The Instigator
ABoleman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Juvia
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Does the Biblical God Exist? If so - is he worth worshipping?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/13/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 857 times Debate No: 116498
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

ABoleman

Con

I was raised in a religious household and as an adolescent I sought out God in my own free time. I have been an atheist for about 6 months now & the main reason that I became atheist was because I read the Bible on my own time instead of just listening to the passages the church read to me. I began by questioning all
of the psychotic things god did to mankind because they went against his wishes. I can"t exactly comprehend how god can justify these acts when he could have simply vanished them? In order to give mankind a break from sin, in which he created or at least allowed, he sends to Earth his son- only to have him murdered as well? Christians love to point out that god having his son publically murdered somehow excuses the Old Testament and the laws & brutality it stands by. I feel like even if god had his son murdered, it was still the same god who committed all of those violent acts. Even if I were to just disregard the Bible, I cannot believe in a god who sits idly by and lets people get murdered, raped or people live in poverty to the point they are starving. Religious people are quick to thank god for their blessings and yet never hold him accountable for all that"s wrong in the world.
Juvia

Pro

While it is true that it is hard to believe something that we cannot see, I still don't find your arguments right and reasonable. Before I go to my own arguments, let me first rebut the arguments that you have presented. First, you admitted that you are an atheist, according to google an atheist is "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.", with that alone, you have already dissolved the very essence of this debate. Saying that you're an atheist doesn't make a good point because what we are trying to prove here is whether the Biblical God is existing or not. Well, you provided in your next sentences why there is none. But it turns out that all of those arguments came into words just because of one reason, and that is because you are an atheist. When you started to question the content of the Bible and didn't even try to find out why those things are happening, you have actually closed your ears to whatever explanation is given to you. Now, let me tell you why you can't understand why God is doing these things, you should've read the next chapters of the book that you started reading. It is as if you read a question but had ignored the answer. If the Bible is your basis, there is where you should search for the reasons why. It is really hard to believe something that you don't fully understand. It all lies to you. Often we question things because we don't know the answers or we just refuse to accept the answers.
Debate Round No. 1
ABoleman

Con

I understand what you"re saying, however I don"t think that me stating that i"m an atheist takes away from the debate. A debate is meant for people of opposing viewpoints, and as an atheist I am on the "con" side of the Biblical god existing, therefore I was inviting a debate with someoneone who does believe in the Biblical God. The only reason I chose to debate on the Biblical God is because that is the one I have the most knowledge on. Furthermore, these arguments did not come
into reason because of my atheism, on the contrast, these arguments are what led me to become an atheist. You are making a lot of assumptions by assuming that I "didn"t try to find out why those things have happened" and that I"m "closing my ears to whatever explanation is given to me". I specifically mentioned that I was not only raised in a religious household but that I also sought out and studied religion in my free time, so no, I did not just sporadically decide to be an atheist when Christianity is what I was raised on and was a key part of my personhood. I did read the next chapters in the book, again I was a lifelong Christian. I did search the bible for answers to my questions, & I felt like it was contradicting. The things that the god of the old testament does & the things he justifies do not align with an omnipresent and omnipotent and loving god, and I don"t believe that sending his son down to save humanity from sin that god created somehow redeems that. And I don"t see anything "godlike" about a god who lets innocent people starve to death or be murdered or condemns people to an eternity in hell for not worshipping him. I also mentioned that religious people are always thanking god for blessings and shift the blame elsewhere for all of life"s atrocities. You"re claiming I closed my ears to explanation when I have quite literally done the opposite and am asking for answers. All you addressed in your counter argument was how my atheism somehow means I am refusing to accept the answer, while not acknowledging any of the points I made or stating why you believe in the Biblical God & why you believe he is a being worth worshipping.
Juvia

Pro

Good day!

There is God, and He is worth-worshipping.
I was given the free will to do what I want and to choose where to go. We are all given the opportunity to choose from the choices that life offers us. I choose to believe, but you choose not to (with basis and reasons, and I respect that). It all depends on how we interpret things.
We are all running our own minds. We are in charge of our lives so are the criminals out there who continuously spread violence and criminality. If you don't believe in Him, why does it sound like you are blaming Him?
Enlighten me, please. Thank you so much.
Debate Round No. 2
ABoleman

Con

That"s great that you are given free will to do what you want and choose where to go. What about the other millions of people who are living in poverty, dying of preventable diseases, starving to death, sold into sex slavery, murdered callously and cannot leave their county due to dictatorships (to no fault of their own)? They are in charge of their lives? Some of those people worship god too. And the ones who don"t are just victims of their geographical location, they are still good people. God is literally watching these things happen, and is capable of changing these things with the snap of a finger, but he just watches and decides not to intervene because adam and eve ate an apple? lol why is that worth worshipping? If I had a gun on me and watched an innocent child be raped and murdered and chose to just watch, what kind of person would I be? Remember that time god was mad at people utilizing their free will so he just decided to drown the entire Earth? Or how bout that time when he was mad at the Pharoah so he made a bunch of plagues to kill everyone including a bunch of children? I don"t believe in him, but again I was raised on this ideology and never once has anyone been able to justify this behavior or his lack of intervening. Even though I don"t believe in it, a lot of people do and I am genuinely curious how people can not only deny scientific evidence, but also proudly declare that god is good and capable of everything... when the state of the world clearly says otherwise. I probably would not care so much except religion has always divided people and a lot of religious people use their scripture to demean other people. If I were running around claiming Athena was the one true God and she is condemning all people with brown hair to hell, would you not ask me questions? I am a former Christian who is open to hearing any logical explanation to the biblical god, but literally no one can offer any explanation whatsoever. I"m not "blaming" him, I am just using the same reasonings Christians use to pose my question. I"m truly perplexed at the logic behind most religions so I was truly looking for clarification.
Juvia

Pro

I respect your belief, and I can't blame you for that. I am a Christian and for me, it was really hard to explain everything. I don't know everything. I am just like you who often ask questions but it doesn't mean that when a question cannot be answered immediately and clearly, it is no longer true. If there is an accurate answer, others who were born before me should have already provided the answers. I, as a Christian, had also experienced misfortunes. Just like many other people out there, I also went through difficult times. Failures, cruelty, injustices, poverty, discrimination, abuse and extreme sadness, I also lived my darkest days. I lost someone I love in a very unexpected time. And while I'm in that situation, I told myself that 'I DON'T DESERVE THIS'. But never did I blame God for everything because I still believe that there is a future waiting for me. A new hope. I don't care if I'll lose in the arguments because obviously, you have a lot to say to contradict my belief and I understand that. My heart is actually aching for the people who suffered severely from the evil hands of this world. Most of the time, something happened to us even we're living our life in its best and we're trying really hard to be righteous. We have free will, yes, every one of us has free will and that is the reason why we can't live in harmony. We're taking that free will for granted and most of the time others are being affected.
I am sorry for not giving you an answer.

There's this saying that 'if you want change, start it with yourself'. We can't control others but we are in-charge of ourselves. God doesn't deserve to be blamed because we are still living in this world where we are allowed to just do what we want. For me, He is worth worshipping because on the other side, there a lot of people who can appreciate that they are alive and breathing and that's because of their faith. Faith is the only thing that we have.

You can question His existence forever. It is at your discretion.
I hope you won't mind but let's end this debate already. I cannot continue. Call me a coward, it's fine. It's just that, I'm lost for words, this has no end. Belief versus belief.

I hope you have a good day! Thank you. I'm sorry if at some way I offended you.
Debate Round No. 3
ABoleman

Con

While I still hold true to my original statement & your rebuttal did not provide evidence or answers to the questions I asked regarding god, you have not offended me in any way. In fact, your response was really a breath of fresh air comparative to what i"m used to when debating with theists. You stating that you respect my "belief" (it"s actually my disbelief) and admitting that you don"t have answers and don"t know everything is something I"ve practically never seen from a religious person.

I don"t believe in god for many reasons, and normally I would argue all of the points you made. However, you responded with class, honesty and sincerity. When you give respect you deserve resepect in return. I understand why people may neeed to believe in a god, I respect someone"s belief to the extent that they are not pushing it on others, acting holier than thou or using their religion to be hateful towards people who don"t agree with them or live by their lifestyle.

We can end this debate and agree to disagree. Major props to you for being one of the rare debaters to admit you don"t have the answers & be respectful of someone whose views are opposite to yours. We all as human beings should follow suit.
Juvia

Pro

To be honest, when I read the proposition and your first argument, I didn't feel like you are calling for a debate. What I saw is someone who is asking for clarification. I felt sorry when I realized that I can't elaborate and explain my side in a manner that I could make it clear to you. Some people went up to the extent of disrespecting each other just because they can't meet at one point. I can't hate other people just because they don't believe in what I believe in. In fact, we both hate what is happening in our world. We're just in quest of who really is at fault.

It's not the kind of belief that we have that will make us exceptional, it is the character that we have within us.
You actually impressed me for being a well-mannered debater. Others whom I always argue with will throw below the belt words and for me, it will not solve the problem. It will just trigger both sides to do and continue the unhealthy conversation.
Debate Round No. 4
ABoleman

Con

I stated that I"m an atheist in my original argument to avoid that confusion. But I can understand if you misread it or made the assumption that I was asking for clarification due to the fact that I referenced the bible. I make the same kind of mistakes sometimes when I"m arguing something I feel passionately about.

I agree that most people hate what"s happening in the world. I guess the difference with religious people and atheists is that on the contrary, I am not looking for someone to blame. I understand the world as being random and by chance, that we are all simply just one of the many forms of life present on earth for this time being as a result of evolution, which is backed up by evidence. While I can"t be 100% sure of anything, I rely on evidence to believe in something. Because without evidence, you can take anything as true on the basis of faith. I used to be religious, so I understand why people prefer having faith over accepting that the world is chaotic and random and the end result is nothing. We can respectfully agree to disagree, I can understand why you believe and you can understand why I don"t.

I whole heartedly agree with you that it"s the content of the person"s character that truly matters. I really don"t care if someone is religious or atheist, black or white, male or female, gay or straight. As long as they are respectful I take them
as what they are; a human-being. You have to understand that my initial animosity in this debate is due to religious people (not specifically Christians) vocally treating others as less, being hypocritical, claiming they know everything, etc. These people are the loudest so they tend to represent you. However, for all I know, you could have the same experience with atheists.

I know first-hand where you are coming from regarding having a debate and the other person belittling you and throwing in insults, refusing to even understand your point of view and respect your beliefs. It leads to both parties getting angry, reacting on emotions and further bias and disdain of an entire group of people, all the while not even hearing or understanding what the other person is saying. The opposite of a productive conversation.

Humanity is so divided over things that could be avoided if we just simply lived and let live. If we could debate with people who don"t agree with us and actually hear them out and respect their opinion even if it doesn"t match ours. We kind of got way off topic lol but even though we didn"t settle the debate, it"s still refreshing to have a civil debate. Take care!
Juvia

Pro

I hope we can have another match with a completely different proposition soon. Thank you. All the best!!
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Juvia 4 months ago
Juvia
My dear TRUMPMAGADONALD, I am not diverting the topic. I am just trying to say that since the opposition side mentioned the Bible first, then it's a hint for me that he was back then somehow read it. Therefore, he must have at least an idea of what's its content. You are too clever to say that Christians are mindless robots! I must assume that you're really clever.
Posted by Fatbstrd 4 months ago
Fatbstrd
Dragons are real. The Hebrews left a cipher ( Cepher) which ,among other things, explains the beastly behavior of the mass of man. The mob swirled and swells like a sea monster thrashing about to get its way. The whore (church & synagogue ) knows well she rides the swell :)
Posted by Fontal 4 months ago
Fontal
I grew up from a very conservative christian background, so I would go to church atleast 3 times a week as a minimum. My parents would put God before anyone even me and my brother, so from all the years that I have been in this faith I have realised that the biblical God does not exist. I do believe in the existance of God, but what I believe is that God exists but man kind will never discover the true God, it would just be a search that has no end.
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Posted by TRUMPMAGADONALD 4 months ago
TRUMPMAGADONALD
Pro spews out typical Christian argument:
"Hurr durr you don't understand the Bible"
"Hurr durr If you are an atheist, any argument you make comes from your evil atheist heart and is therefore invalid, because you are an atheist"
"God doesn't stop evil because he has a reason to. But I can't tell you this reason, trust me it's somewhere in the 2000+ pages Bible."
"Just read the Bible and you will understand"
>But if you do read the Bible they will say:
"You didn't understand it"
And then they will make up some excuse for why God does what he does.
Christians are mindless robots. They will always argue in a way that diverts from topic. For example, in this case, Con said "I cannot believe in a god who sits idly by and lets people get murdered, raped or people live in poverty to the point they are starving. " - Pro completely ignored this and the only response he gave was "Read the Bible". Guess what? Bible doesn't answer that. And saying "I have refuted your arguments" doesn't mean you refuted his arguments. You didn't even address them. Con asks legitimate questions, and Pro dodges them. Con's point was: If Con was God, he would do something and stop all evil in the world. So why doesn't God, if he exists, do that? There can only be two reasons. 1) God isn't Good. 2) God doesn't exist.
Posted by TRUMPMAGADONALD 4 months ago
TRUMPMAGADONALD
Christian God is nearly impossible to exist.
In order to prove him, first you would need to prove that God exists.
Humans have made up and imagined over 10000 different Gods.
Even if you somehow prove that God exists, it doesn't prove that Christian God exists.
Chances of Christian God being real are the same as chances of fairies and dragons being real. Both have same amount of evidence and proof to support their existence.
Bible is a book filled with mostly made up stories and we don't have any proof of how accurate Bible actually is, because we can't prove or disprove stories in the Bible, because they have no proof to support them or proof to disprove them.

Bible and religions are all about faith. People who believe in magical sky daddy and pray for the removal of their troubles to the same God who made them happen in the first place, are simply deluded. The chances of them being right, as I have already proved, are very small.
Posted by missmedic 4 months ago
missmedic
I have read the book more that once it helps to keep me from believing. I have never seen evidence for a supernatural being of any kind, let alone an invisible one. If the god of the bible exist, then the god of the bible does not do anything, god may have done things 2000 years ago, but nothing recently. Is there any value or benefit in worship?
Posted by canis 4 months ago
canis
if someone could answer that...They would be more then the god they created..God can not..
No votes have been placed for this debate.