the much larger global frame of popularly recognized artists in which he remains literally unknown and unrecognized.

As per the request of my opponent, I will wait until Round 4 to post my rebuttals to his argument and look forward to continuing this debate with expanded arguments in the coming rounds.
Debate Round No. 3


JasonMartin-327 forfeited this round.


Unfortunately, my opponent has forfeited his round 4.

I will now present my rebuttals for my opponents argument from Round 3.

I. He is a Brony

My opponent's first main point in his argument was that Aviators is the best artist in the world because he is a brony. I would like to point out that that is the equivalent of making the claim that, "Mitt Romney would make a great president because he is a Mormon." The manner in which someone bases a personal preference for someone on the way they live their life is not, nor should be, a valid gauge for determining the quality of their talent. Someone might be the greatest debater in the world, but it is not because they are a brony or a Christian or a white person, it is because they have an amazing talent for debate. Which brings me to my opponents next point.

II. Aviators is the best artist because of his talent

Talent can be defined as: a special often athletic, creative, or artistic aptitude [1]

My opponent argues that Aviators is the best artist in the world because of his talent. He uses information suchas, "the guy started playing the violin when he was 4, then kept doing it for eight years before pick up the guitar and starting his musical career." Although this does involve skill, there have been many people who have come before him and still around today that have greater amounts of talent if that is the way my opponent wishes to measure talent. For instance,

1) Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - had mastered the keyboard and violin by the age of four, and then went on to compose music as early as the age of five while also performing for European royalty. [2] That requires considerably more talent than Aviator's early accomplishments.

2) Ethan Bortnick - began playing the keyboard at three, and was composing by five years old. At nine years old he became the youngest artist to have his own National PBS Concert Special. [3] That sort of accomplishment certainly requires more talent than what Aviator's had at nine years old.

3) Akim Camara - began playing the violin at the age of two, first performed at the age of three, and was already filling the seats of Radio City Music Hall by the age of five. [4] That is real talent my friend.


III. Ponies!!

The last real point my opponent made was, again, about him being a brony and the contributions he has made to the community as a whole. I pointed out in my argument that I believe that just because someone is popular is a sub-culture genre of music, that does not validate the claim that he is the best artist in the whole world. Please refer to my argument in round 3 if you wish to see an expansion on this point.

In Conclusion,

I have presented my rebuttals against my opponents argument in Round 3. Since my opponent forfeited his last round, I extend all my arguments as they currently stand unchallenged.
Debate Round No. 4


Okay, okay, all right...Now, at this point, one in my place would probably "cheat" and ask the person on the line for advice. Now, even though you probably wouldn't quite call that cheating, I did that anyway. I asked Aviators via email for any information or advice to use in this debate. Unfortunately, he didn't give me a whole lot, but no matter.

Ladies and gentlemen, take a minute to observe and study my opponent's argument and rebuttal. Now, a smart person like me, or at least someone with autism, like me, would probably see a lot of things missing in my opponent's argument. Now, the things he didn't miss, I get completely. So what if Aviators wasn't publicly named "Best Artist" in any of the years that he was active. But, as any Brony right in their mind would know, it takes MUCH more than just popularity to be the best artist. No no no no no, my fellow Bronies. Let us dig deeper into the subject of MLP and Aviators, shall we?

Even though Aviators is a stated Brony and has created mostly MLP music, I've heard some of his music that has absolutely nothing to do with MLP, so he is not just appropriate for Bronies, and even so, even his pony music is absolutely recommended for all people, because the music itself does have very little pony references, but, you know, it's just better to see it as pure, simple, nice pony music. (And his non-pony music? Some of it is VERY good; Doctor Who, for Bronies' sake!) And the music itself tells a lot about who Tyler Shaw is and just how much talent he has. I can't even count how much pony music he has made in the last two years, and, completely unlike other MLP artists (e.g. DJ PON-3, The Living Tombstone, ShadyVox), this music is completely appropriate for anyone at all. And, unlike most other Bronies trying to live an abnormal life, he himself stated to me in the email that he was a surprisingly normal person who just has a passion for creating unique music. Can you believe that? I seriously doubt I myself would ever grow up to be just like him, mainly because I have autism and I'm only passionate for creating MLP-related lyrics to popular songs.

And let's not forget the whole reason for existence of Bronies, which surprisingly hasn't turned up yet. But I think the reason for this peculiar phenomenon is to create a whole new species of people who see the world in a WHOLE different way than other people do. And autistic Bronies such as me, *heh heh* now that's something a lot of people would probably be interested in. People with autism have the power to change the world with the way that they see it. And that's what I'm doing right now, or at least planning to do; change the way that people see Bronies in this world. I must say, though, Aviators is doing a really good job of helping me do just that. And that, to me, is a very important characteristic that makes someone the definite best artist.

And the messages of all of his songs! It just penetrates deep into my heart and lets out all the red stuff to flow all throughout my body to get me going again. If only everyone in the world could easily be persuaded to believe the truth about how things are, because the way things are is constantly changing, and being an autistic Brony a month short of 14, I think I need to contribute to making these changes and making the truth more clear. And with the absolute coolness an innocence of MLP and Bronism (Listen to "The Adventure", "Second Chances", and "Just Like You" again if you haven't already), Aviators just won't stop helping with this huge issue. And THAT, I am emphasizing all I have said so far, is a huge part of the reason why he is the absolute, definite BEST artist in the world.

In conclusion, it takes more than what my opponent has outlined in his argument and rebuttals, and all that I have outlined in this round and so much more really defines who the best artist is, and I can safely say, backed up with all this evidence, that Aviators is, or at least will be, the best artist. Good luck trying to argue with that, my friend.


The claim that Aviators is the best artist in the world is one that falls into the realm of the subjective. When determining who, if anyone, is the best artist in the world there are usually two ways it can go:

1) You can appeal to the emotional aspect of subjectivity in which anyone and everyone always has different reasons for liking one artist more than another... usually for reasons that my opponent has made. Such claims made in this sense are usually followed by comments such as, "The artist just makes music that is relevant to my life". While there is nothing wrong with having preferences in music, what is wrong is basing an absolute claim on personal preferences - which is exactly what my opponent has done. Ultimately, his reason for making the claim that Aviators is the best artist in the world is because he is a fan of the show My Little Pony and because the artist in question, Aviators, is a major contributing artist of the My Little Pony fandom.

While there is nothing wrong with liking an artist more than any others, there is a problem with making an absolute claim and then failing to provide valid evidence to prove the accuracy of that claim. Because my opponent has made an absolute claim, and has failed to provide valid evidence to prove the accuracy of that claim using subjective means, it is a logical assumption that using subjective means of validating a claim that can be measured objectively is not the best method for debating such claims. This brings me to the next method for measuring the validity of claims like the one my opponent has made.

2) You can measure the accuracy of the statement made in terms of observations and experiments that can be verified. For the purpose of this case specifically, I have measured the validity of the claim made by my opponent in terms of album sales, public ratings and reception and total accomplishments and awards received. Each of those standards I set for determining the validity of my opponents claim are ones that can be measured and verified by others in an objective manner. By examining the artist using methods of comparing his own sales, ratings, reception, and accomplishments to that of other artists, I came to the conclusion that Aviators is not the best artist in the world. I have provided each source for referencing my claims and validating the accuracy of my statement. I believe the audience will agree that in terms of measuring the accuracy of absolute claims, objective analysis is the only way to truly validate such claims.

In Conclusion,

I believe that I chose the best method in which to determine the accuracy of the absolute claim made by my opponent. With over 7 billion people on this world, we are bound to run into someone every now and then who has different tastes in things such as favorite foods, colors, scents, and music. To argue that one artist is better than another, or the best in the world because you like them is a fruitless pursuit because ultimately we all have different preferences. We would never get anywhere in terms of progress if we didn't set in place standards from which to measure objects of competing natures. Those standards are what allow us to come to conclusions on such topics of discussion or debate.

Ultimately, this was a debate started by my opponent who made the bold claim that Aviators is the best artist in the world. As I have pointed out, such an absolute claim must stand up against all doubt, and must be proven to be accurate. I have presented evidence which proves that Aviators is not the best artist in the world, and thus have proven that my opponents statement does not meet the standards set for an absolute claim to be deemed accurate beyond any doubt.

I want to thank my opponent for this thought-provoking debate, and look forward to any and all challenges in the future.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 7 years ago
You made good points in the debate, but your mistake was thinking everyone shared the same opinion as you, which I have proven isn't the case. You think I don't agree because I'm not autistic? That's crazy. Aviators probably has hundreds of fans that aren't autistic... I just have different preferences in music, that's all. I have a really close friend named Jack who is also autistic and honestly I have better conversations with him over anyone else I know. People with autism have an extremely unique perspective on this world, and I don't doubt that someday this world could very well be overrun by bronies and autistic people, but your time for world domination has not yet arrived. Aviators is an excellent musician and artist, but he is not the best one in the whole world as I have already proven.
Posted by JasonMartin-327 7 years ago
Best of luck, huh? I can guess you probably don't have autism, because in my mind, I truly believe he is the best of the best, and nothing's going to stop me from trying to make the world believe so. I believe I did have the best of luck during this debate and I did have some EXCELLENT points, and I guess only certain people, who probably have autism, would see it like that. Curse you, laws of the world. One of these days, the world shall only run on TWO things, Bronism and Autism. Very soon the world shall know exactly who we are, the kindred of the autistic Bronies, and we will show the UNIVERSE who Aviators is and exactly what kind of recognizance he deserves. Until you shall someday decide to change your mind, I bid you farewell.
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 7 years ago
I'm honestly impressed that you actually emailed, and was able to communicate with, Aviators himself. I won't consider that cheating, it's cool man. Although in the future you might want to ask your opponent if that is alright before posting because I can see some people not being as cool with that as I am :)
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 7 years ago
Sorry, I didn't see the comment until after I posted my argument. A forfeit is a forfeit though, so even if I had I probably wouldn't have held off my rebuttals. I'm simply following the structure of debate. Best of luck in your last round though!
Posted by JasonMartin-327 7 years ago
Okay Okay Okay Okay Okay, I'm sorry I had to forfeit, time and the internet was, really not on my side during the weekend, so if you would just, you know, NOT post your rebuttals for this round and just let me post mine on Round 5, I would really appreciate that. There's something I forgot to tell you that is going to blow the ROOF off of this debate. Of course, to me; I'm not sure how that will affect you or any of your arguments, but I'm still not worried at all.
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 7 years ago
As you can see, my approach was to compare him to all the artists within relevance that might have also been fairly considered to be the best artists in the world. You can pick whichever one out of those if you'd like, but for the purpose of this debate I won't share who I actually think is the best because it's not my job to do that. My job is to prove that your initial claim is false.
Posted by JasonMartin-327 7 years ago
Also, I WOULD really like to know exactly who you think is the best artist so I can have at least a little better supply of material; I know it may not have sounded like it was meant for that, but that's what I want. I want to know who would dare come to me and say that there is an artist out there that's MUCH better than Aviators, and we're currently controlling exactly how that event plays through.
Posted by JasonMartin-327 7 years ago
Just do only your argument. I've already made a lot of good points in my argument, and I'm running out of them sooner than I expected. But I've still got a pretty strong point, so I'm not worried.
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 7 years ago
Would you like to me to post just my argument for round 3 or include my rebuttals? I'm not sure if I should include my rebuttals in this round or if I should wait until round 4 to post my rebuttals... I'll let you decide since you are the one who started this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Actionsspeak 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's claim is opinionated, and unpopular, and he forfeited a round.

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