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The Instigator
omar2345
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Debaticus
Con (against)
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Blue pill or Red pill

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,180 times Debate No: 120951
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

omar2345

Pro

I made it 2k characters so that there isn't too much said.
I take the side of the blue pill.
If you want to start in Round 1 go ahead but if you want me to start then I will give my argument in Round 2.


Blue Pill: A life of luxurious security, Tranquil happiness, And the blissful ignorance of illusion

Red Pill: A life of harsh knowledge, Desperate freedom, And the brutal truths of reality
Debaticus

Con

That was fast. . .
Alright, Here we go.
I would take the red pill with the knowledge that after Neo took it, His "reality" was discovered to be an illusion, Yet he could still manage to re-enter that illusion and even learn to control it. That is more of an illusion than anything.

The only true cost for the freedom of basically being god would be your paradigm shifting without a clutch and knowing you may never be very comfortable again.

I also like knowing the full truth, And even though I personally keep secrets and lie, I want to know everything directly. Even if the freedom is desperate, It is still freedom! There are too many examples of freedom in danger compared to captive in safety. A few examples: Everything, Everything. The maze runner. The hunger games. Divergent. Ender's game. Fahrenheit 451. Even the 70 year old book: 1984. In all of those, The characters choose dangerous freedom and rebellion in order to make the world bend to their will instead of vice versa.
Maybe it is only me, Because I don't want to simply give in and follow the normal without questioning it first.
Basically though, Blue=happy sheep Red= fighting spirits
-Debaticus
Debate Round No. 1
omar2345

Pro

Hey thanks for taking this debate and for making it about Matrix. Didn't know if the person would know what the Matrix is so I left it open.

When Neo took the Red Pill he did not realise what was at stake with the consumption of the pill. Morpheus I think purposefully lied to him in order for him to accept the pill because the world he was offering was much worse than the one he was in. The real world was filled with awful food, Awful living conditions and in constant alert over something more powerful. The only glimpse of hope was that Morpheus can find the one to set people free. Morpheus was wrong and the Oracle knew. That didn't stop Neo from beating the Agents in Matrix 1 (lets not talk about the other two) but when we look at that fight it was awful. Neo beat 3 people in a world filled with Agents and in the real world they were just torn apart by sentinels. The truth comes at a cost and the movie does show that. That cost is not worth learning the truth.

Cypher was the person who ratted out the crew. He does not believe in Morpheus but was guided by him that the truth would be more meaningful than the world in the matrix. Turns out Cypher was mislead and wanted to go back in. So much so that he was willing to sacrifice his life in order to get it. I think if we would ask him what if the Agents would simply kill him after giving them Morpheus he would still go through with it because deep down he knew what the truth was really like. Awful and a step down from the Matrix. Even though he acknowledges the meat to be a figment of his imagination he would much rather live in his mind then the awful world that was left after A. I took control. That really goes to show truth has its limits and if it does not suit the betterment of mankind then there is no point in searching for it. Which is why scientists are assigned a morality to their experiments in order to make sure awful experiments are not committed and the ends don't justify the means.
Debaticus

Con

My opponent's argument can basically be summed up in a few points.
1. ) Morpheus lied.
2. ) Cypher couldnt handle the pressure the red pill gave him.
3. ) There is no point in finding the truth if it has no reward or betterment.

For one, Morpheus did lie, But not in the most important way. He gave neo the option very clearly. Neo knew when he took the red pill that he would learn the whole truth and that he might not like it. But, Even though the real world had become disappointing, It granted power in the fantasy. It granted the ability to see past the lie and gain control. After all, Didn't Neo win in the end of the trilogy?
Would you rather have a common life with a bit of Deja vu? Or would you instead want to have superpowers and "Know Kung Fu" at the large cost of reality as you know it changing? I would.

Next, Cypher was a weak soul. He had peen present for way too long and wanted to return to the world where he had peace. Yes, He regretted choosing the red pill. Yes, He successfully killed two friends of Neo's. But is that the fault of the red pill? For lack of a better analogy, Cypher was a sheep. He wanted to conform to the standards of living. But, He was also a curious person. He wanted to dip his toes into the pool of knowledge, But he didn't like what he saw. Unfortunately, It was a pool of liquid mirror, And it dragged him into the deep end. He broke because he was not fully committed to the cause.

Finally, The reward for finding the truth is knowing the truth! My opponent presented reasons why the red pill is bad, But he did not present reasons the blue pill was good. Mainly because there were none. Even though they presented the option to erase Neo's memory if he took the blue pill, That memory eraser is not reliable, As he remembered the tracker that agent smith put inside him. The amount of regret that would come from taking the blue pill would be astronomical.
Debate Round No. 2
omar2345

Pro

My opponent's argument can basically be summed up in a few points.
1) Agreed with me that Morpheus did lie.
2) Blames Cypher's weak soul instead of disregarding the awful deal that is the red pill.
3) Disregards the apparent benefits of the blue pill which I will state in this Round.

1P:
This disregards what Neo was and is. One person capable of using such a power. Con makes it seem like everyone can be like him when there could only be one neo which is clearly represented in the movie. Everyone else fights for their life with tools while relying on one person to save them. This is a movie and the director had Neo win but what if he didn't? That was not assured so basically the red pill is only the truth without any insurance that it would give comfort or make you happy. I consider being happy the ultimate goal for humans and the red pill doesn't guarantee that but the blue pill does. Con might say what if you know the world is a matrix? Simply go to an Agent and ask him to reset your memories or alter yourself in order to stop even risk of knowing the truth.

2P:
You don't know that since the movie does not tackle his backstory. I would say it is more true that in his mind the world that the truth brought would be better than the Matrix and I am sure Morpheus did not tell him about that world either instead allowed him to think about the wonders of the truth without knocking him down a peg to understand how awful it was.

3P:
The cause relied on one individual. If Morpheus never found the one there would be no one saving Zion and eventually humanity outside the Matrix would be all dead.
Blue pill is comfort, Security and bliss. Red pill does not offer that and I consider happiness more important than the truth. The blue pill is reliable because look at how many people are happy in the Matrix. If Neo keeps learning about the truth simply change that part of him that makes him know. The A. I are capable of doing that.

To conclude I won. Happiness is better than the truth.

Debaticus

Con

"Simply go to an Agent and ask him to reset your memories or alter yourself in order to stop even risk of knowing the truth. "
Well, For one, In order to ask an agent to block you from the truth, You would need to know the truth in the first place. You would need to know the truth because the agents appear to just be humans to the captive people.

"I consider being happy the ultimate goal for humans"
No offense intended, But from a different perspective, That argument sounds very dystopian and creepy. You would sacrifice knowledge for bliss? Also, If happiness was the ultimate goal for humans, Why did Galileo search in the stars? Why do we have rovers on other planets? Why did the Americans fight for freedom? Happiness Is good of course, But the truth is always more important. The truth may be brutal, It may be sad. But when you know it, And know you could still be in a position where you didn't know it, You will look back at that position, Then forward to the present. Looking to the present, You will feel grateful that you learned the truth in the past.

Sometimes, Those who take the blue pill aren't 100% safe from the truth anyway. I'd rather jump into a pool than be thrown in at the same time as everyone else.

I have every reason to blame cypher's weak soul. There were 6-8 (I can't remember) people inside of the ship that weren't captive to the matrix. Out of them all, Only one truly regretted taking the red pill. Some of them may have regretted letting cypher kill them, If they had time, But nobody else went back so far on taking the red pill. That means, The only way the red pill would be at fault for presenting itself in a 50/50 choice would be if it wasn't a choice.
Cypher chose wrong, But Neo and the others chose right by taking the red pill.
To conclude, I won. My opponent wrongly believes that the truth is suboptimal to happiness.
Thank you for the debate
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@melcharaz

"I advise you to learn flat earth theory or the bible. Preferably the bible. "
Lol openly admitted the Bible and the flat earthers are similar making both of them ignorant.
Religion offers a community. You don't need Christianity to have that so now the Bible and flat eathers are not what occur when eating the blue pill.
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
Its not false information to make your own happiness regardless of truth or lie. Even the bible makes the statement "I think myself happy. "

If you are unwilling to acknowledge the idea that lies and truth do not determine happiness then your own life must be determined by truth or lies to have any form of happiness. In which, I advise you to learn flat earth theory or the bible. Preferably the bible.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@melcharaz

What don't you understand what I said in Round 1. Blue pill guarantees you happiness the Red Pill does not.
Please go spread false information some-place else.
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
you can make happiness in truth, Just as you can in a lie. Its all about acceptance.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Wish I made the debate longer.

Could have said a lot more.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@K_Michael_Tolman

"The point is that the red pill doesn't give you any real freedom or truth"
Yeah it just gives you truth.

"Just as the blue pill only has an illusion of bliss and luxury. "
That illusion works really well and makes people happy.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
The point is that the red pill doesn't give you any real freedom or truth, Just as the blue pill only has an illusion of bliss and luxury.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
I haven't seen the sequels, And frankly, Don't care to.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@K_Michael_Tolman

"You want to be that jerk who sold out his friends to the Agents because he likes steak? "
If I was Cypher yes.

"Neo can use his powers "outside the Matrix""
Guess everything is the matrix then. That creator with a bunch of T. V's must be the guy who created the matrix.

"2. Agent Smith said that people rejected the original utopian Matrix and that they built the less perfect one to get them to accept it. "
Which is stupid. I much rather live in an utopia rather then a non utopia.

"Morpheus and all of Zion are being fooled by themselves. "
You get that when Neo met the creator.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
Cypher, I mean.

And by the way, I'm mostly sure that Zion, Etc. , Is just another level of the Matrix.
1. Neo can use his powers "outside the Matrix"
2. Agent Smith said that people rejected the original utopian Matrix and that they built the less perfect one to get them to accept it.
Following that logic, It makes sense for them to make yet another Matrix for the people who reject the main one. Thus, Morpheus and all of Zion are being fooled by themselves.
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