The Instigator
GraysonGg_116
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Sonofcharl
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Christianity is easier to believe than atheism

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/16/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,708 times Debate No: 119015
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (75)
Votes (0)

 

GraysonGg_116

Pro

It is a common misconception that an intelligent person must be an atheist. Some people even believe that one must completely defy logic if they are a Christain. However, This point of view couldn't be more wrong. To start off, I'm just going to make my argument for why God exists, So my opponent can completely understand my point of view.

1. Argument # 1 for why God exists- Creation

A person would have to be ignorant, Not intelligent, To claim there is no God. Over time the problem with human nature on understanding God is questioning how visible he chooses to make himself. Some atheists claim that if God offered evidence, Such as telling us he was real, Then his existence would be evident. However, He's already offered more than enough evidence. He sent his son Jesus down to earth in a physical form, Performed many miracles, And did it all out of love to save us from our sins. And another major piece of evidence that we all take for granted is creation itself. I know you've heard it over and over again, But have you ever taken a look at how magnificent and complex creation really is? There must have been an intelligent design behind this beautiful design.

Argument #2 for why God exists- First existence

Something had to have existed first. There is no reality where everything suddenly existed. One inhumane existent had to have always been here and always continue to be here. And the concept of an intelligent being such as God had to be the only logical explanation.

Argument #3 for why God exists- The Apostles

One of my arguments for why God exists is because of his son Jesus Christ. If you don't believe he was the son of God, That argument would mean nothing to you. So, Let me further clarify why I believe Jesus really was who he claimed to be: Most all the Apostles died in horrific ways, But it wasn't entirely a certainty. What I mean by this is, It's easy to say that the Apostles could have just been following a fake son of God for attention, But when it becomes a matter of life or death, It's no longer logical. All the Apostles had to do to avoid their death in some cases was to renounce Jesus as the Son of God. If it really was a hoax that they were just trying to spread false rumors about, A sensical person would have jumped at the offer to be spared simply for saying they no longer believe something is true. The Apostles refused to do this and were then killed. Most of us might have even said Jesus wasn't the son of God even if we believed he really was, So why would the Apostle die a horribly and avoidable death for a false cause? It doesn't make sense if that is what you believe.

Now to the main part of my argument, Which if I simplify my topic means: You don't have to give up your brain to follow God. In fact, With creation the way it is right now, There is a 10 to the 138th power of a chance that the universe could exist the way it currently does. One slight offset could destroy creation altogether. Now the funny thing is, Scientists also classify anything over 10 to the 50th power as impossible. I'll provide a second example that supports my claim. If you've ever seen Mt. Rushmore, It's a very sophisticated and beautiful structure. It was intentionally designed and is adored by many. A smart person or any person at all would never say "Oh, Mt. Rushmore just randomly happened to form that way. " On top of being extremely ignorant, That's also incredibly disrespectful to the constructors of the carvings. Creation is infinitely more intelligently designed than Mt. Rushmore, And God created it.

In summary, To be an atheist you are basically making this statement:
"Although the random chances of the universe existing are even far beyond impossible, I firmly believe that no one designed it. I do not care how sophisticated the world or even my body is, I choose to believe my existence is the result of a 1 in 10 to the 138th power chance. "

No one would world it this way, But hopefully, This clears up my point. It is a complete and utter lie that smart people aren't Christians. In fact, It is theoretically impossible to be a smart atheist. Given my evidence, It is an oxymoron!
Sonofcharl

Con

Hi.

1) "1 in 10 to the 138thpower chance":
A. A logical person would have to honestly accept that the probability of a god existing by pure chance is exactly the same as the probability of me existing by pure chance.

B. Ultimately we cannot get beyond the thought that at some moment, Matter in some shape or form appeared out of nothing. The something from nothing principle. Magic in other words.

C. As there is no tangible evidence for the existence of a god and there is irrefutable proof for the existence of matter, I would therefore confidently suggest that the more reasonable theory is that matter rather than a god appeared out of nothing.

2) Intelligence:
A. Intelligence is as intelligence does. Intelligence is extremely variable and there is no correlation between intelligence levels and either religion or atheism. In simple terms there are clever theists and there are clever atheists, Just as there are not so clever theists and not so clever atheists.

B. Intelligence is not a prerequisite of common sense though. I would suggest that it is far more sensible to accept what we know to be real, Rather than accept the words of an archaic mythology.

3) Apostles:
Gullible people are easily lead and can be coerced into doing the most ridiculous things in the name of their supposed cause. Ultimately suicide.

Here are 5 examples of suicide cults:
a) Order of the Solar Temple.
b) Hara-kiri.
c) Heavens Gate.
d) The Branch Davidian
e) Peoples Temple.

4) Mount Rushmore:
Pro's main argument is their most stupid. We know that Gutzon Borglum designed and created the Mount Rushmore Monument.

5) Atheism is non-belief whereas Christianity is blind faith and in real terms both are states of mind that can be as easy or as hard as we care to make them.

6) As ever this sort of debate always relies upon the ridiculous cosmological tenet that states: Because something exists and we don't know why it exists then it must have been created by a god. But of course it is never explained how a god was created. All theories fall down at the point of something from nothing.
Debate Round No. 1
GraysonGg_116

Pro

First I'd like to thank my opponent for taking this debate and responding. I'd also like to clarify or revise some things:

1) There is no way to prove 100% that God exists, But out of Christianity or atheism, Christianity is the more intelligent belief because it's founded on a more probable explanation. And while you might argue that God has the exact same chance of existing as we do, It makes sense to have an intelligent designer behind this brilliant design. Many atheists choose to not believe in God because they can't fathom the concept that something could have no beginning and no end. This is due to the manmade illusion of time.

B. But matter appearing because of an intricate plan makes more sense than it appearing out of nowhere. Matter cannot think, But God certainly can (assuming he exists). In other words, It makes more sense to say God decided to create matter than to say matter decided to exist.

C. He sent his son Jesus down from earth who performed many miracles. Isn't that enough? People are so stubborn nowadays that they literally have to see something in person to believe it. But there is no tangible evidence for the existence of air, And although it's been proven, It wasn't be something we could see or feel.

2) Intelligence:

A. Maybe my choice of words by proclaiming there are no smart atheists is unwise. However, Essentially they are choosing to believe that the universe was randomly and so perfectly created without anyone behind it. So again, Christianity itself is a more wise belief than atheism.

B. Even with the belief that creation is random, It gets even harder to cling onto that belief when we look at ourselves. How you're even able to comprehend random shapes on the screen and read it in an opposing voice in your head right now is incredible. To go more into depth with this, I'll use a horrifying example of the Holocaust. We all know that's a terrible event and was an awful part of History. You would have to be a complete psychopath to say what happened in that time period in Germany wasn't wrong. So picture this: You walk up to someone and say, "I hate what Hilter did during the Holocaust, It was truly awful. " Now imagine you get this response: "I happen to think it wasn't that bad. " Your jaw would drop and you be stunned. But how does an atheist argue it's wrong? It isn't right morally? Well, What installed the moral compass inside of you? From the time you're really young, While you might choose to do wrong you can realize at least that you aren't doing what you're supposed to. Somehow there has to be a belief that anything that contradicts God, Who is essentially love, Is morally wrong. Without Christianity, Nothing is wrong or right. Everything just is. This reality is a terrible one with unwise and barbaric people roaming around doing whatever they please simply because there is no sense of a God-given conscience.

3) I see now how, While not probable, I cannot use this example because humanity proves at times to make no sense whatsoever. It's unlikely that they chose to not deny an untrue belief that would save them from death. . . But it's possible.

4) You missed my entire point. Of course it had a designer. That wasn't what I was trying to say. Let me provide another example: When you see a piece of art, Building, Or anything that was intelligently designed you know it has a designer. You don't have to approach an artist and make them prove that they made it because it was too intentional to be random. By default, You assume that any piece of art has a creator because the chances of it randomly existing are close to impossible. Now, Who sounds more intelligent in this scenario: Someone who claims the artwork had a creator who put a lot of thought into their design or someone who claims paints randomly fell and splashed all over the canvas randomly creating an intricate piece of art? Creation is no different, Except the creator is not human, And it's far more complex than a painting.

5) The belief that Christianity is "blind faith" is a common misconception. The entire bible was written, Creation is so intentional, And he came down in the form of a man. The only thing that keeps an atheist from converting is ultimately their emotions. It is seriously had to believe that there's a God when you can't interact with him or see him. In fact, It can feel childish for some, Sort of like an adult version of Santa Clause. However, Our emotions can be extremely deceiving and we can't always make decisions based off of them.

6) The same way a God can't be 100% proved, It cannot be 100% disproved either. So it again comes down to which belief is more intelligent or easy to hold on to. I like to compare beliefs to a game called Wits and Wagers. I don't know if you've ever played but I'll just clarify what that game is: Every round a question is presented. Every person gets a whiteboard with a dry erase marker. Everyone writes down their answers, Then puts their mini boards in the center of the table and the bidding begins. You each get little chips you can place on anyone's answer and whoever gets it correct earns themselves points as well as anyone who put their chips down on their answer. If you choose to ignorantly neglect any belief in God simply because of your deceptive emotions and no "tangible" evidence, Keep in mind that that's what you're putting all your chips on. Your belief is that there is nothing after life, And therefore you need not believe in any superior being simply because you have no proof for the short time on Earth compared to a possible eternity in Heaven. Consider my argument's points as well as what each belief is really expressing, And decide if that's really what you want to put all your chips on.
Sonofcharl

Con

As I commented earlier:
Belief, Like any other concept is created in the human brain.
Belief and other ideas are thought constructs we produce in response to external stimuli.
In simple terms, Gods were made up as an explanation for things that we didn't understand at the time.

Whether or not one thought process is easier than another is difficult to say. Maybe a brain scan or an E. E. G might shed some light on this contention. But as we are all conditioned differently, Maybe our responses would be similarly variable.

I would therefore suggest that the proposition as it is presented is somewhat untenable.
Debate Round No. 2
GraysonGg_116

Pro

GraysonGg_116 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
GraysonGg_116

Pro

GraysonGg_116 forfeited this round.
Sonofcharl

Con

Sonofcharl forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
75 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by timmyjames 3 years ago
timmyjames
Dude, You type insanely fast
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
1 Kings 22:23 "Now therefore, Behold, The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, And the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. "

See this is exactly to the letter why your god would ---never--- in a quadrillion years use text, Namely the bible, As a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible. The simple solution id=s for this god of yours is to talk to us. That"s evidence. Faith is not evidence as shown. You might want to scroll down for that with 4 quotes. You bible is most certainly not evidence as it written by who knows how many, With no possible way to trace its origins, With copies upon copies, And translations upon translations etc etc etc. Yeah your god would be really stupid to communicate in text when---he---can---simply---talk---to---us. Now that"s evidence.

OK I'm going to leave it at that so you can ponder on that has been thus composed within these posts.

Wow. I didn't realize that I composed so much. Its a lot of stuff. And I didn't even finish with what you stated. So sorry about that. I know shoot me with a trash compactor.

gtg please always tc and haveth thee fon. . . Ohhh hoopppsi sorry, Fun yeah that's it.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Um no the best explanation that you can come up with is to do away with this insanity of your completely immoral god as proven in your bible and appreciate the life you have here on earth in---which---you---don"t. You are so ridiculously worried about sinning. I"m not and neither are billions of others. We lived full and enriched lives whereas you are completely terrified of it.
"However, I don't know this for sure. " You are so right. And since you don"t then why bother with it considering the absolute fact that you have a 0% proof for nothing that your god even exists? "We"" no you. DO NOT say "we" Its you. Don"t include me or anyone else in your insanity and your complete gullibility and you absolute 100% pure denial. K?
"have to realize that God's plan is far beyond ours"" What god"s plan? What is it? Since you don"t know what it is, Why don"t you stop worrying about it and live a long life instead? "and that even the most intelligent person on the planet can't even begin to comprehend who God is and what he'd done. " And the question is, Is why would the stupidest person on this planet or any other "want" to?
"Similarly, God can barely even begin to explain himself to us. " Rubbish. Seems like your god did just fine when he flatly lied to his prophets. You are really digging yourself a hole here because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and you are flatly inventing excuses. You really should just take a step back and breathe. Normally I would squash you.

Ezekiel 20:25-26 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, And judgments whereby they should not live; 26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, In that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, That I might make them desolate, To the end that they might know that I am the LORD. "
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Really? Third we can throw the entire Adam and Eve thing because it has a supermassive hypocritical contradiction in it which is one of a good 1, 000 in your bible along with inconsistencies to make your bible unreadable.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. "

The contradiction"

GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. "
"This is one of the hardest topics to address, " You are correct because it cannot be addressed because of its 100% farce lunacy.
"As many Christians often wonder why we have to suffer from another person's mistake thousands and thousands of years ago. " Well that"s entirely up to you. There are verses that say "yes" There are verses that say "no". I don"t have them at hand right now. But you certainly can look them up if you wish.
https://infidels. Org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions. Html

And then you mention satan. This so-called whatever did not take place in any way, Shape or form until the NT. That"s yet another reason why your NT is far worse than the OT. Oh and btw, Your god created satan, So he must have known what evil was in order to have created it. If not, Then in no possible way was your god a god. However we as atheists do not believe in any of that garbage, Whereas you are tied directly into it. And the question is, Is why without a single shred of proof?
Sin exists for you because you believe in god. You must have a god in order to believe in sin. Now---since---your---are---so---heavy---handed---with---sin---prove---that---your---god---exists.

"The best explanation I can come up with is possibly God made this life full of troubles so that we could appreciate Heaven. "
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
To tell you the truth and no offense, I really can"t stand people like that. But due to the fact that its your first time and this has gone on for a very long time, Which is very unusual, As abnormally people make mistakes after mistakes very early on, I would normally end the debate right then and there.
You cannot think of ---anything--- that aligns perfectly with what atheists believe and what the bible says. Not one thing. Now that"s really p**sing me off. Why? Because each atheist is an individual who lives different paths and goes in different directions. There"s no books we follow, No set of instruction we are geared up to, No love songs to sing from around the world. The only thing that atheists have in common is the definition of what an atheist is. 1. A person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. And that"s it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Whereas you are forced into the complete immorality of your unproved god of your bible which is a superior ego god complex. That"s what your bible is entirely.
Here"s a very good video to help you discover what atheism and who atheists are. Its very short.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=7o5h0DdcyTA&t=264s - Reasons for accepting atheism
Btw, You do not, Not ever, Require nor need a god to tell you what is right or wrong. You, Personally have a very good moral compass and you do just fine without a so-called god.
OK let"s shut the door on Adam and Eve. First of all, They were children like you. But they were only given one chance, Just one. Is that a fair, Honest way to treat children especially when it is known that children require hundreds of chances to do something, Anything before they understand something, Anything? Secondly, The entire thing can be thrown to the wind because of a talking snake that eats dust.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
and I"d rather be stone cold dead on someone"s doormat than be so whimsical on a dirty well worn carpet.
"I cannot judge whether he will get to Heaven or not. " Well yeah you can. You must. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS and YOU KNOW BETTER. What happens if this person were to be jailed and then because your so-called christian laws were to forgive him and then he were to be set free because he were to have found your pathetic little savior and then he found your daughter and he were to decide to rape, Beat and torture her to death, Age 4, What then? Don"t tell me or anyone who is sane. Of course you judge. And to make matters the absolute worst? YOUR god knowingly created this monstrosity to commit his horrific acts.
Isaiah 45:12 "I have made the earth, And created man upon it: I, Even my hands, Have stretched out the heavens, And all their host have I commanded. "
There"s plenty more if you"d like?
"As Christians, We acknowledge that we are sinners and ask Jesus to forgive us. " F-O-R W-H-A-T? That"s the difference between you and me. I"m not a sinner. You are. I"ve done nothing wrong and neither have billions of others. You"ve done plenty wrong according to you. For starters, You believe.
"You know when you're doing right from wrong, " Not all the time. Its a learning process. But see, Since you believe as most so-called christians do, They think that they are impervious to doing wrong except when and if they offend their god for whatever reason. Thankfully we as atheists, We don"t have to worry about that. See we as atheists can say "I don"t know" to something when we don"t know something whereas to you so-called christians, Its an impossibility. Why? Dare your god ever be imperfect?

"God put a sense of morality in us. " Absolutely 100% not. I gave you the morality test and you answered "no" to all 6 questions. According to your god they are all "yes" questions. You just got caught in a contradiction and not knowing what you are talking about.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Don"t you think that this is rather odd when this kind of situation didn"t need to occur in the first place, That if god is a god he could have whisked away the jews before anything like this were to have ever occurred? Or is it that your god LOVES TO WATCH PAIN AND SUFFERING? Because that is the truth of it because that occurs time after time after time in both the OT and the NT and not once has there been peace anywhere for any length of time under your god"s rule. Well actually its not by any means a "rule" is it? No its not. Its a "belief". That"s all you have is a belief in your god and nothing more. Rightly. Justly. Thankfully.
"You keep bringing up an awful example of a man who raped and killed little girls and here's my answer to that: I DON'T KNOW. " Well at least you are saying that. You are the first, The very first and only first who believes in your god and christ that has said here on DDO "I don"t know". Indeed look at all the transcripts all the debates all the whatevers from so-called christians. There"s no "I don"t know". But see, I do know and have an answer for that.
* John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "
* John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, That he gave his only begotten Son, That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, But have everlasting life. "
Those two verses are point blank extremely and are very obvious. No matter what happens, Even if you do the absolute worst of the worst, If you manage to find christ, You will have eternal life. If you don"t find christ, Then you are eternally screwed and its hell for you. What an utterly stupid blackmailing bargaining chip. Of course I will ---never--- find christ who would do something so ignorant with threats like that and includes slavery and looks up to his so-called daddy who truly hates children, And again you are a child, No offense, (cont'd)
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
need to reread what you have just read until you get it. Btw, This and other concepts as to why your god would never use text as a form of communication are NOT mine by any means.
"And you'll find that everything God ever did that involved violence was either, A. To Protect what's right, " Or B. To fight against what is evil. " Well again, Why was there ANY VIOLENCE AT ALL?
"Here is just one example: The Israelites in Egypt:" There"s 0% proof that there were any Israelites in Egypt. So god plaguing them is only a superstitious story. Let"s continue with what you say" "But it was only ultimately to free his people"" HIS people. Why not some other people from the Brazilian rainforest that were suffering a lot more, By far and the Israelites had it just fine in which the was no proof that they were in Egypt because the builders of all the great monuments were treated well and they were---not---slaves. You might want to do some research on that.
Better yet" why not everybody be HIS people? Um no he chose the jews as HIS chosen people. Talk about racism and bigotry at its finest. Again Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5. "A. To Protect what's right, " Or B. To fight against what is evil. " Now you tell me what is evil to worship other gods? O get it, I really do - to knowingly cause deliberate genocides as your god knowingly did according to your hateful evil bible. Sure.
"from the awful conditions they were put in. " Well your god put them there. Oh I get it, So according to you, Your god is not i control of everything? He is not in charge of everything, Does not know everything, Is not all knowing and is not all powerful, Is most certainly not omnipotent, And is not perfect. That"s according to you. Because if not true then this and these situations would not occur. However according to your bible they did occur. Let"s say that they did occur" so how did they get started? And once started POOF your god is there to rescue them.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Very befitting of a supreme deity - right? Thus showing that this god of yours is thus imperfect. And since this god of yours is imperfect, Then "why believe"? Don"t hand me the jesus nonsense goop, This is why believe in god?
So why wasn"t there, Since your god"s inception ---any--- kind of peace happening, Anywhere, For any length of time? No. Its only evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy. Just what man needs and requires especially on the battlefields alone with at least 1 billion dead all in the supposed "good" name of god.

"Second of all, I've tried to read as much of the Bible I can to deepen my relationship with God, " Well you do realize that your bible, Your god would never be stupid enough to use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible - correct? There are at least 100 reasons why. Here"s just a couple of them" There are translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead languages upon dead languages that have died off with a 0% chance of chasing any text back to the original in which does not exist in the first place. So you have no idea if you are interpreting correctly or not. Now suppose that there is an original? So what? That makes matters even worse because who is going to interpret that version to make it exactly correct with its translation to get the exact message across so EVERYBODY gets it correct in which is a true 100% impossibility through the translation barrier alone? Now your god, If even remotely intelligent, In which he is clearly 100% not, And once again you have to prove he even exists, Would have easily foreseen though all of these fatal errors and never chosen text as a form of communication. If you do not see this within what has just been communicated to you and you still think that your god would have chosen text, Then you haven"t even remotely comprehended what you have just read and you (con't)
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Your christ had it super mega easy. Now here"s a question for you in which I 100% know that you will avoid at all costs because for you there is no answer. What can a child possibly learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing" you"ve answered correctly. Now your god deliberately creates and created man to horrifically suffer. That is IF and only IF you believe in him. Thankfully atheists don"t.
"And all we have to do is accept it. That's it. " Do you know EXACTLY TO THE LETTER WHAT THAT IS? Its called "gullibility" on the wow factor. Its called ---never--- doing any research, In which point blank obvious you haven"t done.
"People believe what they have trained themselves to believe all the time. Like if its if my abusive other will not hurt me anymore and they ignore the evidence to the contrary. " Clare Wuellner

"Why then would they be sad when someone dies? If you truly believed" Also why do we have the criminal justice system? If you truly believed we wouldn"t need that because everything is going to get sorted out in the end. " Clare Wuellner
"Because we are all equal and we all sin. " No "we" all don"t. In order to sin a god must exist. Since you have not proven your god, Then no one has sinned. Simple. AND sinning was brought up in the NT as being part of everyday living. Sinning was not brought up in everyday living in the OT. So please do go back and reread both books of your bible. So ab-so-lu-te-ly there is far worse morality in the NT than there is in the OT.
Regardless, Let"s look at it from a different point of view" why is there any immorality at all? See, What you don"t get and or understand, And as the matter of fact is I have yet to come across ---any--- so-called christian and that includes you, Not one who believes that their god believes in peace, Harmony, Love, Care, Kindness, Etc etc etc.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.