The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Smug_Tomato
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Colin Kaepernick Should Definitely Be Considered An American Hero

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 519 times Debate No: 120812
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

Pro

The last opponent that tried to debate this topic failed miserably because he couldn't present a solid case. Colin Kaepernick is definitely a modern-day hero because he stood up against injustice. Though he was clearly black balled by the NFL, He was still able to uncover how these people fraudulently conduct business. Kaepernick fully exposed how hypocritical America truly is as a nation.

Anyone with common sense know that the protest was about police brutality. The media tried to change the narrative to something else which exposes how a certain group of people don't have a problem with innocent people being killed. Since you had so much to say in the comment section, Here is your chance to redeem yourself from the utter foolishness that you've been spewing.
Smug_Tomato

Con

Say less.

I do not think that Colin Kaepernick should be considered an American Hero for these reasons:
He did not sacrifice his job
He was not blackballed

I propose that the reason Kaepernick is no longer in the league is not solely due to his protests, But rather, A combination of mediocre play and the fact that his actions were extremely divisive and caused a media firestorm that put not only him, But his team at the center of attention.

I'll expand on this in the next round, As well as rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

You said that "Kaep didn't sacrifice his job and that he wasn't blackballed. " Do know how ridiculous you actually sound? I want to ask you this question. Did Kaepernick win his case against the NFL? Are you aware that this particular case was about (Collusion)? Are you aware that blackballing is a form of collusion? Let's see what collusion actually mean?

Collusion definition from Merriam-Webster Dictionary: A secret or illegal cooperation or a conspiracy, Especially in order to cheat or deceive.
Collusion definition from Wikipedia: A secret agreement between two or more parties to limit competition by deceiving, Misleading or defrauding to obtain an objective.

Fast-forward to 2019: Colin Kaepernick & Eric Reid settle their (Collusion Case) against the NFL. Both parties agreed to settle after finding out that Kaep's attorney had embarrassing evidence on NFL team owners that would have went public. Mike Freeman, An NFL insider, Provided the damaging evidence against NFL team owners. Https://www. Businessinsider. Com/colin-kaepernick-nfl-embarrassing-evidence-collusion-settlement-2019-2

Blackballed definition: To vote against, To exclude socially or to reject. . . So. . . Now that we know that blackballing is a form of collusion, And Kaep's attorney received damaging evidence against the NFL. . . "". . Need I say more?
Smug_Tomato

Con

First I'll expand on my two main points, Then move on to rebuttals.

>He did not sacrifice his job
Definition of sacrifice - an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.
In this case, Kaepernick supposedly gave up his job in the NFL to aid the fight against police brutality in the US. I have to disagree with this. Kaepernick did more to intentionally lose his job than the owners did to keep him out of the league. There were two instances in which Kaepernick had job offers lined up and caused himself due to his own actions or those close to him.
The first was with the Baltimore Ravens. They were heavily considering signing him, And were in the process of putting together a deal for him to come play in Baltimore until, According to Ray Lewis, Kaepernick's girlfriend put out a racial tweet involving Ray Lewis and the former Ravens' owner Art Modell. Now you could say that Kaep shouldn't be held accountable for his girlfriend's actions, But at the same time, Kaepernick never came out and apologized for it. A similar case happened to another player, Brent Grimes. His girlfriend in this case was simply critical of the ownership of some of the teams Grimes played on, And voiced her opinions all over twitter or wherever was available. This ultimately cost Grimes a job in the NFL. Unfortunately, Team are extremely strict about what players (and those around them) say off the field, And if you or someone close to you says something that may cause strife within the team or franchise, They have no time for you.
The second case was actually a much better circumstance for Kaepernick than the first. In this case, The Dolphins were thought to be a perfect landing spot for Colin Kaepernick, After their quarterback Ryan Tannehill went down prior to the preseason with an ACL tear. This opened the door for Kaepernick to find not only a new team, But a starting job in the NFL once again as well. The Dolphins were heavily considering the possibility of this until photos surfaced of Kaepernick wearing a t-shirt expressing support of Fidel Castro. Now whatever your opinions are of Castro, I do not really care, But in Miami, He is extremely unpopular, To say the least. The Dolphins could not sign him, As they have a large Cuban fanbase and many of those fans would be vehemently against the idea of signing somebody the supports Castro. Kaepernick should have known this, Yet he still went out of his way to do something that would kill his chances of getting a job in the NFL.
In both of these cases, He had job opportunities lined up for him, And through some way or another, He caused himself a chance at a job. Teams started to catch on to the fact that he clearly wasn't invested in playing football anymore, And seemed more worried about making a statement and protesting than anything else. Had Kaepernick quietly continued his protest while trying to get signed, He likely would have landed a job well before the start of the 2017 season. He didn't, And when you couple this with the fact that his value had dropped tremendously in two seasons, It only makes sense that teams would pass on him for safer, More reliable players that wouldn't cause a circus to come to practice everyday.

I'm pretty much out of space so I'll continue this in the next round.

Sources are in the comments.
Debate Round No. 2

Pro

My opponent just said that Kaepernick didn't sacrifice his job, And that the definition of sacrifice is an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.

Here' s exactly why you made absolutely no sense. . . Wouldn't someone's life be considered more valuable than a job? Could you honestly say that the sport of football is regarded as more worthy or more important than someone who got murdered for no reason?

The Baltimore Ravens & Ray Lewis? That was nothing more than speculation & here is why. . .
Strike #1: Kaep wouldn't be starting over Joe Flacco during this time.
Strike #2: If Flacco would've got injured, Do you honestly think that Kaep would've took over the offense especially when the team already has backup QBs?
Strike #3: Backup QBs are already familiar with the playbook. If you knew anything about Football, Then you'd understand how difficult it is to transition a new QB into a new system.
Strike#4: I guess we're now putting our faith in what Ray Lewis said despite his sketchy history on & off the field.

The Dolphins, Ravens & R. Lewis was nothing more than speculation. You may want study what a "red herring" is and how it's used to take the focus away from a topic. Despite what you said about Castro, Miami's fans, Girlfriends & a t-shirt, Kaepernick's attorney possessed damaging evidence on these NFL team owners, Which is why they settled out of court & put a (gag order) in place. That particular evidence in a court of law totally destroys anything you say.

In conclusion, You rambled about unwanted attention & strict codes of conduct that causes strife within an organization. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Robert Kraft & his devious affairs with underage girls at massage parlors. Isn't that unwanted attention? Isn't Kraft causing strife within his organization? Don't you think that Kraft should lose his ownership of the Patriot's the same way Kaepernick lost his job as an NFL player? The funny thing about Kraft's situation is that he was one of team owners who participated in the collusion and that speaks volumes.
Smug_Tomato

Con

Let's get one important thing out of the way;
Ray Lewis' statement wasn't speculation, He was quoted, And this is backed up by CBS and ESPN.
There are also countless articles detailing why the Dolphins decided not to sign Kaep and instead went with Jay Cutler. I had sources but DDO kind of sucks and won't allow me to include them in my argument. This still dismisses any notion that my arguments were mere 'speculation. '

Now with that out of the way, Let's get to your first point about the Ravens.
You say that Kaepernick wouldn't have been starting over Joe Flacco, Which is true, But why exactly does that matter? The goal here is for him to have a job in the NFL, And being a backup QB would mean that he has a job in the NFL. Whether or not he's starting is irrelevant.
The Ravens backup QBs at that point were terrible, So bringing in Kaepernick was likely a better alternative than trying to play whoever they had (I think it was Ryan Mallet). I'm aware that learning a playbook is difficult, But at the end of the day, Kaerpernick is simply trying to find a job. If he can't learn a playbook to even serve as a backup, Then he shouldn't be in the NFL to begin with. Keep in mind, That same season, Jimmy Garoppolo, A QB with little playing time as a starter, Came in and won 5 straight games under a new offense in San Francisco. If a QB with 1 and half games of experience can do it, I think a player like Colin Kaepernick can as well.
Ray Lewis is a Hall of Fame LB and very close with the higher ups in the Ravens' organization, So, I'd say that he's a very credible source for information regarding the Ravens' decisions.

On to the settlement between Kaep and the NFL, I think there's more to it than what Kaep's lawyer is saying. If all the owners were colluding against Kaep, Steve Biscotti must not have gotten the message, Since his team was apparently very close to offering him a deal. The NFL likely felt that it was better to simply drop the entire a case and get Kaep to be quiet, Rather than continue fighting him. They were already getting tons of bad press as it was, And this case was hurting their image. It was easier to settle out of court, Rather than continue a fight that wasn't going to benefit them in any way. Kaep's lawyer isn't very reliable, Either, Considering he has contradicted himself and stated that teams (such as the Patriots and Panthers) are still inquiring about signing Kaep to a contract. If there was collusion, No team would be giving him this kind of information, Since they don't want him in the league.
As for Kraft, Like I said in the comments, The NFL has a flawed system based on production on the field. They don't care about what you do off the field as long as you produce on it. Robert Kraft took a team that was flirting with bankruptsy and a possible move to St. Louis and turned them into arguably the greatest dynasty in all of sports. In the same way Ray Lewis was a game changing LB that struck fear into his opponents. In the same way Michael Vick was a dual-threat talent that couldn't be ignored. In the same way Tyreek Hill is lightning in a bottle. I could go on for days. My point is, Kaepernick lacked the talent to keep a job while causing a ruckus. He was coming off of a dismal 2-14 campaign that saw him get benched for Blaine Gabbert in the middle of the season. His stats might have been decent, But he simply wasn't worth his baggage, Hence why he ultimately lost his job.
The thing is, There are other players that are just as outspoken-- if not moreso-- than Kaepernick that still have jobs in the league today, Such as Michael Bennett. Bennett actually came out and accused a police officer of assaulting him not too long ago, As well as continuing his staunch protest of the anthem. He was recently traded to the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots, After playing a season for the former SB Champion Eagles. Despite his protests, Great teams still clearly want him on their rosters. Why is that?
Debate Round No. 3

Pro

My opponent is again changing her stance on previous comments that she has made in a separate debate's comment section. All of the people that you're (now) giving credit to are the same people that you threw under the bus in a previous debate. Did you not do that? The great thing about this platform is that everything you say is documented & can be viewed by anyone. Another great this about this platform is that I've only participated in a hand full of debates so your previous comments can & will be exposed.

The only thing you're doing is asking hypothetical questions & giving (If this would've happened) type of statements. The fact of the matter is that 31 NFL teams wouldn't give this man a chance because he peacefully protested. So, What are the chances that 31 teams would all of a sudden decide to act like Kaep didn't even exist? Here's where your weak, Prejudice argument completely breaks down. . .
I'll ask you this question; wasn't Jay Cutler retired when Miami offered him the job in Miami? So. . . You mean to tell me that a washed-up QB like Jay Cutler who's retired got the job over a QB who's in good physical shape and has a history of at least getting to the Super Bowl. I'm pretty sure Cutler wasn't in the best of conditioning. . . Since he was (retired. )

Any logical person will ask him/herself this one question. . . How could 31 teams IRONICALLY decide to not sign this man? . . . Here's your next contradiction. You said that "Jimmy Garoppolo came in & won 5 straight games with little experience. " You followed by saying that "a player like Kaep can do it as well. ". . . If this is the case in which It's Completely True, Then why wasn't Kaep on the field & there's 30+ teams available? Hmmm.

Everyone knows that R. Lewis is inconsistent in what he says & does. Remember when Shannon Sharp exposed him on live tv for taking a knee when Lewis proclaimed that it was extremely disrespectful to take a knee just a week prior?

In conclusion, I'll end this debate by exposing my opponent's most atrocious statement. You just said that "THE NFL DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO OFF THE FIELD AS LONG AS YOU PRODUCE ON IT. " So tell me, What did Michael Vick do on the field that caused him to lose his job & go to prison? Explain to me why Ray Rice hasn't taken a snap since that elevator incident? What did Kareem Hunt do on the field that caused the Chiefs to fire and trade him? I rest my case.
Smug_Tomato

Con

And here's a case where someone misread an argument. I didn't change my stance on anything. I made the exact same argument. All of those players have committed some kind of notable crime, But all are still in the league due to their talent, Which the league values. Pro either didn't understand this, Or tried to intentionally misunderstand this to make an argument.

31 other teams didn't offer him a job because they either already had a QB or decided that they were going to pursue one in next year's draft. That's how football works. A majority of NFL teams already have an established starting QB and solid backup options, So logically, They aren't going to pursue another QB unless surprise circumstances arise. They pick up players based on need. You yourself said that Kaep couldn't join a team because they already had backup QBs and a starter, And Kaep is apparently incapable of learning a new playbook. If that was the case, No team is going to bother signing him. Ultimately, I provided two real cases of teams that could have needed him (Baltimore and Miami) and showed why he himself ruined his chance at getting either job.
The Dolphins signed Jay Cutler because, As I stated earlier, Kaep showed support of Fidel Castro, Someone who is extremely unpopular in Miami. Had Kaep not done this, It was more than likely that he would have gotten signed.

Michael Vick committed crime that sent him prison, And shortly after he was released, He was picked up by an NFL team, Where he would go on to play for 7 more seasons.
Rice's incident was so heinous that teams basically couldn't touch him. On top of that, He was playing a position (RB) that had completely diminished in value. There was no way he was going to find a job again, As his case was completely unjustified, And the NFL dropped the ball on his punishment. To be fair, This is worthy of a debate in and of itself, Since a lot of things were handled quite poorly.
Kareem Hunt was released because he lied to the team about his involvement. And he was picked up by the Browns shortly after, Where he will actually play next season, So your point is invalid.
In the 3 cases you brought up, 2 of the players ended up finding jobs again anyway, So what are you saying, That they should have never lost their first job? That doesn't seem too bad if you can quickly find a new one and make similar money in the end anyway. Also, I like how you just ignored my point about Michael Bennett still having a job despite protesting just as much as Kaep.

Alas, We are at the end. A little too short if you ask me, But no matter. Conclusion time!
Colin Kaepernick was not worth his baggage. The reason 31 other teams decided not to sign him is because either
a) They didn't need him
b) They didn't want a media frenzy when they did sign him
While Kaep might be popular with players and the media, He is immensely unpopular with fans, And in a league that is struggling to fill up stadiums and bring in viewers, Any chance at a possible decrease in viewership is a chance that teams would rather not take, Especially for a player that doesn't produce on the field. Kaep was coming off of a 2-14 season where he was benched for Blaine Gabbert. He was a below-average QB, And like most below-average QBs, It was unlikely he was going to find an immediate starting job anywhere. No team is going to bother signing a backup QB that brings a circus to town. The league clearly had no problem with protests, Considering they allowed and still allow players to protest the anthem. Teams clearly have no issue with this either, Since guys like Michael Bennett are continuing to find jobs on very good teams.

What does this mean? Simply put, Kaepernick wasn't blackballed, And didn't sacrifice his job in the NFL. He lost his job due to poor play and having too much baggage. This means that he wasn't a hero. He stirred up drama and created a frenzy that ended up making him more money than if he continued playing. Good deal, Imo.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
Actually in 2017 neither team had a good backup option. The Ravens had Ryan Mallet who had little if any NFL experience (he was a backup in New England up until that point) and the Dolphins had Matt Moore who was serviceable, But not the guy that they wanted, Especially considering the fact that he was going to have to play again that season after Tannehill was sidelined with an ACL tear. Those were both prime opportunities for Kaepernick to find work.

Actually, The reason the Ravens were in the mix was due to the fact that Joe Flacco was sidelined with a hip injury and there were questions about whether or not he'd be available week one. He ended up playing, But this was enough to prompt them to solve this problem, Which they did in the 2018 Draft when they took Lamar Jackson #32 overall.
Miami, On the other hand, Let Jay Cutler sling it for a year before giving the reigns back to Tannehill, Who did nothing. So they've traded him. Seeing their QB room right now, I think Kaepernick would have a pretty good shot at a job, But considering how unpopular he is, I highly doubt he'll find employment there.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
What tears down your QB argument is that Baltimore and Miami already had decent QBs on the roster if their starting QB got injured. This proves that Baltimore and Miami never really considered him in the first place, Which is (speculation). Wasn't Lamar Jackson Drafted? As I stated, The NFL owners didn't want to continue with court preceding because that evidence, Leaked emails & phone conversations, Would have exposed them.

Thank for debating with me.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
Fun debate. Thank you for the opportunity.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
"Backup QBs are already familiar with the playbook. If you knew anything about Football, Then you'd understand how difficult it is to transition a new QB into a new system. "
This comment really kills me because you're basically saying Kaepernick is too stupid to play for a team LMFAO!

If Lamar Jackson can run that offense, Kaepernick better be able to or my point is proven that he doesn't deserve a job.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
This 4000 character count really limits me, But I guess I have to learn to be more concise.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
No, I had two articles that I referenced but unfortunately the site doesn't allow links. I'll try something in my next argument and if it doesn't work oh well. But trust me, I have sources.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
So, Now we're making excuses? In other words, You can't post your "sources" because there are no legitimate sources to begin with.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
Apparently I can't post my sources anywhere. . .

Also, Cost* not "caused"
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
@Dr. Franklin I apologize man, I accidentally responded to the wrong comment. That particular comment was meant for a different debate. . . My bad.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I never said that you didn't present a solid case. I just said that you have your reasons and that I can respect your opinions.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.