The Instigator
sonicbro2000
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Leaning
Con (against)
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Children can consent (Debate With Leaning)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/13/2020 Category: Society
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,755 times Debate No: 126520
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sonicbro2000

Pro

Your frontal cortex isn't developed "fully" until your 25, Does that mean until you're 25 you are unable to make rational decisions? No. The age of consent is just an idea we fabricated in the last century when we decided to tie it to education. We somehow decided 18 is some magical number that in reality has no meaning when it comes to maturity. Children over 6 years old are perfectly capable of making their own decisions regardless if you think otherwise. The government denied rights to children for countless of lifetimes for the same reason, And that reason is no longer acceptable. Due to our modern age of technology information is accessible to anyone of any age, And people can learn billions of things in a lifetime faster than before. Also, The only reason the child in question isn't "mentally mature" is because they were taught not to be. I believe that if we really wanted too, Millions of children will be able to have the same knowledge like any other adult.
A well-educated 6 year old is capable of making basic adult decisions. Most 6 year olds are not well-educated, Because our education system is incredibly flawed. Our culture defines kids as kids, And generally speaking they are considered as fragile goods. Too inexperienced to have the capacity and perspective to understand how to make decisions not based on hormonal pressures. But society can change, And we can in theory have and let 6 year olds make adult decisions. Sex is like poison. You take the poison, Then you blame the manufacturers that you got sick. Consent is much the same. Think of like a person who's trying spicy food. He doesn't know it's THAT spicy, Yet he tries it anyways, Then he suffered the conciencinces. Y'all don't see the big picture. You were raised on the idea the children aren't equal to adults society denied you rights, So as a result, You have been brainwashed into thinking that children don't deserve rights. "And before that alcohol can be very bad for it. " Alcohol can be bad for you at any age because of the size of your kidney. This has nothing to do with age, And anyone with a bad kidney can suffer alcohol poisoning. "If it was legalized then people could easily manipulate children into doing that. " People brainwash children into worshipping a god but that isn't illegal. You have no claims that sex can be bad for you. The only reason that you may think this is because you again, Brainwashed by your parents and society. Parents are just a tool the government and society uses to force the public's beliefs down your throat before you can actually think for yourself. " I know for a fact that I am very gullible. " That's a you problem and not all children are gullible. And so can adults be just as gullible. "Doing that at a young age would definitely affect a child deeply even if they agreed to it. " Doing anything can affect your health for the worse, I. E. Candy, But that isn't illegal even though you can get numerous diseases from it. If we all based our laws around mortality and what we find what's right and wrong, We would not have freedom at all. If we base our laws around health and safety, Our rights will cease to exist. If we base our laws around ethicality, Our privileges of being human will perish in the corruption of our own judgment. A child once taught how to speak will be able to make choices and thus consent. Knowledge is as wide as infinity, But if we keep people from being able to make choices and learn from their mistakes until they reach that infinity, They will cease to have the same amount of freedom and choice that early in their life again. Obviously the majority of you don't understand the significance of murder compared to dancing, Or as most of you call "softcore CP". "they're basically trying to talk about how exploiting kids or sexualizing kids is wrong while doing the same thing in the movie" A majority of movies, Tv show, Etc. Shows __ to proof __ is wrong, They however did not really did it. However, They are not taking advantage of children nor is equal or contributing to CP. Removing CP is one, Burying the problem and two, Censoring and ignoring the 1st amendment on the bases of "child abuse". I don't give a cr ap what it is, The fact of the matter is if someone wants to see it let them see it, And they're not contributing to the abuse of children, Nor are commiting a crime and should not be labeled as "pedophile enabler" or "pedophile". Or should receive an unfair and biased judgement and sentence to more that 10+ years in prison and the bases of a violation of children's rights. It's the child's body, Their choice whether they understand it or not. Saying that just because their children means they automatically don't know what their doing is biased and incorrect. There is no true difference between child and adult. The media has been lying to you that all children are always dumb, Stupid, And innocent, And should be denied rights because of it. Adults act the same way. Just because you think they aren't mentally prepared, Doesn't mean you should deny rights to children on the bases of thought. It doesn't matter what you think, It's their body, Their choice. "The mental state of the girls in the movie will definitely be negatively affected in the near future. " They said the same about porn stars. The children consented and so did the parents. " frankly they deserve to be. " If you believe this then you are the one who needs help. No one "deserves" to be sentenced to prison. No one "deserves" to be sent to death. It's their child. Let them decide what they want their child to do. It's not society's choice. It's both the child's and parent's. "you should definitely not have kids in the first place. "By that logic you shouldn't have anything. Just because society thinks you don't deserve it, Doesn't mean that they don't. If society disagrees with everything, And sentencing you to prison and the based of that they think you need "mental help" you are just burying the problem. "When you tear out a man's tongue, You are not proving him a liar, You're only telling the world that you fear what he might say. " "Are tone deaf, Ignorant idiots. " So are you by repeating the same a ss thing without thought. By repeating "ChIlDrEn CaN't CoNsEnT" is supporting the denial of rights to children. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which regulate an establishment of religion, Prohibit the free exercise of religion, Or abridge the freedom of speech, . . . "'Congress shall make no law "abridging the freedom of speech. ' It doesn't have an age restriction. Yet for the last 50 years, The Supreme Court has essentially written young people out of the First Amendment, Holding that their rights to speech and access to information are limited and conditional. As a result, Young people experience infringements on their rights in countless situations. Moreover, The exceptions that have been carved out for youth often affect the speech rights of adults as well. "
-https://ncac. Org/update/minors-and-the-first-amendment
I believe that the freedom of speech includes consent, Thus children legally should be able to consent.
Leaning

Con

I'll be taking my side of this debate, To argue that 'children, Cannot preform informed sexually consent. Function wise, Since legal wise, It's 'already 'illegal.
Here's my attempt, Then.

DEFINITIONS,
(A) CHILDEREN,
(B) CONSENT.

(A) CHILDEREN,
"a human being between the stages of birth and puberty, Or between the developmental period of infancy and puberty The legal definition of child generally refers to a minor. (Wikipedia)" - Stealing this quote and source from chungusfanatic79's debate.
"School-aged child (ages 6"12 years)" - Wikipedia
Seeing on how you claimed in round 1,
"Children over 6 years old are perfectly capable of making their own decisions regardless if you think otherwise. " - sonicbro2000
My definition ought do fine per this debate.

(B) CONSENT,
What am I talking about when I say informed sexual consent?
"An informed consent can be said to have been given based upon a clear appreciation and understanding of the facts, Implications, And consequences of an action. Adequate informed consent is rooted in respecting a person's dignity. To give informed consent, The individual concerned must have adequate reasoning faculties and be in possession of all relevant facts. Impairments to reasoning and judgment that may prevent informed consent include basic intellectual or emotional immaturity, High levels of stress such as posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or a severe intellectual disability, Severe mental disorder, Intoxication, Severe sleep deprivation, Alzheimer's disease, Or being in a coma. " - Wikipedia Informed consent
I'm talking what for I expect civilized society to understand about the word consent, Though it branches out into many fields and subjects. This debate is regarding children and sexual consent.
"We don't take willingness to be sufficient for consent in other problematic scenarios, E. G. In minors, Very drunk adults, People with Stockholm Syndrome, Etc" - reddit r askphilosophy comments 3dgitu why is bestiality wrong
"Consent has three necessary elements " understanding, Voluntariness, And permission. As students leading the USC consent carnival spelled out, Consent is affirmative, Coherent, Willing, Ongoing, And mutual " not just one but all of these criteria. " - hopeferdowsian the meaning and importance of consent for people and animals

REBUTTELS,
(C) BRAIN DEVELOPMENT
(D) THE HISTORY OF THE AGE OF CONSENT
(E) BRAIN DEVELOPMENT, EXPERIANCE, AND KNOWLEDGE
(F) DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CHILD AND ADULT
(G) SEX, CONSENT, SOCIETY
(H) CP
(I) THE RIGHTS OF CHILDEREN
(J) THE FIRST AMENDEMENT

(C) BRAIN DEVELOPMENT
The debate's talking about children, 'not young adults.
The development of the brain is not the only variable factoring into the question. It's one of many, If some other variable is particularly strong, Then the need for a fully developed brain can be diminished. Inversely if some other variable is particularly weak, Then the need for a developed brain can be increased. But a brain, And some level of development is still needed.
As different societies hold different views on the importance of brain development, Per the experiences, Needs, And interpretations they hold. Nations have different age requirements.
Which brings us to,

(D) THE HISTORY OF THE AGE OF CONSENT
"In traditional societies, The age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, Or a tribal custom. In most cases, This coincided with signs of puberty, Menstruation for a woman, And pubic hair for a man. " - Wikipedia Age of consent
"The first recorded age-of-consent law dates from 1275 in England; as part of its provisions on rape, The Statute of Westminster 1275 made it a misdemeanor to "ravish" a "maiden within age, " whether with or without her consent. The phrase "within age" was later interpreted by jurist Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) as meaning the age of marriage, Which at the time was twelve years of age. " - Wikipedia Age of consent
"Age of consent laws were, Historically, Difficult to follow and enforce: legal norms based on age were not, In general, Common until the 19th century, Because clear proof of exact age and precise date of birth were often unavailable. " Wikipedia Age of consent
The 19th amendment was passed in 1920, By which women achieved the right to vote in America.
The Genocide Convention was the first human rights treaty adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 9 December 1948.
That something is more recent to history does not invalidate the rightness or logic of it.
Even ancient societies had laws or traditions that recognized people coming to maturity. Though the tendency of humanity to die early in life, Own other people, War with one another. . . Meant arranged marriages, Meant people procreated earlier in life, Went to war earlier. . Not because it was right, But because of necessity, And limited views of older societies.

(E) BRAIN DEVELOPMENT, EXPERIANCE, AND KNOWLEDGE
Books and teachers existed in ancient times, Those they taught were still children. They may possess more knowledge that children not taught, But they would still not be comparable to themselves in ten or twenty years. For possessing knowledge as 'well as a more developed brain, And experiences of life experience.
Mental maturity is something gained with time. Unless we invent some type of machine that allows us to fast develop a child's biological brain, Force into that brain numerous experiences.
A child who reads a book will have a lesser understanding of it, Compared to when they read it as an adult. This is due to the fact that understanding can only occur based upon other knowledge held that grants cross reference understanding to the information being understood.

(F) DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CHILD AND ADULT
Compare a child who has received education, Experience, And development for 6 years.
To a child who has received education, Experience, And development for 12 years.
To a young adult who has received education, Experience, And development for 18 years.
To a young adult who has received education, Experience, And development for 24 years.
And so on.
Education, Experience, Brain development, And many other factors are all part of human development. Even if you ramp up one of those factors to the max, It still needs the others. And still without some fantasy science fiction technology, Education and experience can only be packed into 6, 12, 18, 24 years, So well.

(G) SEX, CONSENT, SOCIETY
If sex was like poison in the fact it possess possible dangers to one's health. Then I would blame the person who gave it to me without telling me what it was, 'especially if they told me it was medicine or food rather than poison.
There's a reason we make companies label their products, There's a reason we don't like companies trying to sell cigarettes to kids with toy commercials.
And Again, A child does not possess the same faculties or understanding of sex that an adult has. Sex and children cannot be compared to spicy food.
Children do not have the same rights as adults, Because children are not adults.
Nor do adults have the same rights as children, Because adults are not children.
Humans are a product of their environment, Nature and nurture.

"Is teaching moral values to children brainwashing or educating? " - Sal
"Educating. Instead of getting into some complex psychological discussion, Just look at who's doing the informational uploading and why. " - Rob1_Billion
"For instance, A cut and dried example of a parent teaching a child mathematics is not brainwashing. However, Telling your children a lie because you expect them to disobey you if you tell them the truth is probably stepping over that line. Assuming, That is, You are using a very loose definition of the word. " - Rob1_Billion
"What is brainwashing? " - Sal
"a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, Social, Or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas" - Rob1_Billion
"Make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure" - Rob1_Billion
". . . Especially through the use of torture, Drugs, Or psychological-stress techniques" - Rob1_Billion
"If you are using the term as loosely as I believe you are, Then you wish to find the distinction between where advice turns into rhetoric. There is no fine distinction; all one can do is examine the motives of the advisor. If the motives are directly for the benefit of the advisee, Then there likely will not be a conflict of interests. " - Rob1_Billion,
Education vs. Brainwashing DDO

Children come into this world without any knowledge, Understanding, Or property. It is right that there should be a period of instruction under the guidance and protection of guardians, Before they assume a role in the adult world.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent. " " Qui-Gon Jinn

People are allowed freedoms, But when freedom is spoken of in society, It is not unlimited freedom that is spoken.

(H) CP
CP, Is not comparable to children in Hollywood.
Murder is wrong and illegal, Hence why the creation of snuff films are regulated against by law.
There is a 'clear difference between depiction/fiction, And actuality.

(I) THE RIGHTS OF CHILDEREN
Children have rights. As is 'clearly seen by the existence of child services and laws that exist to protect children from abuse, Or exist to ensure them voice and a level of autonomy.
"Gillick competence is a term originating in England and is used in medical law to decide whether a child (under 16 years of age) is able to consent to their own medical treatment, Without the need for parental permission or knowledge. " - Wikipedia, Gillick competence, S8
Rights are applied to people by virtue of their capabilities and what they 'are.

(J) THE FIRST AMENDEMENT
Still requires the religions to follow the laws of the land and constitution.
For example, We don't allow the practice of some theoretical religion that allows live human sacrifices.
Debate Round No. 1
sonicbro2000

Pro

Sorry for the wait:

"Why is bestiality wrong" Bruh. Dogs CAN consent to sex with a person (through their body language). In case you have doubts about this, Just tell me HOW you would FORCE a male dog to hump a woman. With a guy and a female dog, It is a bit more subtle, But those who know and trust and LOVE their dog to this level can read her and know if she is "in the mood". Going by that logic humans can't consent because humans are animals. Many animals do have behavior, Such as capuchin monkeys that will flirt with a male for days to mate with him and I've observed capuchins doing this courting towards humans. Animals can consent you just have to know the behaviors that are displayed. Saying they can't consent is like saying a nonverbal human has no ability to consent when they could be trying to consent but because we rely so heavily on spoken language we think it has to speak in order to consent. Society is to blame for all of y'all's lack of truth. I preach the truth, And it is right. Animals can consent, But it doesn't make it right. Just because it is unsafe, Or it's immoral, Doesn't mean that it should be illegal and people should go to prison for it. A lot of things are "unsafe" or "immoral" but at the end, The 1st amendment protects everything, And everyone, And even if you think not, Doesn't mean that isn't the truth. Having consensual sex with animals is not abuse, Nor is it "zoosadism". Get your facts straight. Zoosadism is pleasure derived from cruelty to animals.
"Mental maturity is something gained with time. " Yes it is, But it solely depends on the person, Not the average. Most of the arguments brought up by people is based on the majority, And has nothing to do with age. "This is due to the fact that understanding can only occur based upon other knowledge held that grants cross reference understanding to the information being understood. " So basically in order to understand knowledge, You need to have knowledge. Wtf. Age has nothing to do with mental maturity and vise versa, It solely depends on the person. Most people might not understand a certain topic and in so change their opinions as their life goes on. Children are more likely yes, But this solely depends on the person and not the age. A 18 year old may not understand politics and might be easily susceptible to corruption and biases, But does this mean they should not be allowed to vote? Knowledge comes from both facts and experience, But since facts can be proven to be incorrect and bised, The best way to truly understand something in not what other people say, But through your own experience. For example, You do not need to learn the entire history of candy in-order to know if you want to try some candy. You should, But it should not be required in order to gain the right. "Compare a child who has received education, Experience, And development for 6 years. To a child who has received education, Experience, And development for 12 years. To a young adult who has received education, Experience, And development for 18 years. To a young adult who has received education, Experience, And development for 24 years". Are you asking me to compare? "Education, Experience, Brain development, And many other factors are all part of human development. Even if you ramp up one of those factors to the max, It still needs the others. " Incorrect. You only need the first two, The quote un-quote, "brain development" is a lie. The brain has nothing to do with knowledge, A 4 year old can decide between candy and food based off of facts and experience from last time. They do not need to read an book about candy in order to understand if they want it or not. Even if they "do", They would still be cerious and want too, Even if they didn't understand it. If a child, Or anyone, Was to want something, They will do anything to get it. Also, Brain development is not required to understand knowledge. "Then I would blame the person who gave it to me without telling me what it was, 'especially if they told me it was medicine or food rather than poison. " You took the poison without knowing what it was, It was not the other guy's fault for your lack of knowledge. Everything in life has it's risk, And sex is just one of the few. "Sex and children cannot be compared to spicy food. " Yet the same people, (insult not intended. ) feel it's right to compare sex to rape. Dancing to murder. Etc. It is both irrelevant and not the point. The point is, That it's the child and anyone else's right to their own body, And their own choice. If I didn't understand the history of cars should I not be able to drive? In the context of thruma, Quote: "Society is full of people who love to find a reason to hate. This hatred is what harms children. The world is proliferated with young people who experience and enjoy sex. When those young people speak out in support of their experiences they are mocked and ridiculed by most of the same people who hate pedophiles. This is because ignorance hate knows no bounds. It is also because people love to absolve themselves of the responsibility of their own actions. . . . It's always someone else's fault, Never their own. For how could they be wrong? Surely they are not the ignorant ones right? The modern day pedophile is the scapegoat for modern day society's failure to address sexual freedom appropriately. It's not that sex is harmless now that society has advanced to deal with stds and pregnancy, No it is all a conspiracy of evil vampire, Pedophiles from the planet Mars sexualizing our youth so that they can drink their blood and eat their flesh after screwing their brains out and sacrificing them to the Devil! It is time to get back to reality. If you have relationship problems it is because you have bad relationship skills and those are learned from experience. However, Sex is harmless, Having and orgasm never traumatized anyone. It is ignorance and hateful people that traumatize others. " - A wise man called Thanthan.
"Children do not have the same rights as adults, Because children are not adults. Nor do adults have the same rights as children, Because adults are not children. Humans are a product of their environment, Nature and nurture. " Children can and will be adults if they were allowed too. The only reason why they might fail in life if they were able to, Is because society denies them the right to a job, Etc. If a child was able to make a living, A majority of children would. Just because it's the was "nature intended" doesn't mean that it is how we need to make our laws. Also, Wtf is with the rob and sal conversation? "It is right that there should be a period of instruction under the guidance and protection of guardians, Before they assume a role in the adult world. " That time is when they gain conscious and are able to learn on their own. That age can be anywhere from 4-6, However *can differ depending on the person*. "'The ability to speak does not make you intelligent. '" No it doesn't, But it does grant to the ability to learn and communicate. Even with deaf/mute people, Their are other ways to get people education, And the current school system is flawed and is to blame for the children's lack of education. "People are allowed freedoms, But when freedom is spoken of in society, It is not unlimited freedom that is spoken. " Uhh. . . Society is corrupt. "Murder is wrong and illegal, Hence why the creation of snuff films are regulated against by law. " Keyword, CREATION. The people homicide should be jailed, However, This doesn't mean that the movie shouldn't be viewed. This is where the 1st amendment protects films like this. Arresting people on the bases of CP because it was a "snuff film" was after the fact and is against the 1st amendment. "There is a 'clear difference between depiction/fiction, And actuality. " Yet, People are tripping over "Cuties". "For example, We don't allow the practice of some theoretical religion that allows live human sacrifices. " If the sacrifices are consensual then it should be allowed, But if it was any other way the people committing the murder will be jailed. Not the people who practiced the religion and *didn't* commit any recorded crimes.
Leaning

Con

BEASTS, MEN, SIGN LANGUAGE, 1ST AMENDMENT

"The thing is, The term "consent" implies "informed consent" - that is, One understands what is happening, And why, And what the potential implications and consequences are.
For this reason, We do not expect animals, Children, Mentally impaired or under-the-influence adults to consent. Yes, They can be enthusiastic about sex. Yes, They may be partaking with pleasure.
No, It does not mean that they fully understand what is going on, Or that their consent is free from manipulation, Pressure, Coercion, External affecting factors, Or authority of someone with more experience and mental capacity.
Generally, We only expect adult humans to be able to say: yes, I know what sex is. Yes, I know that it can lead to pregnancy or health issues. Yes, I am capable of taking the necessary precautions. Yes, I am doing this of my own free volition, Out of my own free choice, And without being influenced by decisions of others or by decision-impairing substances. "
- Alice Vits, Of Quora

Dogs hump legs for reasons other than sex, Including,
"Dominance,
A reaction to something that has excited the dog, Like visitors arriving,
Or a sign that a dog hasn"t been socialized correctly and doesn"t know appropriate canine behavior. "
I argue your interpretation of animal behavior shallow, But this is all besides the point, As we are speaking about human children, Rather than animals.
I spoke of animals only 'briefly to accentuate my point of consent.
But blazes, You took it in a strange direction, Next you'll be telling me that humans can marry animals other than humans, Or that lamas can pay taxes.
I say No, Other than the human animal, Animals are incapable of informed consensual sex with a human.
Google, Sources.
purina au en dogs behaviour humping X WeaSnIU
thesprucepets why do dogs hump
pets webmd dogs features humping why do dogs do it

Sign language, Writing of words exists for mute humans.
You don't have to 'verbally speak for consent, But it 'does need to be "affirmative, Coherent, Willing, Ongoing, And mutual"

"The 1st amendment protects everything, And everyone, And even if you think not, Doesn't mean that isn't the truth. " - sonicbro2000
Once again you make a mistaken claim about the first amendment, And fail to submit evidence, Logic, Or proof, To back your claim.
Here is my evidence,
"Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular analogy for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating panic. The phrase is a paraphrasing of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. 's opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, Which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. The case was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, Which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e. G. A riot)" - Shouting fire in a crowded theater, Wikipedia
And by my evidence, One can see that The 1st amendment does not protects everything, And everyone.
There are 'limits to what speech it protects, And limits to 'who it protects, Should their speech 'fail to be limited to what speech the 1st amendment 'does protect.

MENTAL MATURITY, BRAIN DEVELOPMENT, CANDY AND POISEN, KNOWLEDGE
I note that sonicbro2000 agreed with my statement,
"Mental maturity is something gained with time. "
Though they argued that it depends on the person, Not the average.
While this is true for anomalies, Mentally impaired individuals for instance, Even with time, Are not able to develop to the extent of people 'not mentally impaired.
But still an average exists, For as certain as biological markers exist within time frames average. So too mental development runs this trend. Which is why hospitals have guidelines on how to treat different patients depending upon their age, Their age which helps determine what circumstance of life they'd be in.
Age is a reasonable marker, To use in junction with others in determining the state of a person. As well as how informed consent applies or not, To them.

I reiterate my statement
"understanding can only occur based upon other knowledge held that grants cross reference understanding to the information being understood. " - Leaning
Basics of subjects are studied so that a person can understand higher concepts.
A person cannot understand Advanced Calculus, Without having first learned math below that.
So basically in order to understand knowledge, You need to have knowledge.

On maturity again, Some animals can mature faster, Better, Based upon nutrition and care, But we are not speaking of Mayflies that live, Mature, Die in a day or two.
But of humans. And 'of humans, More time is needed for maturity, Including mental maturity.
No matter how my opponent claims knowledge can be jammed and forced into a 6 year old. They are incorrect. There is a limit to what can taught, A limit to what can be retained. Time is needed.
There is no Magic or SciFi pressure cooker for human maturity.

My opponent would let children have the right to eat poison if they so desired, Claiming it their right to choose what they want.
I say they are mistaken, It is a duty of the elder's to safeguard the younger. Especially family.

My opponent claims "the brain has nothing to do with knowledge, "
But I ask you audience, Would we humans be as we are with the brain of a chimp?
Or a dog?
No, I say. Our brains are what grants us the ability to store and understand knowledge within ourselves. Now take the game of PeekaBoo
"Peekaboo is thought by developmental psychologists to demonstrate an infant's inability to understand object permanence. Object permanence is an important stage of cognitive development for infants. In early sensorimotor stages, The infant is completely unable to comprehend object permanence. Psychologist Jean Piaget conducted experiments with infants which led him to conclude that this awareness was typically achieved at eight to nine months of age. He claimed that infants before this age are too young to understand object permanence. A lack of object permanence can lead to A-not-B errors, Where children reach for a thing at a place where it should not be. " - Peekaboo, Wikipedia
How can age and development 'not have relation to the brain, Knowledge, And understanding?

It's 'because children don't possess the knowledge of an adult that gun safes exist, That medicine is kept in child proof bottles in locations 'away from children.
A child plays with a gun and thinks fun, Then accidentally blows their head off.
A child eats some medicine, Thinks tasty, And overdoses.
Let sonicbro2000 not persuade you, Children are not equitable to adults.
Children do 'not understand sex.

RAPE, SEX, DANCING, AND MURDER
"Yet the same people, (insult not intended. ) feel it's right to compare sex to rape. Dancing to murder. " - sonicbro2000
I don't understand what you're saying here.

SELF OWNERSHIP, CARS, LOVE, HATE
We live in a society that advocates a guardianship, A trust, To be held for children, Until they gain some education, Some experience, Some physical maturity.
We do not cast them to wolves and the elements, To make as best they can in life.
If you're going to drive a car, It isn't asked that you understand the history of cars. But it is asked that you understand the harm cars can cause, That you understand the rules of the road. To do otherwise would be irresponsible of society.

It is not asked that children learn the history of sex, But it is asked that they gain an understanding of it, Themselves, And it's effects, That they understand the laws of society regarding sex.
Hatred of pedophiles, Does not harm children, So much as pedophiles loving children and deluding themselves to the point they molest children.
A hatred of wolves is understandable to me, Though the wolves may love predation.
People die of pregnancy, Die of STDs. Sex is not some game of thumb wrestling or pattycake, It's an act of procreation.
My opponent implies predators are acceptable if they wear a condom, And abort their victims child, Or pat their heads kindly.
Under the ethical framework Pro suggest, It would be possible for an adult to sexually abuse a child, Threaten them by dint of their power as an adult, Commit upon them lasting psychological harm.

CHILD LABOR, SOCIETY
Oh yes, How terrible it is we don't have children sweatshops anymore. (Sarcasm)
As you say, Children 'will be adults, Should they live, Age, And mature.
'Once this has occurred, They will have the rights of adults.

Society is,
"The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community. " - Oxford Languages
I fail to see how that is corrupt.

CONSENT, CP
You make outrageous claims of society brainwashing, For people disliking wolves.
And claim some cult of human sacrifice consensual and perfectly fine.
By the reasoning you have given a six year old could agree to consent to be murdered, And you would see nothing wrong with it.
As though coercion, Threat, Authority pressing, Does not exist.
I'd rather respond as the British,
"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, And confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs. " - Charles James Napier
To Hindu priests complaining to him about the prohibition of Sati religious funeral practice of burning widows alive on her husband"s funeral pyre.

CP I say it's an abomination to occur, Children should not be molested in such a way.
What control or informed understanding does a 6-12 year old have over their life I ask, Lacking as they are in knowledge, Experience, And maturity.
Again we are speaking of living children, Not images.
Debate Round No. 2
sonicbro2000

Pro

"No, It does not mean that they fully understand what is going on, Or that their consent is free from manipulation, Pressure, Coercion, External affecting factors, Or authority of someone with more experience and mental capacity. " Consent most of the time, Not talking necessarily about sex, Isn't truly "free from manipulation". Most of the time the choice is biased, And was already not truely their choice. If someone prefers gum over gummy bears, They are more prone to chose gum based off of previous experiences. No child would want to sit through a 7+ hour lesson about the dangers of sex, So presumably they would never think about it otherwise unless asked about it. Then most likely they would be curious and consent. "Dogs hump legs for reasons other than sex, Including, 'Dominance, " That almost always retales to sex. "A reaction to something that has excited the dog, Like visitors arriving, " Send me an image of an dog humping to visitors. I have never seen a dog, (or any other animal) hump in excitement. "But this is all besides the point, As we are speaking about human children, Rather than animals. " Yeah your right Lol. ", Animals are incapable of informed consensual sex with a human. " They are consenting by having sex. No they verbally can't speak, So they verbally can't have sex, But how are you going to "rape" a dog. "You don't have to 'verbally speak for consent, But it 'does need to be 'affirmative, Coherent, Willing, Ongoing, And mutual'" No actually, If I consent to eat, I might not understand the risk of choking, Eating to much, Getting fat, Etc. But I still eat. Food has the same risks as sex, Minus the birth. You can still get a parasite. You can still get a disease. You can all get trauma from being forced to eat. Trauma has nothing to do with sex itself, But rather society itself. "And by my evidence, One can see that The 1st amendment does not protects everything, And everyone. " The fire example is a good one, However, It was wrong for him to do it. But that is why we have fire alarms, So people can believe other humans or not. It wasn't the guy who shouted fire's fault, It was everyone else's for believing false fire claims. As we can see, The 1st amendment does indeed protect everything. "Mentally impaired individuals for instance, Even with time, Are not able to develop to the extent of people 'not mentally impaired. " Incorrect. If a person has ADHD it would take time and training to develop the under developed mind, This has nothing to do with age. "So basically in order to understand knowledge, You need to have knowledge. " Tf. "But of humans. And 'of humans, More time is needed for maturity, Including mental maturity. " Time and experience, Not age. Age has nothing to do with maturity, It is simply a biased excuse to deny rights to children. "Their age which helps determine what circumstance of life they'd be in. " And those "circumstances" are enforced by law. Lets say a child's parented died in a plane crash. The child is now required by law to rather move in with a relative, Or live in an orphanage, Which depending on age, Will determine how happy the rest of their lives are. Let's say all his relatives are dead, So he is forced into an orphanage against his will. If he is lets say, 13 years old, There is a good chance that he won't be adopted, So he wouldn't have a close guardian for the rest of his life. Lets also say that collage is out of question and most likely the orphanage will not be able to pay for his college education. He would not be able to get a good job once the orphanage kicks him out, And he is doomed to a life with minimum wage. As we can see by this example your life depends on your age and the amount of cash you have on you. If you cannot get a good job at 14, Etc. You can only be paid in minimum wage, This is basically slavery with extra steps. "'Age is a reasonable marker, " HA, HA, HA! "To use in junction with others in determining the state of a person. " It's also an excuse to deny rights to children. "A child plays with a gun and thinks fun, Then accidentally blows their head off. A child eats some medicine, Thinks tasty, And overdoses. " You underestimate a child's knowledge. No reasonable child over the age of 4 years old would willfully pick up a gun and shot himself. Even so, The parent isn't the one who should get in trouble. "'Children are not equitable to adults. Children do 'not understand sex. " They do not "understand" sex, Because they are not taught sex. They are way smarter than you think they are. "We do not cast them to wolves and the elements, To make as best they can in life. " Yet you deny them rights in order to quote; "insure safety". How would you feel if someone decided for you until your 60 years old? How would you feel watching society corruble and stuck in school learning something that would never benefit you in the long one. How would you feel to see everything you like being babied to quote; "prevent children from imateting things they see". "But it is asked that you understand the harm cars can cause, That you understand the rules of the road. " Replace "cars" with sex, Then replace "rules of the road" with Idk, Nothing I guess. "To do otherwise would be irresponsible of society. " So is having sex but that is none of society's concern. "But it is asked that they gain an understanding of it, Themselves, And its effects, " Children can learn sex just like they can learn math. "That they understand the laws of society regarding sex. " There are no "rules". "Rules" is what society decides them to be and enforces these laws by denial of rights, Stimizes, Prison, Etc. As you can see the thing their hating on isn't what causing trauma in children, It's society. If a child was to be instructed to kill someone the child would most likely do it with minimum questions asked, However, If through his/her life was told and punished about violence, They would most likely refuse to do it. I am not defending murder, But in the case of sex, They would not see anything wrong, Unless society prosecutes them about it. It's not that children simply don't understand it, It's also not because their not "mentally developed" it was the fact that they are never given an opportunity to understand sex. They were never given an fair opportunity from the start. "Hatred of pedophiles, Does not harm children". Don't give me that bullsh it. I know for a fact, That if society accepted pedophiles as much as they do with any other regular sexuality, Children would not have the trauma you so called claim they get from "having sex". "Sex is not some game of thumb wrestling or pattycake, It's an act of procreation. " Duh. "My opponent implies predators are acceptable if they wear a condom, " No, You can only get pregnant once you hit puberty, I said nothing about "wearing protection". By the time this sh it is legalized, STDs would most likely been cured. So no more uncomfortable condoms. "Threaten them by dint of their power as an adult, Commit upon them lasting psychological harm. " This is the problem with sex, Not sex itself. I am only defending consensual sex, Not forced sex, Nor rape. Only "statutory rape". "How terrible it is we don't have children sweatshops anymore. " Bruh. Working at mcdonalds isn't a sweatshop. When I say job and career opportunities, I mean like real jobs. Like for example: Music writer, Acritect, CEO, Etc. Not some BS low paying job. "I fail to see how that is corrupt. " I fail to see how you fail to see how corrupt society is. Dude, It is right in front of you bro, Stop being a biased sheep (insult not intended. ) and wake up. "For people disliking wolves. " Pedophiles are not "wolves". By that logic since I disagree with you, Your a "fu cked up sheep who can't see two ways about something and see the plain facts about life, And how you have been lied to your own life". "And claim some cult of human sacrifice consensual and perfectly fine. " It is, As long as it's consensual. "a six year old could agree to consent to be murdered, And you would see nothing wrong with it. " Yep. It's their fault Lol. "Children should not be molested in such a way. " By that logic simply watching horror movies are just as bad as doing the crime. "Lacking as they are in knowledge, Experience, And maturity. " And the only reason they are is because the education system is lacking, Not because of their brains. Their age has nothing to do with maturity, And solely depends on time and the person. "Again we are speaking of living children, Not images. " Watching the rape of a 4 year old is not commiting a crime, And is after the fact that they were raped and the person went to prison. If it was consensual sex, No one would be in the wrong but society deems people who are different to be "fu cking retards who should kill themselves and burn in hell".
Leaning

Con

CONSENT AND MANIPULATION
There's a difference between a pat on the cheek, And a slap to the face.
That gravity exists does not mean we're not free to walk where we wish.
Yet manacles upon our hands and feet that chain us to the wall, 'do mean we aren't free to walk where we wish.
Even if kids whine a bit, Education is a duty of those who came before.
And it's a duty to protect them from acting against their interests and walking into the maws of wolves, I assert.
"Informed consent. You can't consent to something when you don't have all the information. This applies not just in sex, But in relationships, In business, In all areas of life. So when you're starting to engage in sexual activity with them and you have information that you're specifically with-holding because you think they would change their mind if they knew, You're not giving them the opportunity to give informed consent. If you have an STI and you don't tell your partner, They're not giving informed consent. " - Lexa Michaelides, Of Quora.
And if there's an enormous difference in power/position. Doesn't seem like Informed consent to me, When between a six year old and a 26 year old.
Unequal power casts doubt on whether consent is freely given.
"Given the power dynamics that often operate between victim and harasser, A victim may not resist or may even consent to sexual conduct out of fear of job loss or other repercussions if he or she objects. In recognition of this reality, Sexual harassment may occur even if a victim consents. " - Linda Hatch, Blogs psychcentral sex addiction does yes mean yes sexual consent manipulation and gaslighting

DOGS, CONSENT IS NOT PHYSOLOGICAL REACTION
I provided three sources for why dogs hump, You provided anecdotal evidence of a 14 year old, Going by your profile.
I say again, Understanding is part of Informed Consent. Hence one of the reasons many products are required to be labeled. Food for example. Because we hold the company responsible, For harm hidden from the consumer. Harm the consumer did not consent to.
Your argument of physical response is as shallow as that of people claiming that if people physically enjoy sex, It's not rape.

THE 1ST AMENDMENT (AGAIN), MENTAL RETARDATION
The 1st Amendment is a man made law, From my example the earlier round, It should be obvious that it does not protect everything.
What 1st Amendment would you be referring to, If not the man made law?

ADHD, Doesn't sound like much of a mental retardation compared to the one's I'm thinking.
Those fellows unable to form sentences, Who go about drooling and bawling incoherently while flailing their limbs, Are the ones I refer to, Not someone with ADHD or Dyslexia.
People who are 'severely flawedin how their brain developed, No matter the time and training of current society and technology, Cannot overcome the barrier.
Thus is brain development shown to matter in this debate.

KNOWLEDGE
I stand by my statement,
"to understand knowledge, You need to have knowledge"
It's a simple concept.

"Time and experience, Not age. Age has nothing to do with maturity"
sonicbro2000's own words for what is needed for maturity, What exactly do they think age 'is?
Age is 'time, Spent existing.

It is not a mere 'excuse of what rights/privileges a person holds, But an 'identifier of what rights/privileges they 'qualify for.
Age is a reasonable identifier, Used in junction with others, In determining a persons mental state and maturity.

CHILD LABOR
History is rife with the abuses of children regarding them as a work resource.
It is only by the 'law that they are protected, (In many places)
From their own inexperience, And wolves of business.
It is only by the law they are protected from exploitation and sweat shops.
Without laws protecting children from criminals, And themselves, Their lives would be dark.
And truthfully 'still 'is dark, In many places. Even with attempts to structure and enforce correct society.

CHILDEREN AND GUNS
"They do not "understand" sex, Because they are not taught sex. " - sonicbro2000
sonicbro2000 'acknowledges the need for children to be 'taught, Instructed.
Of course I would deny a child unlimited access and the right to handle a gun or sex however it came to their mind. They are not capable of informed decision making.
That does not mean that the child wouldn't be taught slowly over time about those subjects.

"How would you feel if someone decided for you until your 60 years old" - sonicbro2000
Not the same as a child.

"How would you feel watching society corruble and stuck in school learning something that would never benefit you in the long one. "- sonicbro2000
Perhaps I'd advocate for change in school and society. Though such happens over time 'already.

Illiteracy, And a lack of knowledge were par the course before public education, Mandatory education.

"If a child was to be instructed to kill someone the child would most likely do it with minimum questions asked, However, If through his/her life was told and punished about violence, They would most likely refuse to do it. " - sonicbro2000
I don't get what you're getting at here.

RULE AND LAW
There exist manmade laws, And there exist biological laws.
That age has a correlation to maturity, Is a biological law.
What's disputed in manmade laws is how large a correlation it is.

KNOWLEDGE
Eh, Sure, People can be grown/taught/held in ignorance at times.
But the biological facts remain, Of age and understanding.

HATRED OF PEDOPHILES
That the Catholic Church has 'failed to act upon a hatred of pedophilia, Led to repeated instances of abuse.
Their acceptance of that sin, And those who acted upon it, Is a blot upon their Church.

CONSENSUAL SEX
And I say again, That I consider children incapable of consensual sex.
A 30 year old and a 6 year old in a sexual relationship, As far as I'm concerned is rape.

BIAS
Eh, People have bias.
You and I both, From our lives lived and perspectives held.

HORROR MOVIES
"By that logic simply watching horror movies are just as bad as doing the crime. " - sonicbro2000
What logic are you talking about?

HUMAN SACRIFICE
Let it be shown again, That my opponent thinks a six year old can consent to their own human sacrifice.

BRAINS
Are linked to knowledge.
Without a sufficiently advanced and developed brain, Certain concepts are beyond reach.
As I've argued in earlier rounds.
It's not merely a matter of "Schools bad. "

CRIME
"Watching the rape of a 4 year old is not commiting a crime" - sonicbro2000
I'm not going to debate the particulars around CP laws in this round.
Simply state that man made laws exist, Regarding CP.

I 'will say again, A 4 year old is incapable of informed consensual sex.
Debate Round No. 3
sonicbro2000

Pro

"There's a difference between a pat on the cheek, And a slap to the face. " One is painful one is not. "And it's a duty to protect them from acting against their interests and walking into the maws of wolves, I assert. " Yet if an adult was to make poor decisions society decides that he already wasted his life and instead of "protect" them like children, You let him walk. Society always say "enjoy your youth while you can" yet they never give us a chance to do so and instead uses our youth to do things we never wanted to do in the first place. You act like children wanted a "good life" and you act like they personally say that. You don't know their interest or goals because they never tell you what their goals were. They don't know, So it is our job to give them things they may be interested in. But we manipulated that system and make their own lives depend on learning on things they never wanted to in the first place. School used to be about education, But now it is just for the grades. It doesn't matter if you want to learn the subject or not, All that matter is if you get a "good grade". As you can see society is the ones stressing children out. If children are interested in sex, Who are we to decide against them and say what they want to do or not. It is our job to protect them from harm, But in term we violated the very rules we gave them. It's time to change this and give them rights. "You can't consent to something when you don't have all the information. " So if you want candy you shouldn't eat candy until you learn the history of candy? How about the risks of eating. You could choke on it, Or get a disease. Should we prevent children from eating then? Sex isn't the only risk to a human life. "And if there's an enormous difference in power/position. Doesn't seem like Informed consent to me, When between a six year old and a 26 year old. " You keep saying "power difference" when I say, "if all adults and children are equal, There would be no 'power difference'". So as we can see "power difference" is besides the question. "Understanding is part of Informed Consent. " Incorrect. I said consent, Not informed consent. Like I said before, "so if you want candy you shouldn't eat candy until you learn the history of candy? " "Harm the consumer did not consent to. " This is besides the point, And is both of their fault. They made it, Their ate it. This has nothing to do with sex however. No one "made" sex, It is a bodily pleasure, And no one except the person who consented should be responsible. "People claiming that if people physically enjoy sex, It's not rape. " Yes, That's why there are drugs and why it is important to drug the person who consented. It is no longer rape if the person consented, Knowing or not, Under influence or not. "It should be obvious that it does not protect everything. " It does. It was the founding fathers' fault for their poor english. It is not fair to change the rules all of a sudden and kill people based off of our rules. "Who go about drooling and bawling incoherently while flailing their limbs, Are the ones I refer to. " Well if they said yes, They are responsible for everything that happens to them afterwards. "Cannot overcome the barrier. " They could if our technology was better. "It's a simple concept. " Not really. A child learns knowledge and if your logic is true, They would be incapable of doing ANYTHING if they need knowledge to have knowledge. If this was really true, Explain how children learn in schools? "Age is 'time, Spent existing. " Age is not a measure of time bro. Age is simply meaningless and determines nothing. Like I said before, It solely depends on the person. ", But an 'identifier of what rights/privileges they 'qualify for. " So by this knowledge, This can also be used to defend racism, Denial of right towards people of color, Etc. "Age is a reasonable identifier, Used in junction with others, In determining a person's mental state and maturity. " You were simply taught that as has no meaning. If you say age means everything, Then how come people under 6 can make decisions by then hm? Your literally saying that no one under 18 can understand sex which is a lie, And is impossible to make sense. Your saying that a person under 18 is incapable of making educated decisions. If this is true, Explain why children under 18 can be in college? Explain our entire human history since you think your so smart. "It is only by the law they are protected from exploitation and sweatshops. " Bro did you literally not just hear me. I said quote: "Working at mcdonalds isn't a sweatshop. When I say job and career opportunities, I mean like real jobs. Like for example: Music writer, Acritect, CEO, Etc. Not some BS low paying job. " "Their lives would be dark. " Surely letting them work for disney would not make their lives "worse". Your saying paying a child for literally anything is "illegal", But making children do chores for a living isn't? Children didn't ask to be born, So it is only right to let them make their own decisions, And quit babying them. "enforce correct society. " Your definition of a "correct society" is both rigged and biased. If you grew up on the same mentality as me you would see what I see in society, A poor, Greedy, Biased society, Who instead of trying to benefit the lives of others, Finds ways within the system to deny rights to others, And make other live's difficult meanwhile your living it up in the high live. Yeah, Not corrupt at all. "They are not capable of informed decision making. " Because they are not taught to. The only reason why they might not be able to is because our education system decides for them, And turns them into slaves of mankind. "Not the same as a child. " Oh it is so the same. "I don't get what you're getting at here. " It's a paradox my man. I don't know which one. "That age has a correlation to maturity, Is a biological law. " Yes, But has no impact on man made laws. Man made laws can become corrupted as much as "biological law". Law is what society decides it to be, But if society was to be corrupted, That makes our research, Our laws, A likely bias. There is no correlation between man made laws and biological laws. "But the biological facts remain, Of age and understanding. " Biological laws are simply the average rate of change. It has nothing to do with man made laws, Nor does it impact the species. Children can make their own decisions important or not solely based off of previous choices/experiences. If a child requires knowledge in order to understand that knowledge, It would mean that a child is incapable of anything. We all know this is untrue, And it is fact that children can make their own choices. "Their acceptance of that sin, And those who acted upon it, Is a blot upon their Church. " Religion has nothing to do with this debate, And if it did, Religion doesn't make the choice. Religion can become just as corrupt as the law, And the law can become just as corrupt as society. "And I say again, That I consider children incapable of consensual sex. " Yet children can consent to everything else. Quote: "Children can't consent to sex, But they can consent to be born, They can consent to go to school, To be bullied and ridiculed, They can consent to be beaten, They can consent to be degraded, They can consent to be aborted, They can consent to be circumcised, They can consent to change their sex, They just can't consent to have sex, Videos of children being beaten are all legal, Are all legal, Videos of children being killed are all legal, Videos of children being insulted are all legal, Are all legal, But God forbid if someone watched child porn, That person is evil, That person is evil, That person is the spawn of Satan, Because watching children have sex, Is the worst thing ever, Because when children have sex, They are damaged forever, It is worse than watching murder, It's illegal too, Children can't consent, Oh silly you. "
-A wise man named TRUMPMAGADONALDS
"As far as I'm concerned is rape. " This is the most amount of short sideism their is. "What logic are you talking about? " The logic above. "Let it be shown again, That my opponent thinks a six year old can consent to their own human sacrifice. " I don't agree with it, But as long as it's consensual it should be legal. "BRAINS Are linked to knowledge. " Incorrect, You said before that, "KnOwLeGdE eQuAlS kNoWlEgDe" so this is contradictory. "It's not merely a matter of "Schools bad. "" It clearly is, But a person as short minded as you surely wouldn't understand. (Insult not intended. ) "I 'will say again, A 4 year old is incapable of informed consensual sex. " Consent has nothing to do with videos. If the person consented to be on video it's fine. If the person said they consented to be on video, Knowing or not, Fake or not, It is consensual. Sex isn't always rape man.
Leaning

Con

DEGREES OF GRAY, JUSTICE SYSTEM
When does the speed limit cause accidents, When is a person first able to shoot a basketball through the hoop accurately, When is a fetus a person. .
There's subtle gray areas

Justice, Has facets, Some caring for revenge, Others rehabilitation.
But rehabilitation programs and deals exist.
Court's trying to convince my 29 year old meth addicted second brother to accept rehab instead of jail, Despite his crimes. Is that not the state attempting to protect an adult?

YOUTH, THE GOALS OF CHILDEREN, SCHOOL
Seems your argument is heavy in the personally viewpoint here, So I don't mind responding in kind, Here.
Youth, For normal people is a time when much is provided for them in life.
A time when they're learning, Playing, Experiencing firsts in life.
A time of unformed and childlike dreams.
It seems self evident to me, That a child would want a good life, Rather than an evil life full of misfortune.
I was a child myself once, I talked to other children, Saw parts of their own lives lived out and expressed. And still when my paths cross children or information about them. I see children. And I don't see an existence that on the whole wishes for some cruel fate.

I recall learning language in school, Mathematics, Basic nutrition, Science, Biology.
Grades were involved, But to measure how well I appeared to absorb that knowledge.
I also read a large number of books in my free time, That there is a mandatory curriculum, Does not prevent children from pursuing their own interests.

Society is the interaction of people.
So long as people interact, Society will be.
We are the one's who came before children, We are guardians and guides of the younger generations, As they will be to the ones who come after them, And as our own elders are to us.

As I've said and referenced before, Children have rights.

CONSENT
I've already addressed your argument on learning 'all the history of something, As a fallacious argument on your part.
Sex is not the only risk to children, Nor is it the only risk we protect them from.

"if all adults and children are equal, There would be no 'power difference" - sonicbro2000
Children and adults are different, To a vast extent.
If swords and hammers were the same, There would be no difference in their functions.
I find it an absurd statement on your part.
Children and adults are different I say.

INFORMED CONSENT
You've neglected to define consent, Or how it applies to children, So it seems to me anyhow.
While I've stuck to my informed consent.
If someone says a boxer punched someone, Does that truly explain what is being spoken about?
Was it a jab? An uppercut? A straight?
When someone says consent, Does that truly explain what is being spoken about?
I say no, Consent's meaning changes, Based upon if one speaks of law, Medicine, Children, Sex.
And I have spoken of consent as I understand it to relate to sex. Informed Consent. Which I still hold children cannot give.

CONSENT, FOOD, AND
"Harm the consumer did not consent to. " This is besides the point, And is both of their fault. They made it, Their ate it. " - sonicbro2000
Seems to me my opponent is claiming again, That if I served someone food, And neglected to say that it was poison mushroom. My opponent thinks that the person consented to eat poison mushroom, Rather than 'food.

"People claiming that if people physically enjoy sex, It's not rape. " Yes, That's why there are drugs and why it is important to drug the person who consented. It is no longer rape if the person consented, Knowing or not, Under influence or not. " - sonicbro2000
Seems to me, My opponent is claiming that it's not rape if a person enjoys it. Seems to me that my opponent is claiming that drugging someone and banging them, Is not rape.
I say to voters, You should already know these to be false.

THE 1ST AMENDMENT
You are ignoring how the law is literally read and administered by courts.
And trying to push your own viewpoint, Of 'your view of right and wrong.
It's clear enough by the examples I have given, That the 1st Amendment does 'not protect everything.

BRAIN DEVELOPMENT
"They could if our technology was better. " - sonicbro2000
Our technology is 'not better, Thus they cannot develop as normal people do.
Lacking development, Lacking understanding, Lacking control, Lacking knowledge. The severely mentally handicapped and maldeveloped cannot consent.
Thus is brain development shown to matter.

KNOWLEDGE
I'll leave this one to the voter, I've already explained it more than once.

AGE
"Age is not a measure of time bro. " - sonicbro2000
I type age definition in Google, First thing I see is,
"the length of time that a person has lived or a thing has existed. " - Oxford Languages

"That age has a correlation to maturity, Is a biological law. " - Leaning
"Yes, But has no impact on man made laws. " - sonicbro2000

No, I'm certain that manmade laws are effected by the realization of age and it's effect on human biology.

IDENTIFIERS
'What something is 'identified as, Effects on how we act towards it. 'Obviously, Else I would use a plate to drink from, Rather than a cup.
Identifiers tell what something 'is.
Age is an identifier.

A person under six cannot express informed consent regarding sex.
I haven't bothered mentioning the age 18 so much, As the definition I gave in the beginning regarding children was not that of a person 18 years old.

CHILD LABOR
Child labor law - Wikipedia,
Any fool should be able to read about abuse and exploitation of children.
A child is not as capable as an adult.

CHILDERENS DECISIONS
Children pursue paths they have an interest in, Under parental and societal guidance.
And they pursue them with more autonomy, As they age.

Society has many facets.

Still children are incapable of informed consent regarding sex.

RELIGION
A bit of a sidebar, Yes.
But I stand by my statement, That accepting and allowing what wolves call loving behavior towards children, Is 'harmful.

CHILDEREN AND CONSENT
Live CP is illegal to create, And for reasons I've already mentioned, A child is incapable of informed consent regarding sex.
In your long winded rant about consent, I say you mistake experience, With informed consent.
That something 'happens to a person, Is not the same as informed consent.

IVE RESPONDED TO WHAT I THOUGHT RELEVANT
Debate Round No. 4
sonicbro2000

Pro

"When does the speed limit cause accidents, When is a person first able to shoot a basketball through the hoop accurately, When is a fetus a person. . There's subtle gray areas" Bruh no it's just society making a big deal out of it. I can answer everyone of these:
When does the speed limit cause accidents: On a road going over 40 MPH
When is a person first able to shoot a basketball through the hoop accurately: Depends on the person.
When is a fetus a person: When they can eat.
These are not subtle gray areas. It's just people making a big deal out of something. "Is that not the state attempting to protect an adult? " No. It is the state of deciding for a person, Violating their rights. "A time when they're learning, Playing, Experiencing firsts in life. " Yet they get no rights to fully understand the society their in. "It seems self evident to me, That a child would want a good life, Rather than an evil life full of misfortune. " How do you know if it's "misfortune"? It's also none of your concern what their doing. All that matters is if they want to stop doing something. "I also read a large number of books in my free time, That there is a mandatory curriculum, Does not prevent children from pursuing their own interests. " You were forced to read, You were expected to read, So as an result, You quote un-quote "read in your free time". You "realized what you were missing out on", And started reading for your own enjoyment. "As I've said and referenced before, Children have rights. " No they don't. If they don't get to have a say in their own education, Government, Etc. They don't have rights, Quit lying to yourself. "Children and adults are different I say. " Yet you fail to give me a valid point. I disregarded your "power difference" because as long as adults and children are equals, There would be no "power difference". "I say no, Consent meaning changes, Based upon if one speaks of law, Medicine, Children, Sex. " No the meaning means the same: If the person in question agrees to something. "Which I still hold children cannot give. " Children can give consent. That doesn't make it right, I'm just saying the person who had sex with the child shouldn't be arrested, Nor discriminated against, And children should be treated like any other person. It is the child's fault for their own lack of information. "My opponent thinks that the person consented to eat poison mushroom, Rather than 'food. " Yeah they didn't even say, "hey is this poisoned? " They just took a big bite and died, And that is their fault. However, If they asked and you refused to give an answer it is then your fault. "Seems to me that my opponent is claiming that drugging someone and banging them, Is not rape. " It isn't. "I say to voters, You should already know these to be false. " And I say to my voters, That you know you were cheated and lied to for all your life. Ever wonder why you hate pedophiles so much? You don't. You don't even care if their being tortured. The only reason why you feel this way is because you were taught to think this way. You always believed what anyone said, And if you asked any questions you would be flagged as an "enabler" and arrested. Another reason is social conformity. You see what other people are doing, And you do it to both avoid FOMO and Social stigma. This is the only reason why pedophilia, Bestiality, Children, Etc. Are hated so much. Society thinks for other people, And they force people to do it through peer pressure and violence. "It's clear enough by the examples I have given, That the 1st Amendment does 'not protect everything. " It is clear and obvious that it does. Does the 1st amendment protect speech? Yes, So in term it protects everything speech: Video, Written, Spoken. This protects all forms of media, All forms of music, All forms of written speech. Written speech can also be defined as printed, Typed, Automated. Video can be defined as movies, Tv shows, Animation, And porn. Even if it's a snuff film, It's still protected by law. You can deny it all you want, But the law doesn't lie, Society does. It doesn't mean that the people who made it and killed/raped a person doesn't get jailed, It just means that as long as it exist in any format, It is protected and anyone should be able to watch it. Children can consent, So it doesn't make it rape. "Our technology is 'not better, Thus they cannot develop as normal people do. " This is a plain and obvious lie and I'm surprised you believe otherwise. The internet is bigger and more widespread than libraries. The conventral way, Written, Send by mail, Etc. Gives you slower knowledge then one click away. "But not all people may be able to have access to the internet. " And the only reason to blame is society and the economy. "The severely mentally handicapped and maldeveloped cannot consent. " So black people can't consent since their different. White supremacists used the "but the brain is larger than anyone else's" logic to prove how white people are better, But that was proven meaningless multiple times. Are you saying their right? Are you saying that solely the brain's size matters, And not the education it receives? This is plain fabrication an perjury, And it's is just plain deception. I don't care what you believe, Or what your grandma believes, But when society manipulates the law to its own corruption, That's when the problem arises. ""That age has a correlation to maturity, Is a biological law. " Wrong. "No, I'm certain that man made laws are effected by the realization of age and it's effect on human biology. " It shouldn't be. Age is meaningless, And has no impact on one's body, Mentality, Or choices. "Age is an identifier. " Wrong. "A person under six cannot express informed consent regarding sex. " Because they are not taught to. "A child is not as capable as an adult. " Lies, A child has much as potential as an adult would. The only reason why you might think that they don't is because of FOMO and society's corruption. "Still children are incapable of informed consent regarding sex. " Wrong. Children can make just as important decisions as adults can if they were let to. Children aren't "capable" because society simply won't let them. It doesn't matter what you think an important decision is, But rather what the person in question, (the child. ) believes it to be. "But I stand by my statement, That accepting and allowing what wolves call loving behavior towards children, Is 'harmful. " Society is what's causing their own harm.
Leaning

Con

GRAYS
No, Seems to me they're gray areas, A sliding scale, Yet extremes exist.
Were everyone to drive 100 MPH all the time, There'd be a great many accidents.
Babies and young children are incapable of exerting enough force to shoot a basketball through the hoop.
And regarding the fetus, People disagree fervently, Even today.

SOCIETIES HELP
When people are out of their mind, Incapable of seeing reality, Incapable of coherent speech or though, Incapable of acting in their own interests by an evil drugs influence, Then I say it is right of society to help them.
If one saw a man drowning in a river, Surely the correct decision is not to sit upon the riverbank and watch. But to swim into the river 'to the man, And bodily help him to shore and safety.
"Shun-y" K'wan said, 'Is it the rule that males and females shall not allow their hands to touch in giving or receiving anything? ' Mencius replied, 'It is the rule. ' K'wan asked, 'If a man's sister-in-law be drowning, Shall he rescue her with his hand? ' Mencius said, 'He who would not so rescue the drowning woman is a wolf. For males and females not to allow their hands to touch in giving and receiving is the general rule; when a sister-in-law is drowning, To rescue her with the hand is a peculiar exigency. " - The Works of Mencius

MISFORTUNE, CONCERN
"People who were abused as children are more likely to be abused as an adult"
Source, Google, Ons gov uk peoplepopulationandcommunity crimeandjustice articles peoplewhowereabusedaschildrenaremorelikelytobeabusedasanadult


As a member of society, Even as merely a passerby, It should be my concern.
One should not ignore those drowning, Being beaten, Or in poor circumstance.

PARENTS AND CHILDEREN
My siblings and I's parents, Taught us letters, Counting, Colors, Reading, Though we also went to public school. And to an extent we found our own paths and interests in life, Though much of it was by our parents encouragement.
Man is not an island.

CHILDERENS RIGHTS
Wikipedia, Children's rights,
. . .
Well that was easy.

My opponent makes the claim that by comparing children to adults, It is the same as comparing blacks to whites.
I say the two different claims are apples and oranges.
The difference between a child and adult, Is not comparable to the difference of melatonin.

CONSENT
The legal role of consent
There is no single legal definition of consent. Each state sets its own definition, Either in law or through court cases. In general, There are three main ways that states analyze consent in relation to sexual acts:
(1) Affirmative consent: Did the person express overt actions or words indicating agreement for sexual acts?
(2) Freely given consent: Was the consent offered of the person"s own free will, Without being induced by fraud, Coercion, Violence, Or threat of violence?
(3) Capacity to consent: Did the individual have the capacity, Or legal ability, To consent?
Source, Google, Rainn org articles legal role consent


SOME FINAL ROUND POINTS
Let it be shown that my opponent thinks that children can consent without having the information about what's happening, And that it's the childs fault for lacking information.
Let it be shown that my opponent thinks a person can serve you poison as food, And that it's somehow your fault for not asking if the food was poison. And that ridiculously you somehow consented to being poisoned.

HATRED OF PEDOPHILES
I've already covered this.

1ST AMENDMENT
ALREADY COVERED THIS.

TECHNOLOGY
The internet isn't a magic pressure cooker.
Situations still the same as the past when people had lots of books or teachers. Information simply isn't capable of being forced into a person quick enough. Nor does it follow that maturity is 'simply information.

And even though humans being social is what gives rise to technology spreading, My opponent for some reason blames society for the internet not being everywhere.

CHILDEREN AND RACE
A person with brown hair and a person with blonde hair are 'different, But I clearly mean 'more from the word different than such petty differences of pigment.
The brains shape, Size, Development 'clearly matters, Hence why I make such a point about childrens brains or people with mental illness such as Alzheimer's.
I said nothing of different human races being better or worse.
I spoke only of children in comparison to adults.

AGE AND PUBERTY
Puberty, Wikipedia
. . .
Really, What do I have to say?

AGE, CONSENT
It's not a matter of whether a 6 year old was taught informed sexual consent or not.
It's a matter that they're incapable of being taught it.
Nor is Informed Consent merely the information about it.
I refer the reader to my definition in round 1.

I'VE MADE MY POINTS AS BEST I COULD, I LEAVE IT TO THE VOTERS
Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jasmine1742 5 months ago
Jasmine1742
Why would anyone even want to have sex with a 6 year old? THEY'RE JUST CUTE!
Posted by Jasmine1742 5 months ago
Jasmine1742
wtf
Posted by sonicbro2000 8 months ago
sonicbro2000
" don't have much more to say on the topic at the moment, I think. " Alright, Well if you do, Hit me up and we're start a new one.
Posted by Leaning 8 months ago
Leaning
I generally title my comments Part 1, Part 2, And so on, If I have a lot to say in the comments.
Not annoyed, But don't have much more to say on the topic at the moment, I think.
Posted by sonicbro2000 8 months ago
sonicbro2000
I have a 2, 000 character limit. Would I use an pastebin link, Or should I just have an part 2? I feel like your annoyed.
Posted by Leaning 8 months ago
Leaning
Can always comment if you like.
Posted by sonicbro2000 8 months ago
sonicbro2000
I kinda want to debate again, I hate when people have the last word. I feel uncomfortable. . .
Posted by Leaning 8 months ago
Leaning
Should be enough days, Yeah.
Posted by sonicbro2000 8 months ago
sonicbro2000
Yes. 179 days! That should be enough.
Posted by sonicbro2000 8 months ago
sonicbro2000
Society is rigged, And is its own source of its own problems.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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