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The Instigator
FanboyMctroll
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
MrMaestro
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

BREXIT is good for Engeland

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/26/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 515 times Debate No: 121027
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

FanboyMctroll

Pro

Brexit will be good for England. They can close their border to the flood of migrants, Keep a close eye on illegal immigration from the middle east. Also this will save England millions in EU fees.

Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU and they are countries that are well off and don't have to follow the rules imposed by big brother the EU, They can run their own countries as fit.

Borders are made for a reason, By not being in the EU you can close your border to floods of migration like the rest of Europe is seeing and not follow the rules imposed by EU but by laws and rules of each individual country. There is a reason we have so many countries around the world and why Europe is divided into so many countries, Because the Ottoman empire didn't work nor the Roman empire. The EU is trying to colonize all of Europe into one big nation. It's not going to work

Brexit will be good for England
MrMaestro

Con

Brexit will be bad for England, And the rest of the UK.

Now the actual consequences of Brexit largely depend on the deal they work out with the EU. They were supposed to leave the EU on March 29, 2019, However they've postponed this to April 12, 2019. Brittan postponed it because the economic and social impact of a hard "no-deal Brexit" are disastrous.

Trade

The EU allows open trade between all countries within the union. This is what makes the EU so attractive. By leaving the EU England would switch to WTO rules. That means the UK would have to pay tariffs (taxes paid to other countries) on all imported goods. This will increase the price of. . . Well everything not specifically produced in the UK. This is bad for businesses and people.

Travel

Leaving the EU will make travel more difficult for UK citizens. The EU would be free to set new passport and customs laws on the UK causing longer delays at borders.

There are 1. 3 million Britons in EU countries and 3. 7 million Europeans in Britain – in terms of their rights to live and work would be unclear. Professionals working in the EU might find their qualifications are no longer recognised. [1]


Economic Impact

According to Brittan's own estimates:

"The Treasury estimates that UK GDP would be between 5. 4% and 9. 5% of GDP lower after 15 years if we left the EU with no successor arrangement, With a central estimate of 7. 5%.

“The net impact on public sector receipts – assuming no contributions to the EU and current receipts from the EU are replicated in full – would be a loss of between £38bn and £66bn per year after 15 years, Driven by the smaller size of the economy. ” [2]




[1] https://www. Theweek. Co. Uk/fact-check/95547/fact-check-what-a-no-deal-brexit-really-means
[2] https://www. Theguardian. Com/politics/2016/oct/11/hard-brexit-treasury-66bn-eu-single-market
Debate Round No. 1
FanboyMctroll

Pro

In 2016, Britain paid in "13. 1 billion to the EU that it could have used at home on domestic structure.

By getting out of the EU and their free trade deals, England can be independent by establishing its own trade agreements and that most small and medium-sized firms, Which have never traded overseas, Would be freed of the regulatory burden that comes with EU membership.

Because of the open borders with the EU in 2016 there were 942, 000 eastern Europeans, Romanians, Bulgarians and Gypsies working and stealing in the UK, Along with 2. 93 million workers from outside the EU. China and India were the biggest source of foreign workers in the UK, That the pace of immigration had led to some difficulties with housing and service provision. By getting out of the EU fewer people would be coming to the country which would mean less competition for jobs among those who remained and, Potentially, Higher wages

The reason Europe has so many terrorist attacks is because of the open borders in the EU. By England getting out of the EU they could go back to having a regulated border to stop more terrorists from entering the country.
MrMaestro

Con

Thanks for your response.


Pro: "By getting out of the EU and their free trade deals, England can be independent by establishing its own trade agreements and that most small and medium-sized firms, Which have never traded overseas, Would be freed of the regulatory burden that comes with EU membership. "

If England wants to trade with any country in the EU, They will have to work out a trade deal first. They haven't been able to do that, At all, In the last 2 years. Both sides are now preparing for a "No-deal Brexit".

England would be volunteering to pay more for imports (because now they have to pay external tariffs). All commercial goods shipped to/from the UK would be subject to much stricter WTO regulations. Shipping times would increase, Because now all goods will have to go through border checkpoints. Trade is a major benefit of the EU.

Brexit sacrifices the benefits of open trade for increased border control.

---

Pro: "By getting out of the EU fewer people would be coming to the country which would mean less competition for jobs among those who remained and, Potentially, Higher wages"

Only true if:
1. You kick out all the immigrants that have already entered England (which England won't do), And
2. The economy improves under Brexit (according to England - it won't [2]).

---

There are so many logistical problems with Brexit. We haven't even talked about the problem with new checkpoints and borders in between North/South Ireland (I suspect that's why you specified England).

Brexit is bad for trade, Bad for people travelling, And bad for the Economy.
Debate Round No. 2
FanboyMctroll

Pro

I appreciate your response, So here is my final debate round

Security of the country is more important than trade. Just look at what is happening in the rest of Europe. The migrant crisis is reaching epic proportions all the way to France because the borders were open and the migrants came cross all borders unobstructed. From Italy and Turkey through the rest of open Europe through the poorer nations all heading for England the most prosperous country in the EU.

A border crossing with northern and southern Ireland is also critical in keeping the IRA at bay and controlling movement of people. Open borders are a disaster for security reasons. It might be easier to cross borders for regular travelers but lets look at the Sicilian mafia, They are now free to roam all over Europe, The Russian mafia has open borders to travel to England right now and poison people with polonium. The Gypsies can roam all around Europe without obstruction. And finally the migrants from the middle east including ISIS can freely cross from Turkey to anywhere in Europe.

Everybody is complaining about Brexit until the bombs go off in France and England or a 1000 women are raped in Germany over the holidays because there is no control at the border.

Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU and they are doing excellent. Not everyone needs to be in a big EU boys club. Countries all separated a long time ago because people couldn't get along. Yugoslavia split into 6 countries because they couldn't get along, Who says we need to make one big Europe country? Have we not learned from the Roman empire, From the Ottoman empire. Countries are created every decade in Africa, In the past in South America. Panama did not want to be part of Columbia so they created their own country with a border.

Not having borders or having open borders is a bad idea. That's like not having a fence with your neighbor. And besides why should England pay 13 billion euros to the EU, How much is Romania and Bulgaria paying? Nothing.

England is a rich prosperous country, They don't need to be part of the EU clan that is suffering from migrant invasions and terrorism. Besides other countries are pulling out too, Poland and Sweden mentioned they might pull out next.

You can have your own country so why would you want to be under the thumb of the Hague and the big brother EU.

England will prosper without the EU like they have done for hundreds of years just ask Switzerland and Norway about it.

The EU is FAKE NEWS and bad and 50% of the British agree with me and want out
MrMaestro

Con

Your main argument seems to be that (security > all other concerns).

"
Security of the country is more important than trade"

This is where I simply cannot agree with you. The long-term damage to the economy, And the resulting affect that will have on the peoples lives, Far outweighs short-term damage caused by immigration.


"A border crossing with northern and southern Ireland is also critical in keeping the IRA at bay and controlling movement of people"

Both sides of this issue have agreed that they don't want a border between the Irelands. Physical barriers of any kind would violate 1998 Peace Agreements. Even harsh checkstops are opposed because of the massive disruption to traffic, And because it would strongly ignite political tensions.

---

Brexit is a complex multi-sided issue with a lot to consider. Your concerns are valid, And I understand why England wants more border control. However, I would argue that your position doesn't consider the full picture. You need to account for the massive loss to trade, The affect of delayed transit and delayed travel times, The rights of ex-pats living outside the UK, The damage to small businesses caused by tariffs, The list goes on.

I argue that your position is over-simplified. Brexit has massive, Dangerous implications to all of the above. This is all made worse by the fact that the UK and the EU have been unable to come to any sort of agreement in the last 2 years. With just two weeks left I hope they can sort something out.

A "hard" Brexit would be terrible for England.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Granville 2 years ago
Granville
One thing the referendum has definitely delivered a sadly divided UK. Whether you're a Brexiteer or a Remainer let's hope we end up at very least as good as things were in 2015! . . . Whatever happens for hundreds of years we in England have always managed to live together relatively peacefully so let's all remember that and work hard to maintain that!
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
lol
Posted by Unstobbaple 3 years ago
Unstobbaple
Hopefully Engenland is profiting under England's disastrous vote.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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