The Instigator
Pro (for)
4 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Bible is a work of fiction

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,105 times Debate No: 55197
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)




Many creationists seem to refer to the bible as a historical narration including Ken Ham who during his debate with Bill Nye kept saying "There is a book that tells you". So as an exploration of religion, would anybody be willing to debate me on this.

Wikipedia states "Fiction is the form of any work that deals, in part or in whole, with information or events that are not real, but rather, imaginary and theoretical" and that is what the bible sounds like to me.

As this is an exploration of religion and a strive for understanding, 1st round may be used by the Con to make a statement and in fact may even have an extra round to get his/her point across.


I would be glad to debate you.
Debate Round No. 1


Let me start off saying that I personally am not a religious person. However, that does not mean I had written off religion completely. About 5-6 years ago, I went out looking for "the truth" so I started researching and reading multiple doctrines etc including the bible. Out of all those, the bible was one of the easiest to dismiss for me because it was just so unbelievable. Yet I find it astonishing that so many people believe that the stories in the bible actually happened.

Just from the beginning, how the heaven and the earth were created by god in 6 days. Even if that was believable, how did god create day and night and light before he created the sun? What was there before he created these things? How long was he standing or floating there before he decided to create these things? Who created god? Why do creationists insist that the idea of an eternal universe seem so unbelievable because it defies laws of thermodynamics but find it absolutely believable that there is a man-like being out there who oversees and overhears everything for eternity? But most importantly, if this is a historical narrative, who was witnessing this and writing it down?

Next there is Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. There was a perfect garden which had one tree which they weren"t supposed to eat from" Why was it there in the first place? What kind of fruit grew on it that makes people get shy? And what the hell is up with the talking snake?

I can go on and on with these stories" but they just sound like The Hobbit or Narnia or whatever so why should I or anyone for that matter believe that the bible is based on historical events?


Let me start by pointing out that the bible does contain elements that are indeed faith based. That means that some things that you asked such as how long was he sitting there before he started making things is impossible to answer. Just like it is impossible to prove that the earth is made out of a molten core or that the law of gravity will never change. Second remember some of the things in the bible are metaphorical while others are not. Next let me point out that since God is super-natural some things he does can't be explained by science due to the fact that science is defined as "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." Since God is not physical nor is he natural he can't be explained by science. What I can give you is the leading theories.

First when the bible talks about the earth being made in seven days it could be speaking metaphorically. This is especially likely with the first four days due to the fact that, according to Genesis 1, God didn't create the sun till day four. Also in the same chapter it hints that the earth as we know it didn't even exist when it said that "the earth was without form. Now God could have straight up said the earth never existed till he made it. But it's original readers would have been confused. As for day and night, as far as I know there is not a theory for that. As I said before lots of the stuff in the bible is faith based. As for what was there before, it would be the same thing that is at the ends of our universe. Absolutely nothing.

The Bible does not say what created God. In fact it says that God is forever. It also hints that God is not of this universe meaning that time as we know it doesn't effect him. I personally am not a stereotypical creationist so I have no idea why they believe what they believe. But my objection to an eternal universe is the fact that the universe is expanding. So all you have to do is subtract how the edge is expanding each year from the the radius and you get the year the universe was created if the universe moved at a uniform rate.

Now to the Garden of Eden, in short the reason God put that tree into the garden was because he needed the ability to give humans a choice due to his narcissistic nature. The first hint of evil in the bible is when God created angels. He created a certain angel named Lucifer. Now Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels and was very influential. Then the power went to his head and he tried to lead a rebellion to overthrow God. When he failed he got sent to earth. God needed the tree so that humans would have a choice between Gods way or there way. As for the fruit that's faith based though tradition says they were supernatural apples. The serpent (not snake) was Lucifer in a certain form.

The reason that people can believe that the bible is historical facts is the simple fact that the bible has never been proven wrong. Now lots of people like to point out the facts that defy logic but as I have said before God is supernatural and some things in the bible are metaphors. Now my question for you is why wouldn't you believe in the bible. According to Bayes' Theory there is a 67% chance that God exists. While there is a 2.41e^-179% chance that ribozymes would evolve the way that they did. This means if in fact you were to die you would most likely have to face some sort of Heaven and Hell.
Debate Round No. 2


Thank you 13millerd,

I believe that the earth"s molten core was proven a while back by studying the movements of seismic activity but that"s beside the point though. I would like to point out that "The reason that people can believe that the bible is historical facts is the simple fact that the bible has never been proven wrong" is not a sufficient enough argument. Using science to explain the parts [which are very few] that can be explained while dismissing the rest as magic, supernatural, and metaphorical really does not help. It is as if I was arguing that Harry Potter is non-fiction and that the wizard world indeed does exist. How can you prove me or JK Rowling wrong if we both claimed that it is true and that whatever you can"t believe is because the wizards are magic and you won"t understand it? Rowling has obviously stated that she is writing the book etc. so we accept that work as fiction. However, if we were in lesser times when people did not have access to information, most knowledge came from whatever the monarch says is true, I believe there might be a lot of people who would use that gullibility of humans to exert power over them.

There was a claim that religion was created and enforced by the leaders of states to rule over people because using fear of a higher being was a lot cheaper and simpler than training and raising the upkeep of a policing force which would make sense in a primitive world. We now have the means of overseeing the general public through surveillance cameras and an adequate police force basically making religion obsolete.

This brings up more questions like "who actually wrote the bible?". My research tells me it was Moses and a few people who contributed here and there. But let"s say Moses DID in fact write the bible and that these are the words of god. God must have communicated with Moses in one way. I would picture Moses writing down what the voice in his head was saying much like Ms.Rowling when she writes her novels I would assume. If god threw down a book onto Moses, why did Moses have to rewrite it himself?

As for your Bayes theorem, if I"m not mistaken, that would be the only theorem that might give god a higher chance than evolution [I would like to see the calculation on this by the way]. However, this is due to the fact that Bayes theorem itself relies on beliefs. Evolutionists leave any option open as possibility where as creationism has one option and it believes that THAT option is indeed the end of story. Therefore you can see why I would not take this theorem seriously in this case.


13millerd forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


My opponent forfeited the previous round

However, I do realize that Moses was the one who communicated with god through a burning bush... which I believe even people today sometimes do... when the bush looks like this:


13millerd forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Sagey 7 years ago
Hmmm, I think I've seen a similar debate somewhere b4!
Funny that.
Hope it is more interesting than all the others!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Sagey 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's arguments were stronger than Con's single attempt at half cocked rebuttal, but Con dipped out and also gave Pro a conduct point.

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