The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DrAnomaly
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Discussion with A Religious Man

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 774 times Debate No: 110495
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (0)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

This is an opportunity for the unbeliever, perhaps even the Atheists to ask questions to a Man who unlike the MANY isn't wet behind the ears! Indeed with God to guide me I HAVE LAID TO REST THE LIE OF EVOLUTION with a SINGLE QUESTION (but the question of the Ages), the One that HAS SHUT THE MOUTHS of every Athiests From Darwin himself, to Dawkins and beyond!

The Question? NAME the Science or Scientists experiment that successfully CREATED from nothing an actual living animal capable of crawling OUT of the soup?
ANSWER:
NONE!

The lie began quite innocently ... LIFE
The LIE ... began when a creature crawled OUT of the primordial ooze?
The FACT: FALSE. By experimentation from Darwin to the Scientists of TODAY- ALL methods FAILED to create ANYTHING capable of ACTUALLY CRAWLING OUT of ooze of ANYKIND!

Meaning LIFE DID NOT have its ORIGIN from primordial soup at all!
TO THIS DAY only 2 possibilities ... termed Creationists and evolutionists!

HARD SCIENCE has EXHAUSTED EVERY METHOD and HAS FINALLY PROVEN FALSE the stupid Idea that LIFE began by a creature CRAWLING OUT of the Primordial ooze to BEGIN EVOLUTION!
Thus The entire Globe fell for the Lie of evolution, a method that literally HAD NO BEGINNING?

... IT NEVER HAPPENED!

this cannot be DISPROVEN because SCIENCE has FAILED to prove otherwise by millions of tests through the ages ALL FAILED to produce the origin of LIFE! The creature itself!

YOU ... LOSE!

yes you can whine, you can beat your chest ... BUT you can't produce LIFE from OOZE! It's just that SIMPLE!

Now that you ARE AWARE that God Does indeed exists, meaning Hell and Heaven ALSO exists. Because LIFE did in fact come FROM God as there exists NO natural way for life to have come to earth!

You can continue to deny God and DIE IN YOUR SIN- Going to HELL immediately at death.
OR, you can at the VERY LEAST become AWARE that Hell IS REAL. and you NEED to ask the questions that will HELP you to seek God and Forgiveness before you die either by accident or otherwise!

People DIE EVERYDAY ... you may NOT have time on your side! I am here to answer BY SCRIPTURE, not opinion whatever question you have!

To believe or not is totally upon YOU. I can only offer you the TRUTH of God not the truth of Men!

What questions do you have?
DrAnomaly

Con

Hey, before I ask any questions, I'll try to answer your question. To quote what you said,"The Question? NAME the Science or Scientists experiment that successfully CREATED from nothing an actual living animal capable of crawling OUT of the soup?
ANSWER: NONE!" This is an example of an argument from ignorance fallacy. You've assumed that because a proven theory about abiogenesis hasn't come out, that your hypothesis about biogenesis must therefor be true. That is not how logic works.

Next issue, "Meaning LIFE DID NOT have its ORIGIN from primordial soup at all!
TO THIS DAY only 2 possibilities ... termed Creationists and evolutionists!" - This is a black-white fallacy. You've claimed that creationism and atheistic evolution via natural selection (evolutionists) are the only two viable explanations for the existence of life on earth, without giving a justification for this dichotomy.

"HARD SCIENCE has EXHAUSTED EVERY METHOD and HAS FINALLY PROVEN FALSE the stupid Idea that LIFE began by a creature CRAWLING OUT of the Primordial ooze to BEGIN EVOLUTION! Thus The entire Globe fell for the Lie of evolution, a method that literally HAD NO BEGINNING?" - How do you know ever method has been tested? Also, evolution only deals with why life is the way it is. The theory of evolution has nothing to do with biogenesis.

"Now that you ARE AWARE that God Does indeed exists, meaning Hell and Heaven ALSO exists. Because LIFE did in fact come FROM God as there exists NO natural way for life to have come to earth!" - Again, this is an argument from ignorance. You assume that because the answer has not arisen, that your hypothesis is true. Also, your argument if everything you said was true/valid, would still be a non-sequitur. How do you know that God created heaven and hell, or that he even cares about humanity?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------MY QUESTION-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are things moral because God wills it, or does God will it because it is moral?
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Pleasure, to greet you, I had hoped you would accept! But I would have accepted any Atheist.

Let's begin shall we? let us set aside the nonsense first though.

Con's response quote " I'll try to answer your question."

Con's ANSWER: By Con's OWN STATEMENT quote: "abiogenesis hasn't"

nothing else you said means anything but excuses on your part and useless chatter!

Now we know abiogenesis IS OUT! We don't require FALSE Claims Con. ANSWERS not false Claims PROVEN FALSE!
as YOU your self said ... abiogenesis/biogenesis .... HASN'T (PERIOD).

Con quote "You've claimed that creationism and atheistic evolution via natural selection (evolutionists) are the only two viable explanations for the existence of life on earth."

The Human Race must stipulate that from antiquity the ONLY possibilities has ALWAYS BEEN Creatinism/Evolutionism.

My opponent therefore has proven in addition to Abiogenesis not creating animal life. That He is not above resorting to lying to not believe in God!

to bring up MORE UNPROVEN THEORIES that surface after evolution became problematic ... is not acceptable!
that you have an overactive imagination does not constitute viability! PLUS

It's completely uneccessary Con? No one reading CARES whether YOU believe or not? Not a Living Soul who READS our discussion will go or NOT go to Hell based on YOUR BELIEF? They will go for THEIRS!

Let us OPEN with TRUTH. Gods Truth which is the ONLY REAL truth in existence!

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.…


See Con ... no way to misunderstand this truth- WE (Believers of God TELL you the scriptures)
You (a) Believe and become baptised and SAVED=Heaven
You (b) Don't believe and go to HELL

P.S you may want to take note that nowhere does PROVE to those we Tell appear as requirement! So you can toss OUT every question YOU HAVE that wants ME to do the work your to lazy or uninterested in doing.

I already did the leg work for ME! that's all God asked of Me! I'm SAVED!



QUESTION: Are things moral because God wills it, or does God will it because it is moral?

FALSE
QUESTION: Morality does "NOT" exist in Humanity!

The following Scriptures are as foriegn to you as Human speech is to an Ant!
That you ARE UNAWARE of Gods Word removes any probability/possibility of you BEING MORAL at all! But? because the question is asked ... Gods people are moral because;

Scripture Confirmation:Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?

Deuteronomy 10:12
"Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Proverbs 21:3
To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the LORD more than sacrifice.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

Isaiah 56:1
Thus says the LORD, "Preserve justice and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come And My righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 66:2
"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD. "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus says the LORD, "Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Galatians 5
Life by the Spirit;
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.


Those who Live by Flesh
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Question Repeated: Are things moral because God wills it, or does God will it because it is moral?


like YOU-
you have not morality that is NOT ordered by Society. And Society HAS no Morality because they sell their votes to the highest bidder!

Thus Morality? Exist only in Christs people ALONE! By reason of Christ presence within the Being, aka (the Spirit spoken of above). Humanity does not possess that Spirit.

Scripure proof: 2 corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Humanity- lie, cheat, steal, take the lords name in vain,hate, gossip, Lust, perversion and on it goes! Not a living Soul can deny this!

That only ONE of these actions automatically sends you to HELL, is what is significant!

Scripture confirmation: Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins, he shall die.


Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Thus once Born ALL are destined to Hell at DEATH!

THE GOOD NEWS

For God so Loved the World ... sound familiar?

Romans 5:
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


God through His mercy made a way that MAN through Christ might be reconciled and SAVED from the condemnation of Adam.
DrAnomaly

Con

"nothing else you said means anything but excuses on your part and useless chatter!" - Do you even logic bro? I don't know if I should take you seriously now.

"The Human Race must stipulate that from antiquity the ONLY possibilities has ALWAYS BEEN Creatinism/Evolutionism." - Prove it. Also, ever heard of pantheism? The Matrix Hypothesis? Solipsism?

"Morality does "NOT" exist in Humanity!" - Fallacy of vague language? What do you mean by "Does not exist in humanity?" It either exists, or it does not.

I'm not taking you seriously, especially after you disregard all the logical fallacies I pointed out with your "arguments"

Here is some required reading/watching if you want me to take you seriously

Logic 101 Course:
Logical Fallacies: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com...
Introduction To First Principles:
An Introduction to Sophistry:

Also, check out this. You committed these fallacies in round one:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com...
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com...
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com...
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Con has no question. wasted this round wwithout evidence, throwing once again opinions as Facts. Sigh!

Con himself is guilty of ALL the listed actions of the FLesh as are all of the readers ... yet insists there IS MORALITY?
I am not here to listen to lies, imaginings and whinin! I offer you truth only! Not like Con opinion!

Example can I prove that YOU ... ALL of you SIN?
What have you hit your head? You already know you have taken something not yours, had sex out of wedlock, lied to get out of trouble, cheated on your taxes. My truthfulness is "NOT" in question!

There IS NO MORALITY within the Human Race, never has been. A simple LOOK at your Government tells you that. If your Blind , that isn't MY FAULT.

Like the fool Con resorts to MAN's truth which are imaginings guesses and lies.

I present Gods Word ... Con presents Man's , Like I said at the beginning, ONLY Gods TRUTH IS truth.
Believe, don't believe ... not MY Concern.

Your decision your consequence!

As there ARE no questions just whinings on this round. I leave the whiner to himself and his tantrum.
DrAnomaly

Con

I'm not taking you serious anymore. You're just spewing word soups and dismissing legit criticism. Something tells me you didn't read/watch what I told you to..
Debate Round No. 3
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Again, just whining, no questions.
Will repost for someone actually wanting answers, rather than false, imaginary reality.and human opinions.
DrAnomaly

Con

Truth, and logic are objective, just like mathematics. It's not my fault if you believe 2+2=5
Debate Round No. 4
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

No questions!
DrAnomaly

Con

FollowerofChrist really is a joke though. Imagine if he did actually disprove Euthyphro's dilemma. He'd be pretty famous.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
FedeAD;
I'm sorry that TYPED words can hold no emotion. No need for apologies, I am not nor do I become offended by words. Indeed, By necessity I must set aside all words that are of report, that are inconsistent with Scripture? Per Command of God in accordance with Acts 17:11.

I was not offended, brother! I simply speak such ... by Biblical training:
Ephesians 6:19
"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,"

my apologies that you thought so.
Posted by FedeAD 3 years ago
FedeAD
Sorry, I couldn't fit this into the last comment:

So what if God just changes his mind and wills murder? Would murder be good?
He can't will it! Since it would be against his nature, God does not change his mind, he doesn't evolve, he is already perfect.

So, God wills things according to his own nature, therefore, God wills it because He is Good.

Well, that is what I think, please tell me your thoughts! (Just keep in mind I am talking about God, not about humans, that is a different subject)
Sorry if my english is not perfect, english is not my first language.

Hope you are doing great! God bless you!
Fede
Posted by FedeAD 3 years ago
FedeAD
Sorry, I couldn't fit this into the last comment:

So what if God just changes his mind and wills murder? Would murder be good?
He can't will it! Since it would be against his nature, God does not change his mind, he doesn't evolve, he is already perfect.

So, God wills things according to his own nature, therefore, God wills it because He is Good.

Well, that is what I think, please tell me your thoughts! (Just keep in mind I am talking about God, not about humans, that is a different subject)
Sorry if my english is not perfect, english is not my first language.

Hope you are doing great! God bless you!
Fede
Posted by FedeAD 3 years ago
FedeAD
FollowerofChrist1955:

Brother, I am really sorry, I didn't mean to upset you, maybe my comment sounded a little rude.
I was not talking about humans, I was talking about God himself, let me try to explain my reasoning:

Are things good because God wills it, or does God will it because it is good?

1.- Does God will things?
Clearly he does, since he gave us 10 commandments to follow:
"Keep my commands and follow them. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 22:31)

2.- Is God good?
Jesus tells us God is in fact good:
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. (Luke 18:19)

Therefore, if God is good, and he wills things, the things he wills will be good too, need proof?

3.- Are the things God wills good?
"I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people" 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior" (1 Timothy 2:1-3)

Ok, so using the Bible we have established that God is in fact good, he wills things, and these things are good, but:

1.- Are things good because God wills it?
or
2.- does God will it because it is good?

Number 2 implies a higher moral authority than God, since things would already be good in order for God to will them, yet this is impossible, since God (in the Catholic perspective) is the highest moral authority, therefore number 2 is wrong.

Number 1 is closer, yet it is not completely accurate:
God is the highest moral authority, the best being (meaning the good-est being) goodness or badness is judged according to his nature, therefore good things are good because they go with the nature of God, bad things are bad because they go against the nature of God.

So the answer again is NEITHER: Things are good if they correspond with God's nature (which is goodness), so even if he didn't explicitly will something it could be good or
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
FedeAD;
As a Denominationalist (Catholic) it is not surprising that you are grossly mistaken thus lying! I'll go slow for you.

Moral- concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Thus Moraity DOES NOT EXIST IN HUMAN CHARACTER according to Christ Himself. Are you calling Christ a liar?

have you forgotten Sodom and Gomorrah who were destroyed for WANT of a Good man within them?

Thus IF THERE IS NO Good Man living, and there HASN'T BEEN one even when CHRIST walked the Earth, there obviously IS NO MORAL being alive and walking on this planet today?

The question:Are things moral because God wills it, or does God will it because it is moral?
is ALSO FALSE ... as the SCRIPTURES point out there IS NO MORAL THING ON EARTH!

Thus how "Man" an immoral creature DEFINE what he has never SEEN! No living Soul has witnessed a moral act, as Moral can ONLY BE DEFINED by God Himself, being as Christ said the ONLY Good?

Better to not involve yourself in matters you are not Biblically knowledgeable enough to know! But thanks for .... confusing the matter!

Proverbs 30:6
To add to Gods Word is unwise! As you can be easily shown you are either lying or Biblical illiterate?

you added the word Good to human character, no scripture exists that calls humans moral creatures! In fact even as Saved creatures we sin on occassion eliminating even US from the ability of Good!
Posted by FedeAD 3 years ago
FedeAD
Dude! You failed on the easy question! I am a Catholic myself, let me help you out:

Are things moral because God wills it, or does God will it because it is moral?
Answer: Neither! God wills it because He is moral.

Let's phrase it like this: Are things good because God wills it, or does God will it because it is good?
Answer: Neither! God wills it because He is goodness itself.

There is no superior moral law telling God what is good and what is not, He IS the moral law! But he does not just will random things and they become good all of a sudden, rather he wills things that are in tune with His nature.

Greetings from Mexico!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Nick;
Opinions? It was Opinions that landed you in the Denominations, which are the lowest of Christians.
Logic? hehe

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the Lord.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isaiah 65:2
All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

Psalm 36:4
He plans wickedness upon his bed; He sets himself on a path that is not good; He does not despise evil.

Psalm 81:11
"But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

Isaiah 1:2
Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks, "Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Isaiah 30:9
For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

My heart breaks for my Lord. Anger, disappointment, and pity is all you deserve. I refuse you on these grounds!
Posted by Nicholaspanda 3 years ago
Nicholaspanda
@FollowerofChrist1955, I've been a Christian my whole life, and from my perspective. every argument you've presented in the first round was logically invalid. Why? You provided NO sources to back up your claims; which were already false. I actually support @DrAnomaly to point out the contradictions and lies in your response. I need links to your evidence, now, please.

- Nicholas
Posted by rocinante 3 years ago
rocinante
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by WOLF.J 3 years ago
WOLF.J
Aka jargon
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.