The Instigator
RationalMaterialist
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Red_Fox
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Belief is Delusion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Red_Fox
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/28/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 413 times Debate No: 120077
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

RationalMaterialist

Pro

Belief is a delusion.

I will stipulate two words as the basis for my argument:

'Belief' is to think something is true without evidence that corresponds with the actual allegation.

To 'know' is to think something is true when evidence corresponds with the actual allegation.

When a persons says they believe something is true, It's obvious they don't know what they are talking about and are delusional.
Red_Fox

Con

I accept the challenge and welcome the debate. I especially hope we can stay as brief as your opening.

How is belief ("I believe. . . ") any different from opinion ("I think. . . ")? It seems that both are not reality-based, Otherwise they would be knowledge ("I know. . . "). Further, What about when "evidence corresponds" with my belief or opinion? In this case, Belief coexists with knowledge. The mere fact that I am unaware of the evidence should not mean that I am deluded.

I am surprised that you didn't define the most important word for the debate: delusion. I assume you don't mean that "Belief is [an act of deceiving someone]. " I suppose you mean something like "delusion" = "a false belief. " That said, My supposition is possibly a delusion (is supposition also in the group with belief and opinion? ).
Debate Round No. 1
RationalMaterialist

Pro

Thank you for accepting Red_Fox.

I will address your questions with arguments:

Belief is a subset of thinking; knowing is a subset of thinking. Thinking is generalized thought, Where belief and knowledge are specific forms of thought.

When evidence corresponds qualitatively and quantitatively with the allegation it is knowledge, Fact, Truth. When evidence is insufficient is does not correspond qualitatively and quantitatively with the allegation.

I would agree that being unaware of evidence is not grounds for delusion, But believing-thinking something is true without corresponding evidence-is delusion.

When I defined belief I equated it with delusion. I argue it has all the same properties relevant to this argument.

I don't mean belief is an act of deceiving someone. Deceiving requires intent to present something as true but knowing it is false. Belief is presenting something as true, But not having sufficient evidence or any evidence at all to assert it as true.
Red_Fox

Con

You named your debate: "Belief is Delusion. "

In Round 1 you alleged: "Belief is a delusion, " but only defined one of the two nouns.

In Round 2 you alleged that delusion and belief have "all the same properties relevant to this argument. "

To be honest, There is no argument so far, Since you have done nothing but provide a thesis and an incomplete list of definitions. You failed to mention a single property that belief and delusion share. Further, You offer no rule for relevance.

To me, It sounds like you have no corresponding evidence for your allegations. I guess that makes your belief that "Belief is Delusion" a delusion!
Debate Round No. 2
RationalMaterialist

Pro

RationalMaterialist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by WhereDoWeBegin 3 years ago
WhereDoWeBegin
The instigator begins his argument with a non-standard definition of belief. Merriam Webster provides three definitions:

1) a state or habit of mind in whichtrust or confidence is placed in some person or thing

2) something that is accepted, Considered to be true, Or held as an opinion

3) conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Note that evidence only plays a role -- a positive one -- only in the third definition.

Since the instigator's definition doesn't comport with any of the standard definitions, The instigator will need some justification for it if he expects us to accept his definition. He provides none; he merely asserts his definition.

In fact, No one beloved a proposition without evidence of reason. It may turn out on closer examination to be bad evidence or insufficient reason, But certainly no one believes something for no reason at all.
Posted by Surgeon 3 years ago
Surgeon
Nah belief is not delusional. Knowledge is a category we reserve for provable things in maths, Deductive logic and axioms, Eg in know I exist. Belief is based on inductive reasoning, Evidence and empiricism (note evidence is not proof) eg i believe there are other minds apart from mine but cannot prove it. Faith is based on empty assertions and can actively run contrary to evidence, I have faith that I will not die today. None of these are necessarily delusional.
Posted by PointProven 3 years ago
PointProven
Not all belief is delusion. Scientists "believe" that the current best explanation for the origin of our universe is the big bang. This is technically a "belief", And yet it is based in logic, Reason, And evidence.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
RationalMaterialistRed_FoxTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Debate arguments never seemed to quite get fleshed out to me. But Pro did forfeit a round without reason given, so conduct point to Con.

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