The Instigator
Christfollower
Con (against)
The Contender
Speedrace
Pro (for)

Can you lose your salvation? (Christianity)

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Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: Select Winner
Started: 3/23/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,898 times Debate No: 120984
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (92)
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Christfollower

Con

Thank you Speedrace for accepting this debate.
I believe once you are truly saved, You can not lose your salvation.

First round is acceptance or state your position.
Speedrace

Pro

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Christfollower

Con

Can you lose your salvation in Jesus Christ?
The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, That God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], And this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, And those whom he called he also justified, And those whom he justified he also glorified. ”
Now, Glorification is the final state of permanent salvation, And this verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified; and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is: if you are called, You cannot lose your salvation. We will be justified, And we will be glorified, Because we have been called — that is, We have been born again. The kind of call Paul is talking about there is the call of Lazarus, By Jesus, From the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead, Now come out. ” (see John 11:43). And the call creates the life. And that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. So that means that there is a promise attached to the call.

“If you are called, You cannot lose your salvation. ”
Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. . . At the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it. ” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8-9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, Guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, By whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son. ” So now you can go back and see why in Romans 8:30, All the called are justified, And all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful.


There is a 14 step way to lose your salvation. You must finish all 14 steps to lose your salvation. As you will see, It is clearly impossible to lose your salvation if you are truly saved and called by God.
  1. Declare God's Grace as Insufficient
  2. Find the Faith of Christ to be Faulty
  3. Get Christ to Take Back His Righteousness
  4. Have The Pardon Removed From Your Sin
  5. Convince The Father To Fail In His Commitment
  6. Break The Father's Seal of The Spirit
  7. Change the Meaning of "Everlasting"
  8. Unbirth Yourself from the Family of God
  9. Nullify Your Adoption by the Father
  10. Separate Yourself from the Love of Christ
  11. Remove Yourself from the Premises of Heaven
  12. Commit Sins Worse than Incest and Blasphemy
  13. Take the Holy Spirit with You to Hell
  14. Take the Son with You to Hell

I leave it there for now. Your floor!

Speedrace

Pro

So firstly, Let's look at Hebrews 10:16, Which says: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, There no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, "

This is the first piece of evidence that shows that we can lose our salvation. It makes sense too: if God doesn't let unsaved sinners into heaven, Why would he let in someone who is saved but continually sins anyway?

Another scripture is Hebrews 6:4-8 which says: "For it is impossible, In the case of those who have once been enlightened, Who have tasted the heavenly gift, And have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, To restore them again to repentance, Since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, And produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, Receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, It is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. "

Again, This shows how sinning can, In some cases, Be just like outright refusing God's gift.

You made some points that seem valid on the surface, But I don't think they're true:

"The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, That God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], And this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come. "

Well, First of all, If we're speaking technically, Everyone has eternal life, Because even those who go to hell still exist. However, Non-technically, This does not indicate that God can't take away our eternal life and ticket into heaven.

Romans 8:30 doesn't include a timeframe. I looked at the MSG version of that scripture and it reads as follows: "After getting them established, He stayed with them until the end, Gloriously completing what he had done. " This shows that God won't leave us, But it doesn't rule out the possibility where we can leave God.

You used 1 Thessalonians 5, But that scripture only shows that God won't take away your salvation randomly, Per se, For no reason. The same goes for 1 Corinthians 1:8-9.

Here are my responses to the 14 steps:

"Declare God's Grace as Insufficient"

This is completely doable, One simply has to say it. I'm not saying that saying it will make it true, By the way, Just that it will be you rejecting his grace.

"Find the Faith of Christ to be Faulty"

Again, This is doable.

"Get Christ to Take Back His Righteousness"

Christ doesn't have to take it back, One just has to refuse it.

"Have The Pardon Removed From Your Sin"

As I showed with the above two scriptures, This can happen if you continually sin.

"Convince The Father To Fail In His Commitment"

This can technically happen? Not really, Because God will never leave us, But in the sense that we refuse Jesus and then are sent to hell for our sins.

Break The Father's Seal of The Spirit"

See the scriptures above.

"Change the Meaning of "Everlasting"

Feel free to correct me here, But doesn't everlasting mean the object of life? So if that life is taken away, Then it's condition(everlasting) doesn't matter.

Unbirth Yourself from the Family of God"

Read the scriptures above.

Nullify Your Adoption by the Father

Read the scriptures above.

"Separate Yourself from the Love of Christ"

Why wouldn't this be possible? Yes, Christ will always love us, But we still have the choice to refuse it.

"Remove Yourself from the Premises of Heaven"

This one is null because I am specifically talking about losing your salvation before you die/go to heaven.

"Take the Holy Spirit with You to Hell
Take the Son with You to Hell"

I don't really have an answer for either of these. The best I could say is that the two only stay with believers, So if you refuse Jesus then you lose your status as a believer. I'm not sure though. . .
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
92 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
don't falsely accuse me. My bio says no such thing. It is listed as other. I do indeed go to a Pentecostal church. But I believe in oneness of Christianity. However, Truth is more important to me than title, That is why a church can call themselves a sect, But they are Christianity regardless of title, They just simply have disagreements about the word or ideas about how the bible should be understood.

The spirit leads me to true interpretation, You have no understanding or exegesis of the scripture because your eyes have been blinded by Satan, Therefore your understanding of spiritual things is undone.

So, I will not regard your philosophy of scripture or your interpretation because it is not based on understanding the nature of God, But a human understanding.
Posted by 21stCenturyIconoclast 3 years ago
21stCenturyIconoclast
Melcharaz,

OMG, Here we go again. The church of the pagan faith of Christianity has many DIVISIONS, As listed in the link below. Melcharaz, Please be ignorant regarding your pagan faith on your own time, Okay?
https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

Firstly, You are not a True Christian, But a pseudo-christian, In name only, Because a pseudo-christian like you does not follow all of the inspired words of the bible, But cherry pick it and disregard the horrific parts that you are to follow. Get it?

YOUR HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE: "I am a Christian, Not a sect or denomination of it. "

Huh? Your embarrassing bio page states that you are a snake handling primitive Pentecostal, Which equals a DIVISION of the faith of Christianity, Hello, Anybody home today?

YOUR QUOTE: "I don't need a title or name to assert the truth or to view scripture properly"

Okay, So you assert the truth in viewing the scriptures properly to show that your mythical ever loving and forgiving Jesus is a blatant serial killer. Good for you Melcharaz, You are being honest for a change.
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
The bible says that the church has no division. Mankind had disagreements with the bible and here we are with 10+ sects or denominations of Christianity. No. I am a Christian, Not a sect or denomination of it. I don't need a title or name to assert the truth or to view scripture properly.
Posted by 21stCenturyIconoclast 3 years ago
21stCenturyIconoclast
Melcharaz,

Your ignorance and ineptness of your primitive and disgusting faith has no bounds!

YOUR QUOTE: "christianity has no division, Therefore i cannot answer your question. "

You are a comical snake handler oneness Pentecostal, Then why aren't you a Jehovah Witness? You believe in a triune of your serial killer Jesus where he is Yahweh god incarnate, But a JW believes that Jesus is just the son of Yahweh god. Now, Show me where there is not a DIVISION among the two pagan faiths? !

Begin.
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
@infakewars
how come you don't love yourself?
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
christianity has no division, Therefore i cannot answer your question.
Posted by 21stCenturyIconoclast 3 years ago
21stCenturyIconoclast
InfakeWars,

YOUR QUOTE: "Iconoclast, If you debated as well as you commented, Even retarded children could beat you. "

Barring that you disparaged retarded children in the way you did, I can see that you're still healing from me easily making you the fool in another thread because of your blatant ignorance upon the topic at hand. I am so sorry, But you'll just have to get used to it, Okay?
Posted by 21stCenturyIconoclast 3 years ago
21stCenturyIconoclast
melcharaz,

2nd post to you regarding my post you have failed to answe in this threadr:

What DIVISION of Christianity do you follow? Hopefully you won't run away from this very simple question, Especially since all of DEBATE. ORG is watching, And especially Jesus is watching too, Okay?

Awaiting your prompt reply, Thanks.

Melcharaz, Are you SCARED? Are you too EMBARRASSED to tell us what DIVISION of the faith you have swallowed? WWJD, Run, Or stand ground to defend it?
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
Amen melcharaz
Posted by melcharaz 3 years ago
melcharaz
proverbs 26:4
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