The Instigator
FanboyMctroll
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
Anonymous
Winning
3 Points

Best method of stopping gun violence

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Anonymous
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2018 Category: People
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 738 times Debate No: 118699
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

FanboyMctroll

Pro

The best method and most effective method for stopping gun violence is to make an example of the culprit and their entire family.

Since half of America is in love with guns and they will never get rid of their guns, Because of the beliefs of the tyrannical government, The militia Waco types, And the fact the 2nd amendment (which is 300 years old) says they should have guns, Therefore these people will never give up their guns, They would rather go down in flames like Ruby Ridge or Waco than give up guns, I propose a better alternative of eliminating gun violence.

Since most gun lovers and enthusiasts will use any excuse to keep their guns, (it's the mentally ill, Better security checks, Stricter rules, Limit of type of guns, Etc etc) anything to keep their guns, Yet the gun violence is still increasing over the years and the spree killings record keep raising from Columbine, To Sandy Hook, To Virginia Tec, To Las Vegas, We are up to 58 dead after that one, And because of the staunch opposition by the gun enthusiasts, I have come up with the best method of gun control. Making examples of culprits and their families.

To elaborate more on this I propose, For every gun violence culprit, Since they usually kill themselves after the shooting, I propose we kill 10 family members of the culprit to set an example to all future suspects. You want to go shoot up a place, You might think twice when we kill you and 10 people of your family, Your father, Your mother, Your grandparents, Your brothers and sisters by government run lethal injection, To make an example of you. Since most gun owners/shooters always get influenced from family, The family should be just as responsible for the heinous acts committed by the shooter. People don't just go out and buy guns without some type of influence. Most gun owners can attribute their passion of guns from their parents, Sometimes generations of family members pass down their weapons to children and teach them to shoot. Therefore they are just as responsible as the shooter for the killings.

The Columbine shooters used their parents guns, The Sandy Hook shooter used his mothers guns, , Eric Fein used his fathers gun, The family members are just as responsible for these deaths. Therefore you kill people, We kill you and 10 family members to set an example to society.

Just like during Nazi Germany, If one prisoner escaped from a concentration camp, 10 or 50 other prisoners were killed in retaliation and to set an example and to stop future escapes.

I say we kill 10 family members of the culprit to set an example for future shooters. "Hey you want to kill people, Well we will wipe out your entire family for it" They probably influenced the shooter anyway by handing him a gun or having guns in the home.

The culprits might think twice about starting gun violence when they realize that when they pull the trigger, They are essentially pulling the trigger on 10 family members.

This needs to become the precedent for gun violence.

Con

First of all, Thanks for this very interesting debate. It will be nice to debate someone on the other end this topic.

After reading through your argument, I was pretty surprised that you proposed such a gruesome approach. You were somewhat right at the beginning though. The US owns more than half the world"s guns, They love their guns, But when it comes to the facts, That is when you start to fade away. From a research article written by the Bureau of Justice Statistics written in 2013, Shows that since the late 90s, Gun violence has actually decreased throughout the years, For both fatal and non-fatal victims (https://www. Bjs. Gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311. Pdf). So the fact that gun homicides are decreasing show that the society is changing. The reason there is an increase in gun VIOLENCE, Is because of an increase in suicides. Guns are proved to be the easiest, Painless way to end it, And more people are using it to their advantage.

I had also wanted to point out before I get to your main point, That the main reason many people think mass shootings are increasing is because the MSM likes to televise these sort of events. These typically gets more views than their average broadcast, So from a financial standpoint, This is like a jackpot for them. Getting to spend roughly a week or two talking about one shooting is enough for to remember the last time it had happened. The MSM, What I believe, Tries to draw out this shooting for as long as it can so it seems like each shooting is happening more frequently than it actually is. Most of the MSM is left-leaning, So there is really no surprise as to why they would do this.

Now, What you proposed was an attack towards the shooters family, More specifically you call that "we kill 10 family members of the culprit to set an example to all future suspects. " First of all, I believe this impedes ones rights according to the 8th Amendment. I would say that this is more unusual more than cruel, Yet it technically would count as both. For the state to go out, Capture, And lethally inject someone, All because someone in their blood relation did something bad, Is cruel.

Also, Killing the family members of a shooter would not really do anything. If anything, That would inject fear into parents with mental ill, Abused, Or bullied children. Most of these shooters are not trying to kill specific people, They just want to do the most amount of damage, Kill as many people as they can. And as you said, "they usually kill themselves after the shooting. " Before the shooting, They have mentally prepared themselves with the fact they will face death. And once this point hits, They will have no regard for anyone"s life, Even their own family"s lives.

You also state that the Columbine shooter, Sandy Hook shooter, And Eric Fein all got their guns from their parents. I can guarantee that all those parents got those guns legally. That they went through the screening process, Had background checks, And legally bought their guns. For them to be responsible for their own family members as well is just an extra, Unnecessary step to the process.

I was also very suprised that the plan you proposed had Nazi origins. The fact that you want to follow the most gruesome fascist regime when approaching gun violence already raises red flags. The Nazis killed more people because they wanted to prevent people from leaving. The camps were very cruel and the Jews faced hard labor. This situation that you propose, Does not put the shooter at risk, But the family members. They will be way more cautious and aware, And to force the state to invoke violence to stop violence just won't work. Hate does not draw out hate.
Debate Round No. 1
FanboyMctroll

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent in taking on this controversial debate. So lets continue the discussion

I will agree with CON that today's shooting are covered in more detail and more stories are televised about each event and the coverage does take more days on the news as opposed to shootings in the past. But the spree shootings have increased in victim body count as the years have gone by. We went from 13 dead in Columbine, To 42 dead in Virginia Tec to 58 in Las Vegas, Obviously the spree shooters do not seem to be deterred by regulations, Back ground checks and stricter gun laws.

The shooters don't care about people around them and leave many victim families with life time of sorrow. Someone has to pay for these shootings. And since most of the time the shooter commits suicide at the end or suicide by cop, There is really no deterrence for future disgruntled shooters. By at least making it law that family members will receive a death sentence of lethal injection, Or better yet firing squad, The shooter might think twice before posting that manifesto and going out to kill people.

We need accountability, We need deterrence, To prevent these spree shootings. Right now there is no deterrence.

In China a killer that is eventually tried and convicted and received the death penalty by firing squad, The family of the killer is issued a bill for the execution costs.

Parents are responsible for their kids, Columbine, The kids were minors, The guns were from their parents, The parents are responsible for those kids, Yet they did nothing to stop the shootings.

CON mentioned the mentally ill, Well parents are still responsible for their kids and mental illness, It's not up to the state to monitor YOUR children, Or mentally ill adult kids.

Parents need to take responsibility for their children and be aware what those children are doing, Are they posting hate manifestos or stocking up on guns in their rooms. It's not the states responsibility to be chasing after the fact. Parents can be proactive.

Unfortunately most ideas on the world and hate for certain people stems from brain washing by the parents. Eric Fein was brain washed by his hateful father for years before he killed 2 police officers. Now the victims families are suing Fein's father for damages. Well I propose we take it a lot further and execute the trash parents who (although didn't pull the trigger) manipulated their son into killing people. The same goes for TJ Lane, The school shooter, He grew up in a trailer park white trash home, Where he was beaten and abused for years. Those parents created TJ Lane "The killer" who wore that t-shirt in court while being sentenced. These are all products of the parents. The parents are rarely innocent in these cases.

And this is why even though the parents didn't pull the trigger, They are directly responsible for what their children did. The years of mental and physical abuse has created this damaged child. Just look at Ed Gein, The famous serial killer, Abused as a child, Most serial killers were abused.

The final result is crime by the suspect, But the parents are ALWAYS to blame. Therefore we need to wipe out that whole family who created the monsters.

A kid does not get up one morning and say "I need a gun, And I'm going to kill people" Gun violence starts with manifestation of child abuse started by the parents and family. Therefore they are just as responsible for the shootings.

Therefore lets execute the whole family and stop the dysfunctional families and their breeding of serial killers, Spree shooters and violent offenders. No child is born with anger and hate, That is taught and observed from their parents. Therefore the parents are always to blame for most shootings.

We want to stop the shootings, Lets stop it at the origin, The toxic family. And lets make an example of them to the whole world. Your kid kills people, We kill you and 9 other family members, Lets purify the toxic society

And I'm more than willing to be the executioner on the death squad to take out the shooters 10 family members, Why should I feel any sympathy for them? What about the victims families.

Let that be a deterrent to future shooters, You want to go out and shoot people, Well we kill your entire family as punishment!

Maybe then the shooter might think twice before going out there to kill people.

Con

I don"t know why but it won"t post my debate. This is the third time I"m doing this so hopefully it works.

I would like to quote my last argument, Where I said "They have mentally prepared themselves with the fact they will face death. And once this point hits, They will have no regard for anyone"s life, Even their own family"s lives. " This moment for when the face death can be right before their shooting, A day before, A week, Even a month out. Once this point hits, There is no turning back for them. They will set out and do their plan, And ignore anything that happens in their daily routine.

In your previous argument, You bring up abuse. You state that "The same goes for TJ Lane, The school shooter, He grew up in a trailer park white trash home, Where he was beaten and abused for years. " You then say later that "The years of mental and physical abuse has created this damaged child. " In the case where a shooter was previously abused by their family, The method of killing family members would be completely ineffective. If anything, It would fuel them to want to create a mass shooting. They would hate their parents, And they would want them gone, Even dead. If we were to enact this method of yours, It would cause a spike in shootings. Even for children and teens who did not have the incentive to cause such an atrocity, This would make these kids want to shoot up a place even more. Kids who are abused are left mentally damaged. Playing the cards in these kids favor will certainly not help decrease the number of shootings.

I would also like to add my take on the best method to stop a shooting. Since many kids who are mentally damaged or ill probably won"t tell an adult or seek help, We will need to stop the shooter before he kills. I believe we should have at least one gun on the premise. If we are talking about a school, For example, I would not want teachers to be armed. This would cause anxiety and stress for the students. They already have enough of that, We should not give them more anxiety. Therefore, This gun should be stored in a safe location that only teachers are able to access. This place could be a safe, Hidden in a storage closet, Or in the main office. This gun should always be placed somewhere that requires some sort of key, Code, Or combination to get in (or all three). Students should not be able to 1) easily find this gun and 2) easily obtain this gun. This will also help because if a shooter was to enter the premise, We would not have to rely on the armed teachers to chase after the shooter. Rather, Those adults who are brave and willing can get the gun and stop the shooter.

Schools always call the police, Or 911, When there is a shooting on school grounds. The police should not be the first resort to stop a shooting. Calling them, Waiting for them to arrive, And then wait for them to actually enter the school will waste time and allow the shooter to get more bodies on the floor. Having a gun on school grounds will help stop a shooting effectively and efficiently. The police still should be called in the case if there is a shoot-out or if the shooter is attempting to leave. The police should not be the ones saving us, Rather it should be the ones who are preparing us for the future.
Debate Round No. 2
FanboyMctroll

Pro

Like I said before in round 2, Parents are the responsible guardians of their children until they become adults. Also adults were shaped by their parents growing up. All the ideologies of people come from their parents. People are descendants of their parents and most have some type of ideology stemming from their parents views. Therefore parents are ALWAYS to blame for those peoples outcomes. Like a serial killer, He became that way because of the way he was raised in the dysfunctional home.

I agree with you that once the shooter decides to pull off the shooting and sends his manifesto off, He is not thinking about his family at that point, But we need to look at the origin of his hate and cause for the shooting, And it's always the parents that it starts with. Parents are also the first point of contact for that shooter, They are the first to see the anger manifest in their son. The Isla Vista massacre, The parents knew their son had issued, Yet waited until the day of the shooting to go to the police, That's too late, And therefore they should be executed.

Parents are directly responsible for their kids and the upbringing of their adult children.

As for the mentally ill, Well the parent brought the retard into this world, You are still responsible for it. Don't blame mental illness for tragedies, It's still that person and they are the product of some parent.

Either way the best method for lowering gun violence is by execution and elimination of possible retribution by other family members of more gun violence, By execution of the entire family. This has already happened in Russia, China, Japan and other countries in the world. This method is highly effective and if you look at crime statistics for those countries, They are way lower than what we see in the USA.

Therefore I believe this is the absolute best method of stopping gun violence. Make the parents accountable, Maybe then they will pay more attention to their dysfunctional, Degenerate kids and see the signs sooner before the manifesto is posted and innocent lives are taken

mic drop

Con

One thing that I would like to point out is that not all kids follow in the footsteps of their parents, Even when it comes to politics. My mother and father are Democrat and Independend (Left-Leaning), Respectively. I, However, Am a Libertarian. I had exposed myself to more right-wing sources, Particularly The Daily Wire, Louder with Crowder, And Breitbart. I had exposed myself to a whole new world because I was only taugh one side of each issue. With the growth of social media and internet, We expose ourselves to many new, Opposing views on several issues. And with kids getting exposed cell phones and iPads at relatively early ages, Around their early elementary school years, They too open themselves up to the world of politics very early on if they have social media. I do agree that most kids do end up following their parents ideologies, Yet some stray away from that, And I applaud that. Social media only will grow that divide, And many more kids will actually think for themselves, Rather than inherit their family"s political traits.

When talking about the shooters family, Many of them do not even know that they are planning the shooting. A article published by Katherine Newman was done about how she had studied the families of mass shooters. One part says that "These young shooters were masters of concealment, Capable of planning their mayhem for months in advance without evoking suspicions. " It then says soon after, "They didn"t want anyone, Least of all their closest loved ones, To know how quickly they were descending into psychological chaos" (https://www. Independent. Co. Uk/voices/las-vegas-stephen-paddock-marilou-danley-mass-shootings-killers-murderers-families-victims-too-a7986181. Html). Many of them conceal their thoughts and feelings and never actually tell anyone about their decent into a mental catastrophe. Even when they plan their shooting, Almost all of it is undercover. Even if the parents did not abuse their child, And the relationship between the parent and child is good, They almost never tell them about what they are feeling. A lot of them would much rather keep it to themselves and deal with it internally.

After there is a shooting, A lot of people try to find anything mildly suspicious of the shooter. Much goes for Steven Paddock, The Las Vegas shooter. In the same article, It stated that "They may display odd behaviour in the workplace, Which was the gambling casino for Steven Paddock (or the post office for others). Workers would often say they were gruff, Hostile, And prone to verbal outbursts. But millions of people fit this description and only a tiny handful express their hostilities with guns in their hands. " Even when there are minor signs of these shooters actions, A lot of them fit the description of many hostile people who the casino deals with almost every day.

And continuing to hear you believe that killing family members will stop mass shootings just makes it sound worse and worse. Many of the parents are innocent, And had no part in this whatsoever. They didn"t know that something like this would have happened because their child never opened up to them and told them what they were thinking and feeling. In the other part, Where the parent knew about the child, That does not mean that the parents should drag 8 other innocent family members into this. THey also had no part. Many of them probably have good lives, With good jobs, Good relationships, And everything is working out for them. Then you tell them they are getting executed because their cousin shot up a school. Their mental illness should not be dragged onto the lives in innocent family members.

One virus in the family should not be taken out onto 8, 9, Or even 10 productive members of society.

Violence cannot block out violence.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Leaning
@FanboyMctroll
F*** that's vicious. Ever hear a common thought why legalism was ineffective? When you make the punishment harsh to a certain extent, People figure there's nothing worse you can do to them, So they have nothing to lose by going all out to the end. And you want to do it to ten people at a time? Bah, Gun violence pop way up when revolution of rage and anger against whatever lawmakers passed such a law come about.

@PointProven
Kinda a d*** thing to say mate. Admittedly Pro argument was too, But still. Just agreeing with his argument if you say that aren't you? Punish his family because of what he said?
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
That's real nice

What's the matter Pointproven or should I use your real name Jesus Machado, The migrant workers son from Juarez, Family had to escape the Los Zetas cartel to come and landscape peoples lawns LOL
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
PointProven
@Fanboy I hope your entire family is murdered with illegal guns that you hate so much and your mother is raped with the barrel of a shotgun.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
I thought those beaners only made money off of drugs
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Masterful
If bullets are increased to 5k each, Then you'll create a black market for bullets meaning the Mexicans cartels will make a lot of money.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
AlexDreki
I suspect if the debate arguing in favor put such plan into action he would if lucky end up in The Hauge and be executed for Crimes against humanity. What "Pro" Proposes is not only against the US Constitution but the Geneva Convention.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
consciousology
I thought people wasn't giving up their guns because the criminals and terrorists won't give up theirs. I mean if guns were against the law only criminals would still have them, Right?
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
That is an excellent idea! , That would eliminate 1/3 of the gun population from the trailer parks
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
missmedic
Set the price on bullets at 5000$ each, Then only rich people can kill people.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
FanboyMctrollAnonymousTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: While Con makes good arguments for how inhumane and terrible Pros argument is, that doesn't really relate to 'Best if Best means function, which is how I choose to perceive that use of the word. However Con does make many other arguments noting how difficult it can be to perceive what a person is really thinking, that this could incentivize shooters crazy enough to want to harm their own family.

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