The Instigator
KaziTheSpaceGod
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
WrickItRalph
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Being Trans is a mental illness

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
WrickItRalph
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/22/2019 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,232 times Debate No: 120439
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (3)

 

KaziTheSpaceGod

Pro

Being transgender is an mental illness because your'e believing that you was suppose to born an another gender than what you are.
WrickItRalph

Con

Christians believe that God is sending them to heaven or hell. Are they mentally ill? No they're not, They're just mistaken. It's the same case with transgender. They think that they feel like a certain gender when it's impossible to actually feel like a gender. This is not an illness, It's the result of societal constructs warping our perception of the truth. Through the ages, We've told society that men have to work, Have short hair, And not show their emotions. We've told women that they have to be emotional, Wear dress, And be homemakers. This is the root cause of being trans. Women are not emotional, People are emotional. Women don't wear dresses, People wear dresses. So when a man wants to wear dresses and make up and be gentle, Etc. In his mind, He think he was suppose to be a woman, Because society has convinced him that's women behavior. But society is wrong. Now there might be people that have a mental illness and the illness becomes a factor in them picking up a trans lifestyle, But that's not the same thing. Plus it's extremely rare. The gender confirmation surgery's also happen because of societal pressure because people are making the person think that's the ticket to being the gender they want. But again, They're only chasing that dream because society keeps telling the genders how they're suppose to act. So really the whole problem is on the Christians and other old worldly power structures that keep imposing gender norms on the society. Let the people dress and act how they want and stop calling it a mental illness just because you don't know why they're doing it.
Debate Round No. 1
KaziTheSpaceGod

Pro

Believing you're supposed to be the opposite gender is gender dysphoria. Which when you are having problems defining your gender. Many people who are transgender tells me their was supposed to be born as the opposite gender or they feel unsatisfied with who their are. However you can not even use religion to balance the argument because that what many people was born into and was encourage to be in.
WrickItRalph

Con

I explained the logical justifications for adding religion into the argument, So you cannot tell me that I'm not allowed to use them. My statement stands. Dysphoria is when your body image doesn't match up to your body. Your comment about people telling they feel like a certain is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything. If I say that I feel like a potato, Is that evidence for potato dysphoria? No, Because you can't feel like a potato. Dysphoria can happen after a gender confirmation surgery, But this has nothing to with the mindset they had prior. In the case, The mental illness would be caused by the surgery and not their belief about their gender. So your argument is a non sequitur because there is no link between the two. If gender is defined by one's genitals, Then you can't feel like your genitals. If gender is defined as a state of mind, Then it can technically be a spectrum, But only because the brains has a spectrum. So in this case, Gender and brain state would be the same thing and would have nothing to do with genitals. When people say they feel like a gender, They talking about gender rolls that society imposes and they don't know it. But nothing in this descriptions makes it a mental disorder and any case of a trans person with a mental disorder, Every case can be shown to attribute the disorder with something besides being trans.

Just let the people have their clothes and surgeries and stop telling them they're crazy please. If I can smoke cigarettes and skydive, Then I see no problem with people getting strange surgeries, Even if I think it's a bad idea. Because my opinion in the matter is irrelevant to them and it should be as well.
Debate Round No. 2
KaziTheSpaceGod

Pro

I love you daddy
WrickItRalph

Con

Well since you didn't respond, I'm going to make an educated guess and say that you either: changed your position, Realized your argument was bad, Don't take this debate seriously, Or you just wanted to preach about your intolerance.

I'm going to filibuster for a second and point out that transgender people are not hurting anybody and they can think just as logically as us. They can feel emotions just as good as us. There is no reason to say they have a mental illness just because you don't agree with how they're living their lives. Christian values and societal pressure is what cause them to be this way in the first place. If everybody would just stop imposing gender roles and societal norms, Then we wouldn't even be having this debate. Because you wouldn't even know what a trans person was. They would just be people because you're not defining them by what they wear or how they act or what they believe. Judge people by their actions only and do it on an individual basis and if their actions don't hurt anyone, Then just keep walking and leave them be.

Good debate, Although I would like to have seen more contention out of my opponent. I feel like you barely pushed back.
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
I know. That's why I answered so casually. We both know that we're just exchanging thoughts.
Posted by Country-of-dummies 3 years ago
Country-of-dummies
I understand @Ralph! Don't worry about me, I just put ideas out there. . .
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@Country. You said "Why do atheists never enter this equation? Why can't it be said that atheists are the ones denying reality? "

Fair Question. I didn't say they were denying reality. I said they were being irrational. I want to be clear on this. It's not irrational because you believe in God. It's because you believe in god without sufficient evidence.
Posted by Country-of-dummies 3 years ago
Country-of-dummies
oh, The brain is different from the genitals. . . Oh, I had no idea wrickitRalph. . . LOL. . .

uh, So, Believing in deity is not conforming with reality? HA ha ha. . . Try to prove that one why don't ya. . . We live in a so called "christian nation, " so, Americans are all crazy right? Yeah. . . No, That's not likely. . .

Why do atheists never enter this equation? Why can't it be said that atheists are the ones denying reality? Huh, Bet no one ever thought about that. . . What if Christians and atheists and Buddhists and evolutionists are denying reality? Are we all crazy? Actually, That might be the case. . .

I would like to say something straight out here. . . GENDER IS GENITALS. That is why when a baby is born, The doctor says. . . MALE or FEMALE. . . Not. . . "This baby is whatever it decides to be when it grows up. " The thought that this is not true is what @gunslinger was referring to when he said these people deny reality.

Allow me to put in another thought here. Even if you are a boy change your gender to a girl, Is it not true that medically and scientifically, You are still a boy? Why would I say that? Because bone structure alone tells what gender is. In forensics, Which I am really into, Medical examiners determine the gender of deceased, Mummified individuals by bone structure. Women's ribs are smaller than men's, Women's bones are skinnier than men's, The pelvic region is different, Etc. As a matter of fact, Anyone who took a simple biology class in school knows that there is a difference between males and females. You may change cosmetics, But you cannot change the chassis.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@UnicornGod. I agree that brain structure is different than genitalia. But Gender has always been defined by genitals. You cannot just change colloquial speech, It either develops over time or it doesn't. It's an unnecessary conflation of terms. If there is something in the brain that makes us different, Then it should get it's own name and it probably already does have it's own name. You're only making this argument BECAUSE you think there's a connection to the two, If there isn't, Then why would we conflate the term?
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@Slinger. False. We do not necessarily call someone crazy when they don't think in accord with reality. If that was the case, There'd be a lot of Christians in mental institutions right now that aren't.
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
THe things people used to define gender has always been biological sex, Not clothing and makeup.
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
When one's mind does not conform with reality, We say that person has a mental problem.

When a guy think's he's female, That's not conforming to reality.
Posted by unicorngod 3 years ago
unicorngod
sighhhhhh
I SAID that brain scans uncover brain structure. Not one someone is thinking, Which is why even if a 10 year old is confused about their gender identity, They can take a brain scan. Also the premise of my argument was that your genitals aren't associated with your brain structure. I'm literally saying that we shouldn't determine someone's gender by their genitalia and it seems you agree that anatomy doesn't associate with how your brain is structured. That is not it's only purpose I already said a lot of doctors and scientists say it medically makes no logical sense since some of the world is intersex and some of the world is transgender. There is known to be structural and neurological differences in a male and female brain it has nothing to do with mental illnesses. Also I hope you were being sarcastic about homosexuality being some sort of structure in the brain. Sexual orientation is a social construct it's not really a biological thing.

How am I pushing an agenda if there's a whole world of scientists and doctors who agree with me-and shall I point out have medical evidence-that people who are trans don't decide to be trans. It's different with people's religious beliefs and sexual preferences because that doesn't determine the way their brain is. Transgender people are NOT mentally ill. They have a medical condition of having a female brain in a male body or a male brain in a female body. There are differences in the male and female brain which is how someone's gender identity is determined.

Gender is not genitals I have said that multiple times.

I also want to point out that trans individuals can be a trans male and feminine at the same time. But gender is not a social construct. People can act however they want. But males and females are biological different which is why a trans individual would have Gender Dysphoria. Why the heck are you accusing me of calling people with differing opinions "mentally ill"? I didn't say anything like t
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
Gender is Genitals and People are People.

Wearing dresses is a people thing, Not a girl thing.
Make up is a people thing, Not a girl thing
Aggression is a people thing, Not a guy thing
Emotion is a people thing, Not a girl thing, And suppressing emotion is not a guy thing.

These are the things that people often use to define "gender" They are social constructs and they are useless. Judge people by the morality of their actions and that's it and stop calling people with differing opinions mentally ill. I see Atheists and Christians doing this to each other too. It's just stupid.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by EverlastingMoment 3 years ago
EverlastingMoment
KaziTheSpaceGodWrickItRalphTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con has clearly provided a far more substantial argument which was barely countered by Pro at all. Pro's only point regarding gender dysphoria was routinely covered by Con. And since Pro decided to essentially send a troll message for his last round, this pretty much qualifies for poor conduct and concession.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
KaziTheSpaceGodWrickItRalphTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Countering a poor vote.
Vote Placed by kwbc 3 years ago
kwbc
KaziTheSpaceGodWrickItRalphTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Kazi is a boring troll

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