The Instigator
NKJVPrewrather
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
asta
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Can Christians lose their salvation?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 579 times Debate No: 111960
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

NKJVPrewrather

Con

I say no, and will prove it. Pro may go first. Salvation is being secure from spiritual death. Good luck.
asta

Pro

Lets see what the bible has to say on whether or not Christians can lose their salvation.

-"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it"(Matthew 7:13-14)

-"Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them. Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."(Luke 13:23-25)

-"In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."(Matthew 23:28)

-"Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."(James 4:4)

Most people aren't going to heaven. People from Non christian faiths probably go to non christian afterlives.; whether good or bad. Because of this, they won't be going to hell to offset the people going to heaven. Since many people choose to be a friend to the world, they become an enemy of god.

Not only is is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation, it's almost impossible they will get it in the first place. The typical Christian won't go into heaven. Even Maria Teresa Solari,(MTS) although maybe in heaven, won't be getting a big reward in heaven since the bible says that if you do good things and you get human praise for it, you won't get reward in heaven for it. Someone who is highly ranked in heaven you probably don't know because they got a reward from God instead of from men.

It's sad, but true and must be acknoledged for what it is.
Debate Round No. 1
NKJVPrewrather

Con

Jesus never loses what the Father gives Him: John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Philipians 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
This most recent verse says we are saved by the life HE lives, not by the life we live. Denying once saved, always saved teaches salvation by works. Read more, please.
Ephesians 2:3-9 implies that salvation is not by works. Scripture here: https://www.biblegateway.com...
Read this whole chapter to see if any noun can seperate you from God: Romans 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors"not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs"heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God"s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."[c]
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus will never leave you, nor forsake you: Hebrews 13:5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."[a]
Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.[a]
My point is, trust in Jesus, not your own strength. Straight up, if you feel like you have to keep your salvation, you are probably trying to buy Him with works. Jesus is English for Iesous, which is Greek for Yeshua, which is Hebrew for Salvation. Jesus ius salvation, trust in HIS good works, not yours. You can feel safe with Jesus. Jesus is God, and the free gift for you.
asta

Pro

The bible verses that you mentioned:

(Romans 5:10), (Ephesians 2:3-9), (John 6:39), (Ephesians 4:30): These verses are talking to their already devout followers in order to improve them. As a metaphor, if you were a high school coach for a track team, you would tell your varsity guys to do one thing, but that message isn't intended for freshmen on the team. For the freshman, you need to train them as good as the older kids currently are. Similar, those verses were for the "Varsity" followers, not the "Freshman" followers

Salvation is not earned by works alone; this is true. If you do everything that Jesus tells you to do except accepting him as savior, you won't go to heaven. In order to go to follow Jesus on the straight and narrow path, you must "deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me (Jesus)" How can you take up your cross unless it means selling all you have and giving to the poor. I'm not preaching it, I would be a hypocrite if I did. But like I said, heaven is very tough to get.

(Matthew 28:20) ((Philipians 1:6)): These are bible verses that you tried to use for your argument even though it is Jesus Christ telling his followers to observe what he told them (https://www.bible.com...)(https://www.bible.com...).

P.S. If you tried to condense your arguments so they were easier to read, then it would be easier to make responses and it would be easier for other people to vote. And how do you change your debate.org image?
Debate Round No. 2
NKJVPrewrather

Con

No, Romans 5:10 is saying how people get saved.
asta

Pro

Romans 5:10 exactly states, "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.".

This is how Jesus saved us by God/Jesus sacrificing himself to save humanity from God's wrath. He only offers it to those that follow him. You need more than the Christian label to accomplish this. It states that in the bible:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."(Matthew 7:13,14) Since Jesus walked the straight and narrow path, we would have to come after him to do this. This means following the path that most won't. Most people with the Christian label end up in hell.

Otherwise, why would the bible state what Mathew stated?
Debate Round No. 3
NKJVPrewrather

Con

Whatever. You are off topic. The point is, I have proven that Christians can't lose their salvation, and you have failed to prove that we can. Please do.
asta

Pro

Christians can lose their salvation because the bible says that most people who call themselves Christian will sadly go to hell ((Matthew 7:13,14)). The verses that you presented were God/Jesus talking to followers that were much more devout than modern day Christians.

If anything, it seems that you didn't prove your side without me reexplaining how the verses were not talking about salvation for everyone.
Debate Round No. 4
NKJVPrewrather

Con

That doesn't prove that they were ever Christians to begin with. That does prove that they had salvation to lose.
asta

Pro

So your essentially saying that since they were not true Christians to begin with, they couldn't lose something they didn't have yet.

Assuming that is the case, if the question is "Can a "Truly devout fundamentalist Christian" lose their salvation?" Then they can lose it by not being as devout in their lives as life has a tendency to chip at a person's devoutness and this is why Jesus needs to help people stay clean again.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
"In Christianity, a Nazi could pledge to Jesus and be saved." Given that the bible says most Christians will go to hell, yet most Christians accept Jesus at least by word, it takes more than accepting Jesus to get saved.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
P.S. Good luck Con.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
I'm not Jewish so I don't know how Jewish people go to their afterlife(s).
Posted by Just-Call-Me-PK 3 years ago
Just-Call-Me-PK
@Judaism what about king David? My point being that it is possible for anyone to be saved.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
In Christianity, a Nazi could pledge to Jesus and be saved. . . whereas those 6 million Jews, faithful to the G-d of Israel, don't stand a chance.

Don't tell me your religion is more beautiful than Judaism.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
NKJVPrewrather

I am still waiting for your response on my paper proving Judaism. When will you ever try and refute it?

Here it is again:

https://docs.google.com...
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
The verses saying something like "All of you are going to heaven so accept my grace" are verses that were made for people already living the way god wants us too. Jesus wants us to do things such as selling EVERYTHING we have and giving too the poor. This is very hard to accomplish and I'm not preaching it. Otherwise, I would be a hypocrite.

The bible says most people will go to hell(Matthew 7:13-14)(Luke 13:23-25)(Matthew 23:28)(James 4:4)
Posted by Just-Call-Me-PK 3 years ago
Just-Call-Me-PK
Yes you can.

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5"8), but I"m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9"10, 1 Cor. 3:12"15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11"13). Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31"46). Also consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God"s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26"29, 2 Pet. 2:20"21). As for works, i mean i could list for days how both faith and works are both necessary for salvation but James 2:24 on its own confirms this, even accepting the gift of faith is a kind of work.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
No
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.