The Instigator
17designer
Pro (for)
The Contender
Con (against)
Anonymous

Black Lives Matter

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/2/2021 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 921 times Debate No: 127107
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

17designer

Pro

This is my first debate, And I'm excited to see the Con's argument. I'll give the rundown of how this debate will work, PLEASE FOLLOW ALONG. (Trust me, It will go a lot smoother if you just follow the instructions. )

RD1 will be the Pro and Con's opening greeting. I will provide a 1-sentence-statement on my opinions of Black Lives Matter and the Con will do the same, Except opposing my thoughts.

RD2 will be the Pro's beginning of the actual argument, With the Pro provided reasons as to why the Pro believes in what they believe in. The Con will then examine the arguments and will attempt to disprove what Pro says.

RD3 will begin with the Pro attempting to disprove Con's previous dissection, And the Con will do the same when it's their turn.

RD4 will be the exact same as RD3, Except there will be a conclusion statement from each side.

I wish to have a respectful opponent and one that will be able to seriously challenge me.

May the best side win.

Con

Looking forward to it
Debate Round No. 1
17designer

Pro

Alright, I wasn't able to post an argument for a while because it wouldn't submit for some reason.

I will stick to my word, And provide reasons for my approval of BLM.

Ever since white people primarily dominated America in terms of population, Racial incidents have occurred numerous times. America has seen slavery of all black people, And extreme discrimination of any skin color that wasn't white.

https://en. Wikipedia. Org. . .
https://en. Wikipedia. Org. . .
https://en. Wikipedia. Org. . .

All of the sources above are results in what happens when a white cop comes to the arrest of a black person. Wanna know a huge portion of why these things happened, Excluding racism?

1. Lack of resistance
2. Lack of resistance and knowledge of the situation
3. Lack of resistance

When you give someone power, Especially when they have complete approval to have it, They will most likely feel superior to others. 2 the cops who caused the incidents above are scot-free from the situation.

This round for me was short and simple, And not as strong as I plan for my other rounds to be. However, I'm more interested in looking at the Con's examination of my argument.

Con

Okay sorry I never got a notification in my email so I didn't know you posted an argument.
Quick pro tip, This website doesn't like links, Curse words, And long numbers. So if your argument isn't posting its because there's some of those in them. The Wikipedia stories you cited in your argument don't lead anywhere so I have legitimately no idea what your talking about in your argument.

MY ARGUMENT

So when we talk about BLM Im assuming we aren't talking about the claim BLM which everyone believes, Im assuming were talking about what the BLM movement represents, Like that America is a Systemically racist place and black people are being put down and killed by police. They are the majority of people killed, Don't make as much as white people exc. . .

BLM started when a young black teen Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer outside of a convenient store. Witnesses say that he had his hands up and the officer shot and killed him in cold blood. The Department of Justice (Ran by Eric Holder who by the way is black and works for Obama) says this isn't true based on the body cam footage
The truth is that Michael Brown robbed the store, Punched the owner, Charged the officer and tried to take his gun. Then was shot by the officer he was assaulting. There's is DNA and physical evidence to back this claim up.

This is where the BLM hands up don't shoot came from it was based on a lie.

But, Just because this particular incident was a justified shooting, What about all the others?
Why are black people killed by the police so often?

Well they aren't. The majority of people shot by police are white.
statista. Com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
(add the https://www. To the beginning for the link)

Now of course America has been a racist place in the past. Slavery exists, So did Jim Crow. But the claim BLM is making is that today America is racist against black people. This is nonsense. There are no racist laws anymore, And if there are you can sue them for it. If you think there is a racist law, Then show it to me.

Black people earn less money because they tend to be less educated and work in low skill low wage jobs. That isnt the fault of America, Its the fault of black gangster rap, Ghetto culture. For example, Northern whites are better off than southern whites, But thats not a racial thing, Its a cultural thing.
Debate Round No. 2
17designer

Pro

I'm quite new to the website, So I apologize for the links not going anywhere.

I'll go over each line and attempt to pick apart each one.

"So when we talk about BLM Im assuming we aren't talking about the claim BLM which everyone believes, Im assuming were talking about what the BLM movement represents, Like that America is a Systemically racist place and black people are being put down and killed by police. "

You are correct, Indeed.

"BLM started when a young black teen Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer outside of a convenient store. Witnesses say that he had his hands up and the officer shot and killed him in cold blood. The Department of Justice (Ran by Eric Holder who by the way is black and works for Obama) says this isn't true based on the body cam footage
The truth is that Michael Brown robbed the store, Punched the owner, Charged the officer and tried to take his gun. Then was shot by the officer he was assaulting. There's is DNA and physical evidence to back this claim up. "

Now, There's one thing you got wrong. BLM started before this, In 2013. BLM was just the movement that jumped onto this case so that they could figure out why this happened. When you say "body cam footage" and "physical evidence, " I wanna see it. Please provide sources of the evidence and bodycam footage.

"This is where the BLM hands up don't shoot came from it was based on a lie. "

As I stated before, This is incorrect.

"But, Just because this particular incident was a justified shooting, What about all the others?
Why are black people killed by the police so often?

Well they aren't. The majority of people shot by police are white.
statista. Com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
(add the https://www. To the beginning for the link)"

Well, Good sir, Or good ma'am, The BLM movement doesn't primarily, If at all, Focus on the number of people from all races killed by authorities. BLM stands for the elimination of systematic oppression towards black people, They don't just focus on the number of people from all races killed.

Now, On the website that you linked, I would like to know why black people are the second most killed, Despite taking up only 13% of the United States population. Oh yeah, And of course more white people would be killed, Their population is almost six times the size of the population of black people. But once again, White people have a population six times the size of the black people population, So why is the number of white people killed only double the number of black people killed? I'm not talking about just in 2021, But all years since 2017 on the chart. You can find this on Google.

"Now of course America has been a racist place in the past. Slavery exists, So did Jim Crow. But the claim BLM is making is that today America is racist against black people. This is nonsense. There are no racist laws anymore, And if there are you can sue them for it. If you think there is a racist law, Then show it to me. "

Well, Of course there wouldn't be racist laws; there are people in the government against racism. And if there were racist laws with BLM around, Then someone's in some deep trouble, Don't you think? Police don't establish laws that say "Kill black people", They just go and do it with no questions. Tamir Rice, A 12 year old boy with a toy gun, Shot to death by police. Eric Garner, A black man who was literally put into a chokehold and killed by the police even though he didn't do anything to hurt them. These are examples of the things police have done to black people.

"Black people earn less money because they tend to be less educated and work in low skill low wage jobs. That isnt the fault of America, Its the fault of black gangster rap, Ghetto culture. For example, Northern whites are better off than southern whites, But thats not a racial thing, Its a cultural thing. "

Respectfully, You haven't provided a reason as to why "Ghetto culture" affects black people. I'm assuming it's because you believe that black people tend to live their life like they are in a "Ghetto culture" music video, But that strikes me as a "Murderers are made by video games" type thing. I disagree with this statement and I kindly ask that you provide links of proof along with this.

I thank the Con for joining this debate with me, And I look forward to their future arguments.

Con

My bad, I thought that BLM started in response to Michael Brown and Trevon Martian, They seemed to me to be the two defining cases for the movement.

" Well, Good sir, Or good ma'am, The BLM movement doesn't primarily, If at all, Focus on the number of people from all races killed by authorities. BLM stands for the elimination of systematic oppression towards black people, They don't just focus on the number of people from all races killed. "

I mean they wouldn't be complaining if whites were killed thirteen times more often than blacks right? So in part they care about the number of other races killed in proportionality to blacks. You appear to use population as a benchmark for calculating racially motivating killings. But the races don't commit crime in equal rates, What you have to look at is the population of people commiting crimes not the population of racial categories.

So this link is for the fbi government crime stats. It was hard to understand what the stats were saying because of how it was layed out so I downloaded the excel file and put it in a chart. It made more since looking at the graph. I can send you the image via email if you want to dm me. But look at the totals on the left hand side,
The total amount of violent crime by whites is 3315
The total amount of violent crime by blacks is 2925
Almost even despite the fact that blacks are only 13 percent of the population. So based just on this what we should expect is that white and black men should be killed by police at almost the same exact rate. Yet, Despite the crimes committed by whites and blacks, (Blacks being disproportionately higher due to ghetto culture) being similar, Whites are killed twice as much. I know BLM doesnt primarily focus on other races being killed, But its hard to argue that black people are being UNFAIRLY and unjustly when. . .
Whites are killed 1 out of 8 times for violent crimes commited by whites and. . .
Blacks are killed 1 out of 13 for violent crimes commited by blacks.
Whites are killed more frequent for the same number of police interactions.
It would appear that officers are MORE readily willing to use lethal force on whites than on blacks. I can give a different example using men and women in sports if it makes more since.

This is my biggest objection to BLM is that people use population and assume all races will commit crime in exactly the same rates and expect the fatalities to be perfectly proportional when crime is commited in disproportional rates among the races.

Now in the case of Tmair Rice and Eric Garner,
Tmair Rice, Took the orange cap off of the replica toy gun, Which is used to let people and officers know its a toy, And was pointing it at people. I think it was an airsoft gun.
Eric Garner was agreeably tragic and the cops were unnecessarily rough. Having said that, He was resisting arrest and died from a heart attack from being overweight and fighting so hard, Not because the cops put him in a choke hold. But I feel extremely bad how that turned out.
Also I fully admit that there are racist cops who need to be punished and there are legitimate grievances black people have of being mistreated by the police and racist citizens. That isnt enough for me to believe that America is so systemically racist that black people are being singled out in a special way.

"Respectfully, You haven't provided a reason as to why "Ghetto culture" affects black people. I'm assuming it's because you believe that black people tend to live their life like they are in a "Ghetto culture" music video, But that strikes me as a "Murderers are made by video games" type thing. I disagree with this statement and I kindly ask that you provide links of proof along with this. "

So this could be a debate itself but Ill try to explain what I mean.
Black people are not inferior
Black people are not naturally violent
Black people are not less equipped in any way biologically speaking
Black people have inherited a ghetto culture from southern white crackers who were also ghetto.

The ghetto affects everyone. Blacks got it from southern whites in the antibellum south.
Southern white crackers got it from ghetto Brits in the 17th and 18th centuries
The Brits grew out of it before the White crackers did
The white crackers grew out of it before blacks did
And blacks were growing out of it until there was a media push that tried to say that the ghetto black was the legitimate black. It happened with the new deal, Red lining and integration
That ghetto culture is one that does not value education or responsibility. Its a system of reliance and unearned honor and pride.
The northern blacks who saw southern blacks immigrating to the north after the civil war were some of the most resentful and spiteful to them. Because the Northern blacks never had an identity forced on them the way southern blacks did, The ghetto culture of the arriving southern blacks angered the well mannered northern blacks and tarnished their reputation, And soon anti black sentiment grew in the north.
There is an extremely great book written by Thomas Sowell, A black guy, And more importantly a genius, Called Black Rednecks And White Liberals. Its about the history of slavery and black culture. There's an audiobook on YouTube. Its great.

But take the German example. After WW2, Alot of white and black Americans stayed in Germany. Their children do not exhibit ANY of the differences white and black people have in America. And Germany had a lot of racist sentiments just as America did, But they didnt have the ghetto culture that affects so many blacks in America.
Debate Round No. 3
17designer

Pro

"I mean they wouldn't be complaining if whites were killed thirteen times more often than blacks right? So in part they care about the number of other races killed in proportionality to blacks. You appear to use population as a benchmark for calculating racially motivating killings. But the races don't commit crime in equal rates, What you have to look at is the population of people commiting crimes not the population of racial categories. "

I do apologize if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here. You're going off of documented reports, I see. Now, Those are only documents of crimes that were seen. White people have had bias from police toweard them, So that paying the officers would get them off, Or the officers just see that they're white and not do anything about it would do it.

"Almost even despite the fact that blacks are only 13 percent of the population. So based just on this what we should expect is that white and black men should be killed by police at almost the same exact rate. Yet, Despite the crimes committed by whites and blacks, (Blacks being disproportionately higher due to ghetto culture) being similar, Whites are killed twice as much. I know BLM doesnt primarily focus on other races being killed, But its hard to argue that black people are being UNFAIRLY and unjustly when. . .
Whites are killed 1 out of 8 times for violent crimes commited by whites and. . .
Blacks are killed 1 out of 13 for violent crimes commited by blacks.
Whites are killed more frequent for the same number of police interactions.
It would appear that officers are MORE readily willing to use lethal force on whites than on blacks. I can give a different example using men and women in sports if it makes more since. "

Echoing my last statement. Plus, This is coming from FBI crime stats (authorities). That's pretty much hearing information about a crime and then asking for only one side of the story which by the way, Happens to be the side that's known for having issues with racism accusations in the past.

"This is my biggest objection to BLM is that people use population and assume all races will commit crime in exactly the same rates and expect the fatalities to be perfectly proportional when crime is commited in disproportional rates among the races. "

Could you provide an example of incidents such as this one, Where I assume you're referring to what I said in my last post.

"Tmair Rice, Took the orange cap off of the replica toy gun, Which is used to let people and officers know its a toy, And was pointing it at people. I think it was an airsoft gun. "

"Having said that, He was resisting arrest and died from a heart attack from being overweight and fighting so hard, Not because the cops put him in a choke hold. But I feel extremely bad how that turned out. "

Tamir Rice, If you look at the footage, The cop did not hold the gun at Tamir. As a matter of fact, Tamir didn't even have his gun out at the officer. The officer simply got out of their car and killed him with no hesitation at all. Also, If someone actually had an actual gun and still wasn't shooting at people, that's still wrong of a police officer. Police are not to just kill people without proper reasoning and management. Look at Kaitlin Bennett, She wasn't arrested for carrying an assault rifle on a college campus. But when Tamir Rice, An African-American does it, He is killed.

https://www. Theguardian. Com/us-news/video/2014/nov/26/cleveland-video-tamir-rice-shooting-police

Here's the link to Tamir Rice's shooting.

Eric Garner, We both agree it was unnecessarily rough. Now, If one is resisting arrest, Why be so physical and rough with them instead of tasing them? Putting an obviously overweight person in a position like that instead of simply using your very-valuable and possibly life-saving tool known as the taser seems a little dramatic. His death was caused by "[compression] of neck, Compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police". In short terms, He died of asthma and not a heart attack.

"So this could be a debate itself but Ill try to explain what I mean.
Black people are not inferior
Black people are not naturally violent
Black people are not less equipped in any way biologically speaking
Black people have inherited a ghetto culture from southern white crackers who were also ghetto.

The ghetto affects everyone. Blacks got it from southern whites in the antibellum south.
Southern white crackers got it from ghetto Brits in the 17th and 18th centuries
The Brits grew out of it before the White crackers did
The white crackers grew out of it before blacks did
And blacks were growing out of it until there was a media push that tried to say that the ghetto black was the legitimate black. It happened with the new deal, Red lining and integration
That ghetto culture is one that does not value education or responsibility. Its a system of reliance and unearned honor and pride.
The northern blacks who saw southern blacks immigrating to the north after the civil war were some of the most resentful and spiteful to them. Because the Northern blacks never had an identity forced on them the way southern blacks did, The ghetto culture of the arriving southern blacks angered the well mannered northern blacks and tarnished their reputation, And soon anti black sentiment grew in the north.
There is an extremely great book written by Thomas Sowell, A black guy, And more importantly a genius, Called Black Rednecks And White Liberals. Its about the history of slavery and black culture. There's an audiobook on YouTube. Its great. "

What are we defining at "the ghetto" here? I looked at it like you were referring to the sterotypical ghetto. With a word like that, Multiple definitions can be used. I ask that you give a specific definition for it. Now, When you say "unearned honor and pride", Are you referring to the people who made it out, Or are you referring to people who take pride in coming from the bottom? Because either way, It's not wrong for people to be proud of themselves for being successful even after they've gotten through the bottom. Matter of fact, Ghetto or not, Black people still have it difficult for themselves because of systematic racism.


"But take the German example. After WW2, Alot of white and black Americans stayed in Germany. Their children do not exhibit ANY of the differences white and black people have in America. And Germany had a lot of racist sentiments just as America did, But they didnt have the ghetto culture that affects so many blacks in America. "

After WW2, People still possessed antisemitic and racist beliefs (mostly antisemitic). It's not just Americans the assumed part of Germany, It was France and Great Britain, Maybe other countries. And what would happen if Germany just decided to kill thousands, Maybe millions of more people from other countries? WW3.



Whether the Pro or the Con stands victorious in this debate, It's honestly been a pleasure. I'm glad I could share my thoughts and opinions with another individual who respectfully shared their's. Once again, It's been fun.

-17designer
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
17designer
good talking to you as well
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
DeletedUser
I forgot but feel free to take it as a win. Good talking to you
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
17designer
since my opponent forfeited, I'll count this debate as a win.
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
17designer
adolfmosley,

i see, You are a troll
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
AdolfMosley
Black lives do not matter even a little bit
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
DeletedUser
I havent insulted in the debate, Only the comments. And not to the person im debating
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
Hezikiah
See, 17 Designer, Most people here only insult. It gives meaning to their worthless life
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
DeletedUser
fbi. Gov/crime-in-the-u. S/2018/crime-in-the-u. S. -2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6
Sorry I forgot to post the link, This is it. All I did was type in Murder by Race stats and this was the first option on google.
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
DeletedUser
Round limp don't be dumb. If you really have that kind of mind set, That your opinion must be right therefore theres no use talking then you were certainly a NAZI in your past life.
Posted by Anonymous 5 months ago
17designer
round_limp

so that i could use a source that's not seen as biased
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