The Instigator
Amphia
Pro (for)
The Contender
Aileen3310
Con (against)

Christianity Q & A

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 493 times Debate No: 111997
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Amphia

Pro

Hey Aileen. I've noticed that you have a lot of questions about Christianity that are making it hard for you to join the faith.

While I would never call myself an expert by any means, I would love to try and answer some of your questions. I've been experiencing the same thing; at my church I'm known for my constant questioning haha.
Aileen3310

Con

Okay, thanks for offering to answer some of my questions.
I'll start then, here is question number 1:

If Jesus died to take away the sins of humanity, then doesn't that mean that once he was crucified there was no longer any such thing as sin? If his death was the absolution of the human race, why do I still have to follow the religious law, or go to church, or even believe? Am I not already saved by his sacrifice? And if I am not, and there are still rules to follow and sins that could keep me out of heaven, then what, precisely, have I gained from it? Also, why are infants supposedly born in sin? Innocent babies, who have done no wrong?

"The final view is that unbaptized infants are not saved while baptized infants may be. This is the view of the Roman Catholic church and Protestant denominations which teach some form of baptismal regeneration."
https://www.challies.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Amphia

Pro

Thanks for accepting, hopefully I can answer your questions :)

By nature, humans are sinners. We make mistakes, we do things we know are wrong. Not to say we are necesarily evil, just that we are sinful.

Because God is perfect, having a relationship with him requires us to be spiritually pure in his eyes. Since humans are natural sinners, this makes it difficult. In the early days, people could make animal sacrifices (for example) to wash away their sins. They also were baptized.

Then, God sent Jesus to die for us so that our relationship would be easier. What do I mean by this? Well, when Jesus died on the Cross, he took the sin of the world upon himself. So now, all we have to do is believe in God and love him and then we are saved. When God looks at us, instead of seeing a sinner, he see someone who is spiritually clean because Jesus basically intervenes on our behalf.

2 Corinthians 5:21

"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

We still sin, we should always try and be better, we should always ask for forgiveness, it's just that there is NOTHING you could do to earn God's love or forgivenees. God is too good for us, there is nothing we could give him that he needs. The only thing he asks from us is that we love him in return.

The reason we still follow religious law, or go to Church, or believe is because that is what God asks of us. We follow the law because rules keep us in check. We go to Church to worship with other Christians, a fellowship. We can also learn from our religious leader s who study the Bible. We believe becasue we have faith. You are saved, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want haha. God still wants you to try your best to avoid sin and temptation.

There are no sins that could keep you out of Heaven. When you believe in God, you are saved. Remember, this doesn't mean you can just go around doing whatever the heck you want. However, know that God won't stop loving because of your sin.

Regarding babies, that is something that I've found to be odd as wll. How can such an innocent thing be a sinner? In my opinon (just my view), babies have sin in them but they might not show it. When they grow up, they'll sin, but as babies they can't talk or walk, what sin could they possibly do? Murder? Theft? Lying? They can't really outwardly sin (and I have no idea what's going on inside their brains) so I would say it's kind of like a domrant sin. But I have no evidence for this so don't just take my word for it.

Also, since I am not a Catholic (I am non-denominational) I disagree on the veiwpoint that a baby must be baptized to be saved.

In my view, babies don't understand anything. Baptizing them means nothing because it is not their choice at all. They have no idea what is going on. Don't get me wrong, it's fine to baptize a child (though I don't think it is necessary) but it's better to let them decide to get baptized when they feel they are ready. When they're older. That way, it is more real.

An unbaptized baby is not going to Hell. Perhaps, the baby technically isn't "saved" (depends on how you define being saved) but if the baby were to die of SIDS one day, I don't think God would just send the child to Hell because he/she was never baptized. That's abusrd.

I hope I answered some of your questions. Can't wait for you response. :)

Aileen3310

Con

Thanks for your answer. I"m just going to analyse your religion a bit more:

1. So, before Jesus died, people HAD to follow the religious law and give sacrifices to God in order to get to heaven. They had to work hard. But after Jesus died, people literally don"t have to do anything to get to heaven but believe.

It seems that sin was a very big problem for God then. Such a big problem that he had to send his only son to be tortured to death, then be burnt in hell for 3 days in order to get rid of a sin. So what happen now? You yourself said that people do sin, therefore they are sinful. Jesus did not die to get rid of all the sins of the future. So, here it is summed up:

Before Jesus died, God couldn"t STAND people being sinful. He sacrificed his own son to get rid of a "sin of the world" then all of a sudden it didn"t matter as much if people sinned. He now looks at sinful people like they are pure. They can still go to heaven, even if they sin. It don"t matter how big the sin is either.

2. Here a verse that"s blocking me from converting to Christianity.

"If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and forces he to lie with him and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl"s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days." -Deuteronomy 22:28-29

This is the most horrible verse in the Bible I"ve come across. If a man rapes a women, he has to marry her and cannot divorce her? This verse is strictly against a simple human right for a woman. If you get raped for example, will you really be willing to marry a creepy rapist? Even if he rapes you and beats you more you cannot divorce each other? Seriously?

P.S
Sorry if I sound like I"m mocking Christianity a bit...
Debate Round No. 2
Amphia

Pro

Jesus’ Death

Alright, so I might not have explained myself very well. I forgot to add some important information. Sorry about that.

Basically, when Jesus came to save us, he saved everyone: people of the past, present, and future. Before he had been born, people knew that Jesus was coming. So they’d get baptized, make sacrifices, and trust in God. This was essentially how they were saved. They believed in Jesus before he arrived. It was less about the sacrifices and more about loving God that got people saved.

A good thing I’ve heard is that Salvation does not come through good works. Salvation leads to good works. There is nothing you can actually do to get into Heaven except love God.

I think you also put little importance on having faith in Jesus. A lot of people don’t; you’ve said before that your parents don’t believe in God, right? It takes a lot of faith and accepting Jesus is a big deal.

Sin was not a bigger problem in the olden days then it is now. One could argue that sin is worse now because we have more things that enable more temptation and sin. Technology for example.

The reason God sent Jesus was not to get rid of sin. Jesus didn’t die to erase sin. God sent Jesus to make our relationship with him easier and more direct.

”Before Jesus died, God couldn"t STAND people being sinful. He sacrificed his own son to get rid of a "sin of the world" then all of a sudden it didn"t matter as much if people sinned.”

I must have explained it wrong. Jesus’ missions was NOT to get rid of sin. God hated sin then and he hates it now. Sin is never acceptable. However, now, with Jesus, our relationship with God can be much more direct. Now when we sin, we can repent, and we are forgiven.

To be honest, repenting is something we do more for us then for God because we feel bad about sinning. God already knows we are going to sin, but he is always willing to forgive.

“He now looks at sinful people like they are pure. They can still go to heaven, even if they sin. It don"t matter how big the sin is either.”

When we sin, we become unclean spiritually. But because we believe in God, Jesus sort of intervenes on our behalf. Because the Holy Spirit is inside us, when God looks at us, he basically see the Holy Spirit (which is pure) and Jesus. We can have a direct relationship with him because we are not unclean anymore. Don’t get me wrong, sin is still very bad. And yes, sinners can get into Heaven but not because we deserve Heaven. None of us deserve anything. The reason we got to Heaven is because God loves us and wants us to be with Him.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

So, I myself have heard this verse a couple of times and I researched it. The problem with taking Bible verses out of context is that it makes the Bible seem evil and disgusting. When it comes to the Old Testament especially, be careful about just picking Bible verses without full context because it can give you the wrong idea.

But anyway, what I’ve found is that you should look at this verse along with another verse: Exodus 22: 16-17.

Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and forces he to lie with him and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl"s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."

“Together, these passages clearly state that if a man has sex with a virgin who is not betrothed…he is obliged to marry her. He should have sought her father's permission first, negotiated a bride-price, and taken her as his wife. Because he did not, he is punished for this—he now must pay up…and marry her…”



"Also note that "he may not divorce her all his days" – this initially doesn't seem significant but is actually a major punishment.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4… allowed for divorce, but only in the case of sexual immorality…This man now may not divorce his wife even for this reason, but is obliged to continue to support her all his life whatever she does."



"But her father is ultimately in authority over her, as her head, until he hands this authority over to her husband. If the man is unsuitable, the father can refuse to give his daughter to him. How many fathers would give their daughter to a rapist? Not many. So, in general, a rapist would actually have to pay a 50 silver shekel fine to her father, and not get a wife at all."


I’m sorry I didn’t put this in my own words. I felt that the author of the article described it better. Basically, what this person is saying is that if a man rapes a woman (or has consensual sex) without her father’s permission then he must marry her.

Back then, being a virgin was very important for women. Nowadays, it isn’t as big a deal but back then, if a woman was not a virgin, no one would marry her. And since women were not valued, she probably could not get a job to support herself either. She might have to sell herself into slavery or prostitution. The only way to survive honorably was to be married. It’s unfortunate but that is the way it was.

If the man had seduced the woman and then just left her because he was a player or something and people found out she was not “pure”, she would have been scorned upon and ostracized. The Bible commands that the man marry her so that she can be supported and they suffer from the judgement of society together. He can’t even divorce her if she cheats on him.

So now, this leads us into another problem. Why does the woman need her father’s permission before doing whatever the heck she wants?!

Well, back then, the patriarchy was much more prevalent. Everything went through the father. And then when the girl was married, it went to the husband.

Because back then, the father was always the head of the household, doing things required his permission. The Bible does not command that now every girl must do everything her father says. It’s just that back then that was the way life was.

Fortunately, times have changed and a woman (in many places, not all) can generally do what she wants. Marry who she likes. Or not marry at all—it’s her choice.

Hope that clears things up! And don’t worry, you’re not mocking Christianity or anything. It’s normal to have questions.


https://www.gotquestions.org...

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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by mosc 2 years ago
mosc
C/P: "By nature, Humans are sinners. We make mistakes, We do things we know are wrong. Not to say we are necesarily evil, Just that we are sinful. "

Ewwwwwwwwww what a vile guilt trip. The Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Upon this opening thesis stands Biblical morality. Within the human heart the inclination to do both Good and Evil.

This one sided filth which slanders man kind merit absolute and total contempt.
Posted by mosc 2 years ago
mosc
C/P: "If Jesus died to take away the sins of humanity, Then doesn't that mean that once he was crucified there was no longer any such thing as sin? "

Why would anyone accept this possibility as having any moral worth? The idea of human sacrifice a total abomination from all the Prophets of the T'NaCH! How does a matter go from an absolute disgusting filth detestable crime to a thing which breaks Man out of the damnation of eternal hell fire for sin?

The whole theology its totally perverted and calls day night and night day!
Posted by Darth_Unicorns 3 years ago
Darth_Unicorns
This whole thing assumes there is a God
Posted by Darth_Unicorns 3 years ago
Darth_Unicorns
This whole thing assumes there is a God
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