The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ChaelD
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Denominations ARE the identity of 1Timothy 4:1

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,633 times Debate No: 111177
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (48)
Votes (0)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

RULES:
1. 1st round acceptance?
2. Biblical argument PROVING Denominations ARE IDENTIFIED as 1 Timothy 4:1 or Biblical argument proving they are "NOT"
3. Rebuttals.
4. Should BE Bible knowledgeable
5. Should at least BE able to give account for Reason for Belief, beyond mere opinion(s)
6. Obviously Should BELONG to a denomination. And Believe and be able to BACK their belief, beyond hearsay.

Any Denominational (c)hristian is acceptable.
ChaelD

Con

Truth be told, there ARE some denominations that "abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits...", but to say that a denomination is a manifestation of 1 Timothy 4:1 is to throw a whole lot of true believers into the general mixing pot of the world. I am an Evangelical Christian who goes to a community church. I believe that in order for someone to be a Christian they must believe in Jesus as God's Son wholeheartedly ("If you believe with all your heart, you may [be baptized]. The eunuch answered, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'"Acts 8:37 NIV ), regardless of a denomination. There are two types of Christian Beliefs: the Disputable and the Undisputable. There are things set in stone that each and every born again Christian believes, like "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." On the other hand, there are values that need to be set aside for the sake of unity, like whether the Pope is the head of the Church or whether each person is responsible for himself. Like Christian Singer Mandisa says in her new song, "We're more beautiful when we come together." When we squabble about these small issues (which are by no means "abandoning the faith"), it gives the Lost a picture of us that is full of fighting over moot topics. If Catholic chooses to believe that the Pope is the closest man to God, I merely agree to disagree, and we unite on our common ground so we can do the most important thing of all: bring the unsaved to Christ.
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Denominations ARE the identity of 1Timothy 4:1

Greetings and Welcome … I shall address your comments at the end, that the debate may begin promptly!

THE CHARGE 1 Timothy 4:1-2

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- God unsanctioned use of external texts and materials that DIRECTLY VIOLATES scripture by presuming to INTERPRET and DEFINE Holy Scripture, leading to the confusion of the laity, causing massive departure from the faith teaching things NOT TAUGHT in the Holy Word!

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- Stealing FROM GOD by withholding a TENTH for TITHES

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of today- More than 2 denominations, Judaism and The WAY

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- NO NAMED IDENTITY or denomination exists in scripture.

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- 33,000 or 43,000 worship differences and traditions. ALL HUMAN MADE, without direct authority of Scripture.

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- ACCUSATIONS between the denominations inferring KNOWLEDGE that OTHER denominations are not Christians because they do not follow their own personal denominations beliefs.

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- ACCUSATION that THERE IS NO TRINITY!

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of today- That THEY CAN PERSONALLY INTERPRET SCRIPTURE- even though it is EXPRESSLY STATED within scripture that NONE of the scripture (prophecy) is of PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF THE PROPHET!

DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- MASSIVE BIBLICAL ILLITERACY IN EVERY DENOMINATION. Additional evidence may be perused on this BOARDS as 95 to 98 percent of professing Believers ON this debate board … are INCAPABLE of using Scripture, indeed demonstrating only a rudimentary beginning, babe in Christ knowledge, spreading hypocrisy and outright lies of denominations, rather than using scriptures at all?

Direct EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- To the last man EXCLUSIVELY USES THE TERM- “I BELIEVE” and NOT GOD STATES! Fulfilling the prophecy of Paul-

Hebrews 5:11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. 12Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food! 13Everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness.…

Scriptures UNDER DIRECT VIOLATION BY THE CHURCHES OF TODAY;

Violation- 2 Timothy 1:13 Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus

Violation- 2 Timothy3:13 while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed, since you know from whom you learned them. 15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.…

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it was taught, so that by sound teaching he will be able to encourage others and refute those who contradict this message.

Violation- 2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that you have heard me say among many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be qualified to teach others as well.

Violation- Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed.

Violation- Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you shall be no priest to me: because you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.

Violation- Mark 7:13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Violation- Proverbs 30:6, Isaiah 55:8, Matthew 22:29, Timothy 3:16

Violation: 2 Peter 2:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”

Violation Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Violation- Isaiah 54:13 "All your sons will be taught of the LORD; And the well-being of your sons will be great.

Violation- John 6:45 , 1 John 2:27, 1 Thessalonians 4:9 , Philippians 3:15

Violation- Malachi 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Violation- Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

Violation-Psalm 81:11 "But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

Violation-Isaiah 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks, "Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Violation- Isaiah 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

Violation Deuteronomy 4:2,Violation- Deuteronomy 12:32,Violation-Psalm 36:4,

Undeniable evidence of Guilt. Existence of MORE than a SINGLE Christian entity Governed by God Spirit ALONE!

Evidence … in the 1st Century there was Judaism, and The WAY’’

Today?

https://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com...

God is disappointed in US if there were 3. See how this is true? Only one WAY? Gods WAY? The other is Judaism, there IS NO disputing this! So beyond 2, we have BETRAYED the Savior of the World, and Creator of the universe. IF you cannot see this VEEEEERY simple truth, well? SIGH, your REALLY in trouble! No matter, it is what it is.

Con states "Truth be told, there ARE some denominations that "abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits...", but to say that a denomination is a manifestation of 1 Timothy 4:1 is to throw a whole lot of true believers into the general mixing pot of the world.”

Pro response "How MANY Denominations ARE IN THE SCRIPTURE BY NAME?"

Proof … your WRONG at the onset! ALL denominations are contrary to The Holy Word as NONE are sanctioned by God Himself. And to infer in the absence of specific scripture IS adding to the WORD, whether YOU believe it or not! But you know, That IS the PROBLEM isn’t it? To MUCH of US in religion and not enough GOD! Be honest, you haven’t DIED to yourself, even YOU still believe only what YOU want to? Your “NOT” a disciple? Not my charge- CHRIST CHARGE” Neither are ALL the denominations … know HOW to tell?

EASY-43,000 reasons or 33,000 whichever ... see?

Scripture STATES: Matthew 16:24

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Mark 8:34

Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Luke 9:23

Then Jesus said to all of them, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Luke 14:27

And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

SEE? NOT His Disciple, from the Man Himself. Take it up with HIM? See to DENY self means, to be like the people in the Cemetery. Do you know I can read them the News every day, Tell them what the Government is doing, Tell them the Crime States, Tell them of Global chaos, and you know what their opinions would be? NOTHING, cause they HAVE NO OPINION on anything at all … Know why? CAUSE THEIR DEAD, JUST LIKE YOU are supposed to be, remember?

Galatians 2:19 For through the Law I died to the Law so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Romans 6:10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires.…

Romans 6:6

We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Tell me? HOW can you profess Crucified with Christ, RAISED in Him, and yet STILL have your OWN BELIEF, Your OWN rights, Your OWN thoughts? Your OWN WAY? Indeed how can YOU use sentences that BEGIN “I BELIEVE!”

DOES WHAT YOU BELIEVE really what counts? Or is Gods BELIEF what YOU BELIEVE? Can you be so naïve to BELIEVE that YOUR BELIEF IS Gods Belief?

Thus all your WORDS? What use are they? How do they SAVE a soul? DO they save a soul … or is it JUST NOISE, without purpose, without direction, neither blesses nor curses, merely wasted breath, leading every conceivable way EXCEPT to Christ? IF it does not Lead to Christ, it need NOT BE SAID … does it?

ChaelD

Con

Wow! That was quite a lot, but impressive, too! Some arguments that you made are that the Denominations are never mentioned in the Bible. Obviously, God's Word never talked about Baptists, Pentacostals, or Catholics by name, but in 1 Corinthians 1:12, Paul describes some different "groups" of Christians: "One of you says, 'I follow Paul'; another, 'I follow Apollos'; another, 'I follow Cephas'; still another, 'I follow Christ.'" Though each of these groups of Christians chose to have a different leader, Paul recognizes that they are still believers. He tries to tell them that Christ is number 1, and they shouldn't let such trivial matters divide them. Earlier on, in Romans 14, Paul gives another example of what could be called "denominations": "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables... One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, does so to the Lord." What Paul is trying to get across is that it isn't HOW a person worships that matters; it is WHO they worship. It doesn't matter if you are a Seventh Day Adventist or an Episcopilian; a Catholic or a Southern Baptist. What matters is that you worship JESUS CHRIST as you Lord and Savior. You also mentioned the "massive biblical illiteracy", the lack of tithing, and the betrayal of the Trinity. The first two should be attributed to the individual person, while the last one can only describe a limited amount of modern Denominations. One last point, though fairly theorizing, is to compare Christianity to America. There is only one America, just as there is only one body of Christ. There is only one Commander-in-Chief of America, just as there is only one Christ. America is divided into many different states, each with its own individuality and culture, just like Christianity is divided into many (probably TOO many) denominations, each with its own individuality. Yet every citizen in every state is an American, just like every believer in every denomination is a Christian.
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I desire to keep HUMAN INTERPRETATION AND OPINION from this debate please, it IS THE REASON, we find ourselves here today isn't it?

For example you express a total humanistic opinion and WRONG viewpoint right out of tthe gate, don't you?

Neither Paul, Apollo nor Cephas TAUGHT a defferent belief did they? You knew this, yet your statement could very easily infer that they DID, because you INFER, it in support of Denominations which you well KNOW teach, nontrinitarianism, No Tithe requirement, Human Biblical interpretation ... etc.

Relax. I know you do not mean to mislead new Believers .... nevertheless, you SEE just how FAST humanisim can easily lead astray a immature believer with a poorly thoughtout and human point of view? We as Believers are to VIEW the World and all its functions from a purely BIBLICAL, and Spiritual, Godly viewpoint! That NONE of the Denominations DO THIS is why they, in the larger part ARE spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:15

"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames."

How then can we be SURE that this is their fate? one of no maturity might ask? Are you "NOT" interpreting scripture by MAKING SUCH a connection?

Ah, you see the young is not so foolish as we might think? The HUMAN within them is rife with the demons of doubt ever prodding and needling them to question and doubt Believers. No matter we all GROW out of that sort of thing IF we remain faithful to the scripture. But as to the question? Extremely valid.

First as believers try to utilize scripture as intended, and allow the HOLY SPIRIT to devulge the MEANING within the scripture, rather than TELLING them its meaning. God s the one who should guide them in all matters of meanings. We can merely point them to God for clarification. That WE KNOW a Thing is granted by God alone.

But we CAN help them to view the scriptures from a reality standpoint. For example, the question: 1 Corinthians 3:15

"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames."

How then can we be SURE that this is their fate? Are you "NOT" interpreting scripture by MAKING SUCH a connection?

let us investigate this question?
1. WE HAVE ESTABLISHED by direct charge and scripture violation;

that the Denominations teach contrary to BIBLE?
that They fit well within

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.

and Hosea 4:6 expressly states "NO PRIESTHOOD" for these?


The question then becomes quite plain doesn't it?

IF they teach contrary to Gods word- will their works SURVIVE the cleansing FIRE of God?

and what DOES the SCRIPTURE ACTUALLY SAY regarding those whose woks DO NOT SURVIVE the cleansing FIRE?

""If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames."

At this point the scripture instruction is given ... allow them to go to God and allow God to SHOW them the correct answer ... even though by a mere and BRIEF moment of contemplation the TRUTH can be easily seen AND understood. BUT try NOT to TELL them what to believe but rather cultivate their thinking processes towards a more Godly view, rather than human opinion.

God certainly see's clearer than we do, and HE basis His views on rightness, not emotions.

The rest of your views remain well within the Humanistic VIEW rather than the Godly view. Much like a brother said in the comments section that;

"I profess to be a non-denominational Christian, I've never had the opportunity to talk with a person of the Jewish faith. I don't believe in arguing and attacking people because of differing views.

I'm here to learn and gather different perspectives in order to have a better understanding of people's beliefs. Not trying to convert anyone"

to which I responded quote "What this ACTUALLY says ... I don't CARE that YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. I won't stop you, because that means I have to be confrontational, by telling YOU the TRUTH. So I am going to take the cowards way out ... I'm saved and that's all that counts.

" I don't believe " Well he stated THAT RIGHT!"

You as a Believer HAVE NOT THE AUTHROITY NOR RIGHT to take such a position where the Lords WORD is concerned! YOU do as your TOLD or you do not as your told, You ARE OBEDIENT TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, or you are "NOT" obedient to the Lord your God!

There IS NO MIDDLE GROUND!

IF you choose to ALLOW GODS WORD to be taught CONTRARY to the instructions of God ... YOU TO reap the consequence of your choice? The Apostles DIED in defense of the Word, your statement indicates you care less HOW so called Christians TREAT Gods word.


That this DOESN'T bother you, is disturbing ... however not my concern, other than God has borne witness to your defiance towards Him, and His instructions TO YOU. But as I have plainly stated to all ... your actions, YOUR consequences. I can only SHOW you that you are wrong in accordance with what God says. That YOU cannot show that YOU ARE CORRECT in the same matter, without resorting to innuendo and ADDING by INFERRENCE to the Word of God, which is expressly forbidden, in accordance with Deuteronomy 4:2

"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."


Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.


1 Peter 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

The Charge:Denominations ARE the identity of 1Timothy 4:1 stands as FACT, in accordance with the Scriptures as provided from the Holy Word itself, without inference nor innuendo as they are plainly stated.


bond·serv·ant
noun
noun: bondservant; plural noun: bondservants; noun: bond-servant; plural noun: bond-servants
  1. a person bound in service without wages.
    • a slave or serf.

The question then is one really of TRUTH OR LIE isn't it?

I say, and affirm that I am a Bonservant of Christ, that I shall do according to Gods word, all that He requires, asks or emands, that I will bear true faith and alliegence to Him, in ever situation corcumstance good or Bad, till he come or Death take me home. I shall stand for His will, His way, forsaking my own thoughts, beliefs, and wants for HIS will, alone! I shall stand against those who discredit God, and shall inform them of their errors as required by God, with the FULL understanding that the consequences are solely upon THEM and the consequences to mea rae only as my actions FAIL to point out in due faith their errors as required and shown by Paul in the matter of the incestuous relationship within the church spoken of in 1 Corinthians 5:5

"deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus."

To those who profess the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior and Lord. YOU ARE a Bondservant of Christ by word and Deed, or you are a liar and you do not, it is not for ME to declare the truth among you, That IS the purview of God. I merely point out that HE IS MAKING THOSE JUDGEMENTS RIGHT NOW ... as we can all see plainly that Christ IS closer to coming than He has ever been before.

As a fellow Believer and a Brother, I give you fair and honest warning to "CHOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE" God or YOU!

As there WAS no defense provided by scripture, merely misunderstanding brought about by human errors, The Charges against the denominations Stand. That they clearly are in violation of Bondservant status, I think is plain, that they teach a gospel not taught by Apostle, Christ nor prophet is equally plain. That they REMAIN saved by the FREE GIFT by the mercies of God is not of any Doubt, merely the question remains to which I draw your attention today:

1 Corinthians 3:15

"yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

does any one KNOW what this might mean?
and
DON'T YOU THINK you should start LOOKING to SEE what it means, seeing as it LIKELY speaks of YOU?

Next point; off topic but not so OFF that it doesn't beg asking?

THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT demonstrate nor SHOW that one (ONCE in Heaven) CAN EARN REWARDS.
it DOES however state:

Matthew 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…


Luke 18:22 On hearing this, Jesus told him, "You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me."


1 Timothy 6:19 treasuring up for themselves a firm foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

To BE a Priest and King in Heaven as discussed in revelation 3:21, or to BE a people of God with SOME REWARD as discribed in 1 Corinthians 3:14, BUT ... to be one who HAS NOTHING BUT SALVATION ALONE?

REALLY? That IS enough for you? Before you answer consider ... the WHY OF your answer? EVERYONE KNOWS Priest and King IS a worthy goal. To choose the bottom of the barrel ... isn't an indicater of humbleness IS IT? But one of SELFISHNESS in the NOW!

Food for thought!



ChaelD

Con

1 Corinthians 12:12-17
"12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body"Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free"and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,[b] yet one body."
This passage makes it CLEAR that though we are all a part of the body of Christ, we are all very different. If your foot decided on its own that only feet are a part of your body, and all the other "denominations" aren't, you would have serious issues.
"21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. "
Though it may sometimes seem like a different denomination is less of a Christian than you, truth be told BY GOD ALMIGHTY, those that we see as weak are indispensable! I also love that last verse, 27: "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. " We are INDIVIDUALLY members of Christ's body. You can not have a stigma against one or all denominations; according to God, it is up to the individual, NOT the Denomination.
Debate Round No. 3
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

COMPLETELY WRONG ... but BRAVO, you have discovered the TRUTH, that although WRONG in their divisions and beliefs, and althought in betrayal of the Living Word ...

ALL 43,000 DENOMINATIONS ARE SAVED!

But I thought we already understood that they were all saved?

Indeed, 1 corinthians 3:14, 15, Revelations 3:21 ALL CHRISTIANS remember, 1 recieving KINGSHIP and Sons inheritance, 1 recieving rewards alone, 1 recieving Salvation ALONE-yet being himself saved THOUGH WHAT?

that's right- yet so as by fire.

I never said they were NOT Christians? as a matter of Fact, at the onset you will note under DIRECT EVIDENCE AGAINST The Churches of Today- ACCUSATIONS between the denominations inferring KNOWLEDGE that OTHER denominations are not Christians because they do not follow their own personal denominations beliefs.

So your entire litany though absolutely TRUE, was never in question? By me at any rate. though the denominations ARE in violation of those scriptures as well, I simply had not the ROOM to list them, and there are indeed tons more scriptures in violation by the denominations, I just am unable to list them ALL in this small area.

But I applaud your efforts, and discoveries, you ARE INDEED on YOUR WAY to a better understanding of the diferences between the thoughts of Men and the Thoughts of God!

This is WHY, you must throw out YOUR BELIEFs they hold you BACK from the quickening of the Spirit and Relationship God desires for you and Him! You have been TRAINED BY MAN. Not God as I was once. Turn your back on the cunning of Man, the Knowledge of Man, and you will relieve yourself of the ERRORS of MAN as well, or not as you will.

Our time draws to a close ... but go back over our discussion, SEE the diferences between a soul committed to Man and a Soul committed ONLY TO God. SEE the difference. I am NO DIFFERENT than YOU, certainly NO BETTER nor Worse, the differnce merely lies in the commitments we have towards Humanity. I HAVE no commitments to humanity, it is passing away. ONLY God SAVES? I spread the GOSPEL WORD, I WARN THEM OF HELL, as required under Ezekiel 3 that their Blood BE on their OWN HEAD and not mine!

Ezekiel 3:18
18 When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.

God doesn't say anywhere in scripture that we are to concern ourselves with politeness to the extent that we FAIL TO WARN THEM OF HELL? Yet no one tells them? Doesn't make for polite conversation?

How many times have I heard brethren speak against me .. saying He is wrong you can't tell a person that their going to Hell that's not Christian? Really? And by WHOSE DECREE do they MAKE such a comment? Certainly not God, nor scripture?

The seven woes of the Pharises proves Jesus Himself laid into the unbelievers ... because the pharisees WERE UNBELIEVERS AND ATHIESTS. Believing in a God they DID NOT SERVE!

The righteousness of the Pharisees REMEMBER? They are IN HELL and so would YOU BE AND THE DENOMINATIONS SAVE FOR ONE THING and one thing alone! SALVATION IS FREE ... a GIFT of God. You certainly HAVE NOT FOLLOWED Christ? you have FOLLOWED MAN! And your rewards may well be ONLY SALVATION!

BUT ... as stated I have sought to enlighten you through this time. There is yet TIME, to improve your Report Cards before you HAND THEM TO JESUS. Take it .... TAKE IT!

or not as you will.

I found Con (ChaelD) an absolute delight, and have no complaints. You have done well. and I hope that our time together has opened your eyes to the significance in the diferences between the magnitude of knowledge deviation between the Levels of Christianity as shown in the 3 types discribed and demonstrated Here:
Those taught of MAN
AND THOSE TAUGHT OF GOD!

completely DIFERENT VIEWS is it not?
You will see in retrospect that the ONE FROM GOD ... DOES NOT FAVOR MAN AND HIS VIEW!
in fact it REBUKES MAN, for lack of commitment, servitude, and trust!

Where as MAN LIFTS UP the attributes of MAN, THE COMMITMENTS OF MAN, THE TRUST WITHIN MANS RELIGION! all the while in DIRECT DEFIANCE of The Holy Word.

you hear it every Sunday do you not? Some preacher somewhere saying ... IN THS SCRIPTURE it says this ... but in THE GREEK IT REALLY MEANS ...

RED ALERT! RED ALERT! ACTS 17:11

"11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Thank You for your time and cooperation. it is appreciated!

You may message me if you have any questions on scripture and our requirements under them.
Be safe, and may God Bless.
ChaelD

Con

This was indeed a very interesting and quite frankly, fun, debate. You are right- the biggest goal of ours is not what denomination we are, but that we warn the lost and to "improve your report card", as you cleverly put it. Telling them about Hell is vital, but not exclusive.

Matthew 4:19 Jesus called out to them, "Come, follow me, and I will show you how to fish for people!"
How did Jesus exhibit being a fisher of men? Not only did he warn about the impending danger of hell, he used the greatest hook of all time: LOVE. Jesus was a light in a dark world. He gained a following by showing love to the poor, sick, and unloved.

1 Corinthians 13:13 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether I am an Evangelical or a Russian Orthodox or a Messianic Jew. What matters is that I hold on to my faith, my hope, and my love. My faith is in Jesus, and he said "If you love me you will obey my commands." His command is to go into all the world and spread the good news. That is one of my goals.
My hope is that Jesus is coming back in the flesh one day to take me home, and I must NEVER forget that.
My love is to be manifested BY Jesus THROUGH me:

Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
When the sun sets, all that really matters is that each and every believer has glorified their Creator and been a witness.

As fun as it was for me to debate this, THIS isn't what really matters. What matters is that I go to school on Monday and shine the Light of Jesus through the halls and into the classrooms, and that every believer does the same in their environment.
Debate Round No. 4
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 21 through 30 records.
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
FolloworChrist1955: You do understand hermeneutics? Taking a verse out of context is a pretext.

1 Cor 3.9-15: For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Who is being addressed: Fellow workers, what was Paul (other than an apostle) and evangelist
Foundation = Christ, Gospel
Who builds on it = Evangelist who spread the good news or other Christians
Take Heed = No other foundation than Christ (Builder, don't change the doctrine & become false teachers)
Everyone builds with different materials, the foundation stays the same, but how you teach may differ
Each one's work will be evaluated = It will one day be made clear the quality of your work/effectiveness
Fire will test each one's work = I believe this to be judgment day
If anyone's work endures = they will receive a reward (not told kind of reward)
If anyone's work is burned = Will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved
Commentary:
The last part sums it up, you may go and preach and teach (Sowing the Seed). Some structures will endure some will not. For those who produce soul who endures, some sort of reward. Those whose work gets burned up (judgment) will suffer loss (sorrow maybe) but all of the builders will be saved
Again like the sower, we're just to sow, God will giv
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
ChaelD
SIGH;
I simply cannot reach you can I?
You INSIST on HUMAN OPINION, to get to a resolution. Yet even I do not know of a way to accomplish Gospel Truth through the opinions of Man?
I have expressed in the only way possible that I hold no opinion, yet you seem to insist that I make one? I cannot. Still I can at least guide you based on Gospel TRUTH!

Find ONE that uses ONLY SCRIPTURE. does not attempt to TELL the meanings, simply reads the scripture allowing the believer to seek the answers from God.

They can use nothing not available in the days of Christ, save Christs words alone, those of the Prophets, apostles.

No concordances, tapes, Cd"s DVD"s where they TELL the people WHAT TO BELIEVE, or what THEY BELIEVE. They cannot convert a single Word of the Bible, as that is a Violation of the scripture text. they cannot INFER anything because that violates the scripture on adding to the Word. They cannot express the opinion of any Human being outside the scripture itself. No weslian, luther, billy Graham, No one who does not appear IN the biblical text, and only then what IS EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLICAL TEXT.

I have found of the thousands .... lets see .... ahh NONE! But perhaps YOU CAN find one. The EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM is in a word CATASTROPHIC, and this So soon upon the heels of. Christs return.
Perhaps you can see my concern for my brethren, the SCOPE of the job I have been facing, do face and will continue to face till The Lord returns or Death take me.

If, I can get people to realize that they HAVE TIME to IMPROVE their report Cards BEFORE we have to turn them in to our Rewarder. Maybe, some may YET recieve a reward, instead of JUST SALVATION.
I believe it IS WORTHY OF MY TIME, to at least try. And yes I still argue with the Lost as well.

Does this help?
Posted by ChaelD 3 years ago
ChaelD
Before I respond- what is your definition of denomination?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
As to the FANTASY of a DEBATE FOC is awaiting? Your being lied to yet again!

THERE IS NO DEBATE?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
John 3:15-17 King James Version (KJV)

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Glory to God!

So hear me there IS NOTHING to debate. jesus Christ IS LORD!

You either KNOW THIS or you simply do not .... but DEBATE? Hehehe, no my obtuse friend ... there IS NO DEBATE.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
judaism;
SIGH!
Woes on the Pharisees and the Experts in the Law, Luke 11:37-54, Matthew 23:1-39, Mark 12:35-40 and Luke 20:45-47.

READ THIS DEBATE! SEE for YOURSELF of HUMANITIES OPINIONS, and behold the damage it has wrought! Then, IF you are STILL inclined to run to hear the WORD OF MAN, by all means do so. But hear me? Salvation is IN THE LORD!

Judaism COULD NOT, CANNOT, HAS NOT, AND WILL NOT, defend his position by the ONLY WORD that counts? The Holy Scriptures! You would do WELL to remember this!

You see the purpose of the instructions in the scriptures is to mature the believers in the knowledge of God, not man. That is to say, it is not the maturity of the MAN in the World, but the Maturity of The Word in the MAN. This fulfilling the scripture;
Ephesians 4:14
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

But? By all means, let it be as you will.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
I know it's been long awaited, but here it is! Mostly everything you'll read is on my blog as well, soon to go live!

Defendingthetalmud.com

FollowerofChrist1955, this is the debate you've been asking for!

Everyone, please see the link below:

https://docs.google.com...
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
jtlove;
Stay Silent please, you don't know what your Talking about! But that men may know you false, that they be not led astray by your biblical illiteracy note;

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

Note also 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Note also Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

These TO ARE ALL Christians.

the 3 Christians ABOVE are OBVIOUSLY NOT a Royal Priesthood are they? One TYPE of Christian WILL SUFFER LOSS yet shall be SAVED ALONE.

You State "Priesthood: Peter tough that all Christians were from a Royal Priesthood. "
IS Peter LYING? or ARE YOU?

remain silent please, the laity are CONFUSED enough thank you.
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
FollowerofChrist1955: Just to help you out. The qualifications of an apostle were to individuals who were chosen by Christ and had witnessed His resurrection. Often people want to question how Saul/Paul became an apostle. On the road to Damascus Christ came to and struck him blind, gave Saul instruction and appointed him to an apostle. While he was not at the resurrection. By Christ coming to him in his travels was witnessing Christ had overcome physical death.

You are correct, the apostles were simple common everyday men of the time. They were considered to be dumb and illiterate if you will. That's why on the day Pentecost we see recorded, "And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?" (Act 2:7). This is the account of Peter giving the first sermon concerning the Gospel.

Simmon who was just an evangelist preach the law of the prophets and how Christ had fulfilled the prophecies. The Jew's form the synagogue challenge him seen here in Act 6:9-10: Then some of those who belonged to the synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called), and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of those from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and disputed with Stephen. But they could not withstand the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking. (The point being, these were ordinary men, not scholars who preached and spreading the gospel in the 1st century)

Priesthood: Peter tough that all Christians were from a Royal Priesthood. That would parallel with the book of Hebrews was it stated Christ was the head of the order of Melchizedek priesthood.

1Pe 2:4-5: As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own...
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Judiaism: Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your material.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
Shalom jtlove

I'd love to present you some fallacies of the Christian claim, thanks for asking. Listen, soon, I'll be posting, you'll be able to see the truth.

Happy debating!
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.