The Instigator
backwardseden
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
W0LV3NBANE
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points

Do you as a christian believe that you should follow your bible to its exact text/ wording?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
W0LV3NBANE
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 857 times Debate No: 119731
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Con

Do you believe that you as a christian should follow your bible to its exact text/ wording/ terminology? Or do you believe that you can take liberties and change a few things to suit your wants, Needs and desires because some of the verses, Or even a lot of the verses, Do not fit with today's standards and or with what you believe? Y____? N____? And most importantly give the Why____? Or the Why not____?

Additional Rules:
dsjpk5 will NOT be allowed to vote in the voting process
W0LV3NBANE

Pro

I hope that we both are as respectful as possible in this debate.

I believe that christian should follow the bible to its exact text or wording unless it is stated otherwise and is clearly an analogy or parable. I do not think we should be able to change its meaning due to my belief in objective truth. I will try to explain.

The bible has the moral guidelines for all Christians. If the bible's meaning can be changed by people, Then people can change moral truth. For example, If the majority of people get together and say that sexual assault and genocide is morally correct, Then it becomes morally correct. I do not agree with that.

As an believer in objective truth, I believe that there is actions that are good and actions that are evil. There are situations that are hard to define as good or evil, Such as lying to help someone, But even these can be Identified as one or the other depending on the situation.

Regardless of your response, I look forward to what you have to say.
Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Con

"I believe that christian should follow the bible to its exact text. . . " Well first of all which bible? Let's be more specific, Which translation? "or wording unless it is stated otherwise and is clearly an analogy or parable. " I do not think we should be able to change its meaning" Well people do with different translations and thus the messages are changed. Here are a few examples:
* In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and KIng are two different and totally apples and oranges with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. In the ESV "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, Who does all these things. " The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" and "calamity" are completely 4 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match.
* Proverbs 15:24 KJV "The way of life is above to the wise, That he may depart from hell beneath. " NIV "The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead. " NLT "The path of life leads upward for the wise; they leave the grave behind. "Now, What do those very same verses and thus their translations have ANYTHING to do with each other?
"due to my belief in objective truth. " Thus it is impossible for you to have objective truth within your bible of any kind. This is only one reason among at least 50 reasons or better why your god, In which you cannot even prove exists, Would never choose text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.

"The bible has the moral guidelines for all Christians. " Nope. Your fraudulent god is completely immoral. Let's give you an immoral test and see if you pass. All answers 100% require a "no" answer. If you say "yes" to any of them, Then you are as immoral and as bankrupt as your fake god and you need not continue with this debate because I do not deal with those that are immoral. Naturally there are many other things that your god is immoral about. These 6 things only cover death. Ready?
According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a good idea? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.

"If the bible's meaning can be changed by people Then people can change moral truth. For example, If the majority of people get together and say that sexual assault and genocide is morally correct, Then it becomes morally correct. I do not agree with that. " So you do not agree with actions such as the great flood and your god murdering 2, 821, 364 in your bible which did include genocide after genocide after genocide which included babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions) in your bible? Btw, Satan 10. So you in no possible way follow the bible to the exact text. You do what you want, How you want, To suit your wants, Needs and desires when it comes to your arrogant bible because you know its wrong. Now that's being moral! Many congrats on that.

"As an believer in objective truth, " OK now that I can handle because objective truth because objective truth and moral truth are not the same. "I believe that there is actions that are good and actions that are evil. " OK so if you believe in your god, Then you believe he's evil. There's a good 20 verses in your bible where your god states this. One of them was already stated in this argument. Here's a couple of them. . .
* 1K I 22: 22-23 "And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, And I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, And prevail also: go forth, And do so. 23 Now therefore, Behold, The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, And the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. "
Really? Since your lord does these things, When it comes to you and or anyone else, Do you REALLY think he can be trusted for ANYTHING? Regardless, This is pure evil.

* 2 Chronicles 18:22, "Now therefore, Behold, The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, And the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. "
Same exact thing.

* Jeremiah 19:15 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, The God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, Because they have hardened their necks, That they might not hear my words. "
There's many more verses where your god freely admits he's evil. So are you going to take your god at his word or not?

"There are situations that are hard to define as good or evil, Such as lying to help someone, But even these can be Identified as one or the other depending on the situation. " Sure. But iffy situations like that scarcely take place in the bible. Why? Because its storybook character superior ego god complex in which the bible is entirely about and nothing else is only concerned with himself and not pettiness like combing his hair.

Please tc and have fun.
W0LV3NBANE

Pro

W0LV3NBANE forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Con

backwardseden forfeited this round.
W0LV3NBANE

Pro

It seems we are not continuing this debate.
I thank you all for your time.
I accept my loss fair and square
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Con

backwardseden forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
I thank you for taking the time to read my comments, I know that I can make stupid mistakes when writing my arguments and thank you for bothering with them. Regardless:
"WRONG just because ATE A STINKING FRUIT doesn't mean that the entire human race should be punished throughout eternity"
"Adam and Eve didn't know. They were children. They were taught ONLY ONCE. Children do NOT learn something from being taught something ONLY ONCE! "

Where are you getting these numbers from? Adam and Eve were not children! The first children were Cain and Abel. Also, The bible never says only once either. Granted you don't believe in the bible but since we are debating over the bible I think its important we understand the source.

And the "ATE a STINKING fruit" argument. Honestly I could go over the importance of the tree of good and evil but there is more to it then that. When Adam ate the fruit, He knowingly violated a law God had made in open rebellion to him. That's the crime that Satan violated when he rebelled against God to take his place. Justice says they get the same punishment. Its not like Adam didn't know this, God tells him upfront "If you eat of the fruit, You will die, " but he did it anyway.

You continuously tell me I'm 14 and my mind isn't developed fully yet. Correct. I will not deny that. Please refrain from using Dr. Phil as a source in future debates, As he has been openly fooled by kids younger then I am into getting them on his show, Which pulls away credibility.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
You do bring up valid arguments, However i'm not sure if you understand what I was trying to say. Here is what I was trying to say on the lying spirit argument.
"There's no reason, Not ever, Not for any reason, Period for your god to lie to any of his prophets. Since he did, This means your god cannot be trusted"
I will try to state this as clear as I can:
There is no reason for God to lie to his prophets. Not ever, Not for any reason. That is true. However, GOD did not lie to HIS prophets. In this verse a ANGEL convinces KING AHAB's prophets of BAAL to lie to KING AHAB. God did not lie to anyone, Most definitely not his prophets.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Then you have in your bible your god murdering 2, 821, 364 which includes babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions) in which you perfectly justify for no reason at all.
WRONG just because ATE A STINKING FRUIT doesn't mean that the entire human race should be punished throughout eternity. Btw since I'm an atheist, And because everybody at one point or even thousands of times disobeys YOUR god, Just like you and your friend jackgilbert who is in no possible way a christian, And nobody on this planet is, I'm better off for not believing in a tyrannical piece of manure spread god. Sheesh! Yes! Adam and Eve didn't know. They were children. They were taught ONLY ONCE. Children do NOT learn something from being taught something ONLY ONCE!

Let's get into Pascal's Wager. Its better summed upped not by you but by Matt Dillahunty and others and a cartoon all in which is common sense, Thinking, Reasoning, Rationalizing, Logic in which your god, Religion, And bible has none and thus knows a lot more about it than you because you didn't put any of those factors into play.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=YBCDGohZT70 - Atheist Debates - Pascal's Wager
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=G8BXyZXDqlI - A Great Response to Pascal's Wager - Atheist Experience
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=7V4Bl_gs3Lo - Atheist Experience - Jacob uses Pascal's Wager and fails hard
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NMk2kHZUrAc - Why Pascal's Wager isn't valid (cartoon)

See, Your mind is that of a 14 year old. Its totally incapable of making complex decisions. You know who Dr. Phil is correct? Several times on his show he's stated that the human brain does not reach its full developmental state until 13 - 14.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@W0LV3NBANE - Your're not getting it. There's no reason, Not ever, Not for any reason, Period for your god to lie to any of his prophets. Since he did, This means your god cannot be trusted, And its pure evil. I mean why not kill the f--ker as what this god of yours gas done sooooooooooooo often? Or as stated put some good thoughts into him. This is now a dead subject. Why don't you refrain from taking verses out of context? The verse is very clear in which once again your god would not use text, Not for any reason, Not ever, The worst form of communication possible.
"God did not strive to create warfare. He didn't try to give humanity hatred. " Really? And you know this how and why? Don't pretend that you know your god better than he know s himself considering the fact that he's freely admitted that evil, Anger, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy of all things are a part of him. You really should do some actual research on your god before you start to make some accusations and try to lay blame elsewhere. Now let's say what you state is truth. Then this means that your god is simply not in control of everything, Not in charge of everything, Does not know everything, Is most certainly not all knowing nor all powerful, Is in no possible way omnipotent, Is definitely not perfect and that divine plan is completely f--ked up. That's all according to you if "God did not strive to create warfare. He didn't try to give humanity hatred. " "That was our fault. " So according to you, Your god is not in control, Not in charge of the weakling, Weaselly, Fumbling little worthless flesh and bone splatterguts trash heap mountain of bile named man. Not ever, Not at any time, Not anywhere. So this god of yours was not needed, Wanted or desired, Ever. So according to you your god forced himself into humanity in which is exactly what happened according to your bible through a superior ego god complex in which your bible is entirely about and nothing else.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Backwardsen:
You say I haven't thought "why believe" yet. I have. My my conclusion was pascal's wager.
Blaise Pascal was a mathematican and physician who was debating why he should beleive. He came to the conclusion that there are 4 possible results after death.
Option A: One can choose to beleive. . . And be wrong. In this scenario, Life was not created by God there is no heaven. Your deceison was utimatly meaningless and everything you spent your life on will eventually be destroyed. Those you love will die and those who you helped will die. It is all meaningless.
Option B: One can choose not to beleive. . . And be right. In this scenario, You were right and there is no God. However you being right means nothing. You die, Those you love will die, The earth will die, And just like option A it is meaningless.
Option C: One can choose to beleive. . . And be right! You now get to live in a world with no lying or stealing created specifically to make you happy by the creator of happiness. Glorious mansions and streats paved by gold and wonders we can't imagine.
Option D: One can choose to not beleive. . . And be wrong. If heaven is everything good, Hell is therefore all that is bad. Endless pain. Endless fear. Hell is simply the lack of the things God created. God created comfort. In hell there is no comfort. God created releif. In hell there is no releif. Hell never stops, It has no end, It will continue past the end of time and forever.

I came to the conclusion I found the most logical. I would rather bet on the chance of heaven no matter what then risk hell. What would be the point of being atheist when your only options are either meaninglessness of pain.
This was my conclusion. You may do what you please. I just not sure why you would risk pain for nothing.
I thank you for your time.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Backwardseden:
I'm going to try to kill two of your arguments with one stone. I'll probably fail.
"I forgot to mention is that not once since your god's inception, Has there been peace anywhere in the world, Not at any time, Not for any length of time. Let's say for 30 years or longer. "
"This god of yours neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn, Man could learn to hate. "
God did not strive to create warfare. He didn't try to give humanity hatred. That was our fault. Before the first humans ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, They knew no sin. They didn't know that lying and hatred were even possible. They lived in a perfect world.
I thank you for your time.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Backwardsen:
You say "Since your god lies to his prophets, He's going to lie to you and you have no idea of truth from fiction. This IS evil. But then again, Thankfully, You cannot prove your god exists, "
His is not God. Those were not HIS prophets. They were the prophets of Ahab, Who worshipped the pagan god baal. And once again, The lying spirit was not God. God told the lying spirit "you will succeed" but that doesn't mean that God lied. Please refrain from taking verses out of context. I've seen you do better debating then that.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Jackgilbert thanks I'll try to remember to use it.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Matt Dillahunty loses badly here. A wise Christian demonstrates that denying Gods existence reduces ones worldview to absurdity.

https://m. Youtube. Com/watch? V=djpedVgdyck

If the link doesn"t work just search wise Christian destroys Matt dillahunty with his own arguments.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
One thing
I forgot to mention is that not once since your god's inception, Has there been peace anywhere in the world, Not at any time, Not for any length of time. Let's say for 30 years or longer.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenW0LV3NBANETied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff half of the rounds. That's poor conduct.

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