The Instigator
billsands
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheGabe1e
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Bernie Sanders is not a Socialist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheGabe1e
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/9/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 478 times Debate No: 119415
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

billsands

Pro

I like Bernie I agree with Bernie on his policies, But the term socialist is so misused today. H e doesnt advocate changing a market system to a state system, He merely advocates radical reforms, To our present Capitalist mixed economy to make it more like Canada or Europe, Not to make it like Cuba, Venzuela or, North Korea, Or even China, Social democracy is very very different than socialism. . Or do you disagree?
TheGabe1e

Con

Let's define the term "socialist".

Socialist - one who advocates or practices socialism. [1]

What's "socialism"?

Socialism - any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. [2]

ARGUMENT

First off, Let's remember that Bernie himself said he was a "democratic socialist. " [3] Democratic socialism is a type of socialism that just believes in a more libertarian point of view. DSA describes democratic socialism as, "Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them. " A collective ownership and administration. This is similar to the definition of socialism.

Therefore, If Bernie advocates for democratic socialism, He is indeed a socialist.

(Couldn't post links due to character limit)

[1] and [2] - Merriam-webster

[3] - Politifact


Debate Round No. 1
billsands

Pro

billsands forfeited this round.
TheGabe1e

Con

That's unfortunate. I will extend my arguments in order to make it fair.
Debate Round No. 2
billsands

Pro

Hitler pretended to be socialist, Didnt make him one, North korea claims to be democratic so did east germany, Mussolini for the record claimed to be right wing once he switched to fascism, Trump claimed to be honest so did clinton. Its not that Bernie is lieing he has like almost everyone else has musued a word, If you ask a REAL socialist a laft wing marxist or anarchist of benie is a socialist they will laugh, Its like people who claim the democratic party is left wing. . Though what it proposes in its platform would be solidly center right in any European nation, And that the test. . Here is my winning argument. . The Prime Minister of Denmark got angry when Bernie claimed Denmark was a successful model of Democratic Socialism. . The pIME mINISTER IS a member of the conservative-liberal party and does everything he can to cut tax rates and lower welfare spending and improve the business climate. . Hardly socialistic. .
TheGabe1e

Con

REBUTTAL/ARGUMENT

Hitler claimed to be a socialist in order to compete with the communists, Who held a majority of the vote in Germany at the time. Bernie has no competition (among left wing parties at least), And voluntarily calls himself a socialist.

My opponent then goes on about people claiming stuff they aren't, But Bernie's view on policies line up with socialist ideals [1]:

- Demanding corporations pay a higher tax rate, As well as fighting for pay equity, Which is a largely socialist idea. [2]

- Making tuition free, A largely democratic socialist idea. [3]

- Expanding social programs
, A largely democratic socialist idea. [4]

And countless others (can't post cause of character limit), Use [1] to see them.

As for Denmark,

Bernie was referring to the socialist elements of Denmark in place. For example, free tuition, high income tax, Etc. Yes, Denmark is a market economy, But Bernie was highlighting the socialist elements of the country like their social programs.

Thank you for the debate.

Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TheGabe1e 3 years ago
TheGabe1e
Citations for the last argument:

[1] - https://berniesanders. Com/issues/

[2] - https://socialist-alliance. Org/alliance-voices/pay-equity

[3] - https://legalinsurrection. Com/2018/11/young-democratic-socialists-of-america-argue-free-tuition-would-stimulate-economy/

[4] - https://www. Huffingtonpost. Com/andrei-markovits/on-socialism-social-democ_b_8399576. Html

Policies on Denmark: https://www. Bing. Com/search? Q=denmark+tax+rate&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=c4daec13ea47472bbb936abaef5f094b&cc=US&setlang=en-US&PC=HCTS
Posted by TheGabe1e 3 years ago
TheGabe1e
Correction to first argument btw,

I meant to say, "DSA describes democratic socialism fighting capitalism as, "
Posted by TheGabe1e 3 years ago
TheGabe1e
If you want the links:

[1] - https://www. Merriam-webster. Com/dictionary/socialist
[2] - https://www. Merriam-webster. Com/dictionary/socialism
[3] - https://www. Politifact. Com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
billsandsTheGabe1eTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con clearly set out his points whereas Pro does not. Con used sources and an explanation to get the point across. Pro did also forfeit while also going off topic. The topic was if Bernie Sanders was a socialist or not. What Pro did was talk about Mussolini and Hitler which was not needed but Con did also rebut. Sources were given but could not be clearly seen. I'll just add that for another reason why I should give Con the conduct point.

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