The Instigator
Percivil
Pro (for)
The Contender
Antaeus_0708
Con (against)

Does God exist(christianity)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,301 times Debate No: 110194
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

Percivil

Pro

Can we know"really know"that God exists? We need to be aware, first of all, that we can"t prove God exists in the same way we can prove the correct solution to a geometry problem or a scientific formula. We should remember, too, that although we can"t prove God exists, neither can we prove that He doesn"t.
H. M. S. Richards, Sr., founder of The Voice of Prophecy, put it like this: "It is easy for a person to say that God does not exist, but it is impossible for anybody to prove it. On the other hand, to the one who believes in God, there are many evidences of His existence."
The point is this: God"s existence is ultimately a matter of faith, however there are many evidences or reasons to believe that God is real. Let"s look at some of those evidences from the two great sources we have that tell us about God"the things He has made (nature) and the words He has spoken (the Bible.)

Lets look at nature for now. From the beginning of recorded history, one of the main reasons human beings have believed in God has been the marvelous things they saw all around them in nature. The psalmist wrote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament [the sky] shows His handiwork. . . . There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard" (Psalm 19:1, 3).
Look up into the starry night sky. How many stars can you see, just by looking with your eyes? The answer depends on whether the moon is full, on whether you are in a city or on a mountainside, and on other factors. Scientists tell us there are about 5,000 to 6,000 stars bright enough to be visible to the naked eye. However, you can see only about half of those at any one time because the earth itself gets in the way.
The night sky is impressive, but besides the stars which you can see, there are also millions of stars and galaxies you can"t see"all moving at incomprehensible speeds, perfectly balanced, perfectly synchronized in space. Who orchestrates this marvelous dance? Is it reasonable to think all this is taking place without any design or direction"just happening by chance? No wonder Isaiah says, "Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things. . . . He calls them all by name, by the greatness of His might" (Isaiah 40:26).
And what is true of the vastness of space is also true of the microscopic world. A single grain of sand is made up of billions of molecules, atoms, and electrons, whirling around each other like a tiny solar system. Physicists have unlocked many secrets of the atomic and subatomic world, but they still don"t know exactly how it all works. And they certainly can"t create that miniature world. But Someone did. The apostle Paul says that "since the creation of the world" we can understand who God is and what He is like "by the things that are made" (Romans 1:20).
Let"s look at one further evidence for God from the world of nature"your own body! Until something goes wrong, we often don"t think about the incredible way all the systems and organs of our bodies work together flawlessly. Nerves and muscles, bones and tissues, our heart and brain and lungs, eyes and ears"all these things and hundreds more"are seamlessly connected into a functioning, healthy human person. Thousands of years ago, the psalmist pondered the intricate way his body was put together and exclaimed to God, "You formed my inward parts. . . . I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvelous are Your works" (Psalm 139:13, 14).
We could find evidences for the existence of God from the amazing world of nature, but the point is clear: Behind everything we see in the world around us we find two things. We find intelligence, and we find power. And those are attributes of God. For those who believe, it is simply inconceivable that our complex, marvelous universe could have come into being without an infinitely wise, powerful God who designed and created it.

Now lets look at the bible:one of the most obvious sources to look at.The Bible does not present formal arguments that God exists; it simply declares that He exists. The very first words of Scripture state grandly, "In the beginning God. . . ." (Genesis 1:1). Those opening chapters of the Bible go on to paint a picture of this self-existent, all-powerful God creating the heavens and the earth. As the apostle Paul says, "By Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth. . . . He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (Colossians 1:16, 17).
In the Bible, God reveals Himself to us in a way that allows us to have a better understanding of Him than we could ever gain through nature alone. As convincing as they are, the evidences for God in nature can be misunderstood. In fact, that has often been the case. Throughout the ages, men and women have seen God in nature, but all too often they have confused the two. They have thought that nature was God and that God was nature. That"s why they began worshiping the sun and the seasons. That"s why they began imagining all kinds of deities that controlled rainfall and crops and sickness.
Without God revealing Himself to us more fully in the Bible, we would never be able to know Him as He wants us to. Job 11:7 asks, "Can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limits of the Almighty?" The answer, of course, is no. So God has revealed Himself to us in the Bible to give us a more complete understanding of Himself than nature alone provides. Let"s look at some of the things the Bible tells us about God. Prophecy:Fulfilled prophecy tells us that there is a God who knows the future. God declares, "I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10). The Bible contains many prophecies that have been fulfilled exactly as predicted. One of these is the great prophetic outline of world empires given in Daniel 2 which predicted that four world empires would follow one another"Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome"and that the fourth would be broken up into fragmented nations that would never reunite as a world power. That historical procession occurred exactly as predicted.
Another example is the fact that significant events in Jesus" life on earth were foretold centuries before He was born. These include His virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14); where He would be born (Micah 5:2); His death and resurrection (Luke 23:23; Psalm 16:10); and even how much money His betrayer would receive (Zechariah 11:12). History confirms these and many other Bible prophecies and demonstrates there is a God who knows the future. Another point I want to touch on is god revealed in jesus"s life.Jesus" life on earth reveals His Father"s existence and tells us what God is like. Of all the ways in which God is revealed to us, the greatest and clearest is Jesus Himself. Jesus said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9). Jesus came to show us what God is like. When Jesus healed the sick, He was showing us what God is like. When Jesus held the children on His lap, He was showing us what God is like. When Jesus fed the hungry, encouraged the despondent, forgave sins, rebuked unrepentant sinners, and worked miracles"He was showing us what God is like. Jesus was God, come down to live with us in human flesh (John 1:1, 2; 10:30).

Another point I want to look at is gods love. God is love. All that Jesus revealed to us about God can be summarized in one word"love. In fact, this is the word the Bible uses to describe God. "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love" (1 John 4:8). How do we know that God is love? "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). God"s love for us is demonstrated in the amazing gift of Jesus who came to live for us and die for us on the cross. Jesus said, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one"s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" (John 15:13, 14). Jesus calls you and me, His "friends!"

Now everyone always tells you that jesus is in your heart but what evidence do we have? The Bible says that it is foolish not to believe in God. "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God" " (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). Something deep in our hearts knows that there is a God who loves us and cares for us. When we deny that knowledge and refuse to believe in God, we are acting foolishly. The Bible says, "Without faith it is impossible to please Him [God], for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"(Hebrews 11:6). If we seek Him, will we find Him? Yes. God says, "You will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13).

Now if you are all still not convinced,I am 90% sure that you will be convinced after I say this. I present to you the greatest evidence of god.The greatest evidence that God exists is the transformed lives of the men and women who have searched for Him and have found Him and have invited Him into their hearts. This experience has convinced them beyond any doubt that God lives and that He lives in their lives each day. For those who have not yet asked God into their heart, God has a special invitation"and a special promise: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him" (Revelation 3:20).
Antaeus_0708

Con

Walk through a Pediatric Oncology ward, there is your answer.
If you are still not convinced then I suggest you looking into a scientific practice called genetics.
Debate Round No. 1
Percivil

Pro

I"d like to draw your attention to 3 miracles:the miracle of lanciano,the staircase of saint joseph and the incorruptable bodies of certain saints.

The miracle of lanciano is a eucharistic miracle, purported to have occured in the eighth century in lanciano itally. In a nutshell,a monk had doubts of the real presence of christ in the eucharist. When he said the words if consecration"this is my body and this is my blood." The bread and wine turned into actual flesh and blood. And this flesh ladies and gentlemen was a piece of flesh near the heart where during that time,there was no way at all to slice that musscle out.

The staircase of saint joseph is something which till today still cannot be explained is a miracle which occured in mexico. In a nutshell, there was a group of sisters who were sent fron kentucky to mexico to found a school for girls. By order of the bishop, a chapel was to be built and to be placed under the care of the sisters. Ater its construction,the builders were faced with a problem:there was no way to climb up from the ground floor to the choir loft. A staircase wouldve been impossible to build and a ladder wouldve taken up too muh room. The builders insised to demolish the choir but instead the nuns prayed a novena to saint joseph. After the novena, a mysterious man said that he could build a staircase on one condition:he"d be granted total privacy.

For three months the man was locked in the chapel and no one was seen entering or leaving the chapel. When the staircase was built, the man left without asking for any reward. The staircase itself is weird as it seems. A spiral staircase with no centeral support!? You got that right. A spiral staircase,6 meters long, no centeral support snd 200 years old. Bear in mind it has been used alot of times. Till today the staircase is surrounded by 3 mysteries:the physics if its structure,the buders identity and the type of spruce wood the builder used. As we all know spruce has alot of species but this species of wood till today is still unidentified.

The incorruptable bodies in a nutshell is very simple. We all know when you die your body starts decomposition immediately. Even under special care the body does not stop decomposition, however way you treat it the body will decompose just at a slower rate. One particular saint I want to look at is saknt bernadette. It has been if Im not mistaken 150 years since she died and till today not a single sign on decomposition has been spotted on her. There has been hundreds of cases like these. And till today there still has not been any scientific evidence for this to happen.

So after all that Ive said,can we still deny gods existence especially after the story of the miracle of lanciano?
Antaeus_0708

Con

Yes, i think if you were to ask any parent that lost a child, they would question the existence of God with more scrutiny after you mention those, ummmm, miracles?
You are relying far too much on faith to drive your points emotionally.
Just remind me, how did god create Eve? Now, think about it, in less than 24 hours God created a woman from Adams rib?
it is scientifically impossible and I'd have to say, our sciencific and medical discoveries have proven to be a lot more reliable than god's miracles #medicine
Debate Round No. 2
Percivil

Pro

The thing I cant understand is why you push the blame to god? Yes you can quesiton him why for this case why the child was taken away from the parent but dont you see that this was the work of the anti christ? And for your point on medicine,yes I agree our scientific and medical discoveries are reliable but who was the one who made these discoveries possible? Dont you think someone made these dots for humans to discover? And on your point on genetics, who was the one who made it? Who was the one who made its structure? Dont you see there is someone behind all of this? For your point on eves creation,Id like to ask:if god didnt create eve from aadams rib,how was the first female on earth created? Dont you see that all the things you have stated, there was someone behind all this? Be it god himself or satan whichever one. Im not just talking about thre scenarios you have stated,lets focus on one big scenario:Big bang. So somehow in some way an asteroid hit the planet and thus earth was created right? How did the asteroid hit earth? Gravity right? But who caused gravity to cause the asteroid to hit earth? 4.6 billion years ago the earth was formed. At this point of time we can all agree that there was light. No wonder in the bible god said:let there be light. 4.28 B.Y.A water started condensing into liquid form. In the bible it states on day 3 of creation god created the land and sea. 3.9 B.Y.A was the birth of organic life. In the bible god created aadam and eve. Dont you see that all these events happened one after another and in the bible the order is exactly the same? Bear in mind during bibical times no one knew about the creation of earth and yet in the bible the order and everything mentioned is the same?

In conclusion I believe there was someone behind all these events, be it satan for catastrophy or god for creation, miracles,etc. After all, these things could not have just been a coincidence am I right?
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Antaeus, your second argument is not thing more than conjectures. You provide no evidence whatsoever to support your argument of the nonexistence of God. You say "Yes, I think if you were to ask any parent that lost a child,"

Conjecture #1, "i think if you were to ask any parent that lost a child, they would question the existence of God." If the parents understood God and what the scriptures teach. They would be saddened by the loss of their child, but they would also rejoice in the child's death for they would know a child is not of the age of understanding of what sin is, and there for the child's soul would be sent to paradise.

Consider, Jesus taught that little children are innocent (Matt.18:1- 3; 19:13-15). He said, "unless I become like a little child, I can't go to heaven." How can that be if children are born sinful and corrupt? It can only mean they are not born that way! Concerning Isaac and Esau Paul states "For the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or evil..." (Rom. 9:11). Children are innocent and are in a safe condition until they grow to a point of maturity and become accountable.

Conjecture #2, "Just remind me, how did god create Eve? Now, think about it, in less than 24 hours God created a woman from Adams rib?" You obviously do not understand what is to be omnipotence, and omniscient. God is a spiritual being, He is not bound by the physical world and He is not bound by time. Genesis 1, God spoke, and things came into existence. Mark 1.1-4 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God"He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." The Greek meaning of the word "Word" is messiah. So, Jesus was with God at the beginning of creation, and it was through Christ that creation came to be. The Father spoke, the Son created.

1 of 3 posts
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Conjecture #3, "It is scientifically impossible, and I'd have to say, our scientific and medical discoveries have proven to be a lot more reliable than god's miracles." First, you have no comprehension of what a miracle is and was. Nor does the gentlemen in the affirmative. If one takes the time to read and study bible. You will come to realize miracles (also called signs and wonders) were used to confirm that the person performing the them was a messenger of God. It holds true for the time of Moses as well as the time of the New Testament. Read Exodus 4.1-4, Moses question God in how the people of Egypt would know that Moses was a messenger of God. In verse 21, God instructs Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand." Another important fact to point out here, miracles were the work of God, Christ and or the Holy Spirit. Not the person performing them.

In the NT we find Jesus going to heal a public official's son. John 4.48: Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." Signs and wonders are another name for miracles. So, Jesus performed miracles to confirm he was the son of God. In his letter to Corinth Paul says "Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds. (1 Cor 12.12) So, the apostles used miracles to confirm who they were. In the book of Acts, the apostle Peter preaching the gospel of Christ tells the crowd "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know Him" (Act 2.22)
Posted by jtlove 3 years ago
jtlove
Miracles were not unexplained natural occurrence that came about by happenstance, they were deliberate, purposely done acts that occurred at the command of the person performing them. They were of such of a magnitude of unnatural events, for those who witnessed them, the only means to understand what happened was an acknowledgment of living God Himself.

Now miracles served as a purpose and for a period time. The purpose was to confirm messenger was from God and the period of time was until the full revelation of God was revealed. Once the apostles and those who received the gifts of the Holy Spirit by way of the apostles laying on of hands (read Acts 8.1-28) were no longer upon this Earth miracles went away. There was no longer a need them and Paul told the Corinthians this would come about in "But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away." (1 Cor 13.8-10) Prophesying and speaking in tongues were a form of signs and wonders. Refer to Act 2.4-7 on speaking in tongues.
Posted by Jaguar_King 3 years ago
Jaguar_King
Antaeus, in your second argument you are declaring that an all-powerful God is controlled by the science that he created and thus is not all-powerful. An all-powerful God could easily create Eve out of Adam's rib. And a miracle by definition is: "An event not explicable by natural or scientific laws." which means that it cant be figured out by nature or science, and therefore you cant even use science to denote a miracle.
Posted by DevoutBokonist 3 years ago
DevoutBokonist
Antaeus, I"ve done many debates against the existence of god (I have nothing against religious people) on debate.org and off it, but that last argument you posted was amazing! I"ve never heard that before!
Posted by Antaeus_0708 3 years ago
Antaeus_0708
are you not permitted to utilize absurd proposition in a debate that has 3 rounds?
As there is one more round to further debate this topic, I am looking forward to being able to have my final response :)
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Gods exist on belief not proof.
Posted by Knowledgeable 3 years ago
Knowledgeable
Both Pro and Con have not provided any real evidence. Con, of course, is only making statements with no evidence to support his claims. Pro, is merely making private interpretations of the scriptures s/he is posting. Pro, if you are going to use the Bible as proof that your god does exist, do not make private interpretations. Let the scriptures speak for themselves.
Posted by Jaguar_King 3 years ago
Jaguar_King
Has anyone else noticed how Con has not given any real evidence on why God doesn't exist. From what i can tell all he has said is a mentioning of the Evil and Suffering argument (but he didn't even push it), and that he thinks that science and medical discoveries control an all-powerful God that created them.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
The Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a perfect god.
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