The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
NKTheChef
Con (against)

Evolution is proven fact. Prove the biblical god exists. That BOP is always upon believers

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,335 times Debate No: 106881
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (68)
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backwardseden

Pro

Evolution is proven fact
Antibiotic resistant microbes is 100% confirmation and certification and proven fact that evolution is taking place right here in the here and the now. Antibiotic resistant microbes are evolving every single second of every single day to become more resistant to antibiotics.

;- Frontline - The Trouble with Antibiotics Documentary
- Hunting the Nightmare Bactiria
;- Rise Of Superbugs Resistant To Antibiotics | Full Documentary
;- Antibiotics Resistance

The so what nothingness god of the bible (thankfully) is not proven fact

No matter which language you speak. god is NOT proven fact.

1. My opponent cannot win the evolution argument in which was just listed and proved. So only religion is left to argue in this debate.

2. Rules: The BOP to prove god is always up to theists. No exceptions. None.







dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
NKTheChef

Con

1. I believe in God and in Intelligent Design/Creation. The argument of God begins with creation, and there is such a thing as a believer in God and Evolution.

2. Your first point was that bacteria has "evolved" to become resistant to antibiotics. This, however, is not true. Each bacteria has a certain set of genes. They can connect to other bacteria via transduction. If one bacteria has the information to resist a certain antibiotic, then passes it to others, then they will also become resistant. THIS is how bacteria has "evolved." Not through evolution, but through transduction and conjugation.

3. Another thing scientists use to affirm evolution is the geological column. The geological column shows that the further you go into the earth, the more primitive the creatures become. But the geological column is highly selective. 95% percent of all fossils are clams and other similar organisms. Yet another problem with the geological column is that we have yet to find a full section of the entire column with all the strata. The final problem with it that I will state is that it was originally said that the geological column would form with all the strata over thousands of years. But with volcanoes, multiple strata can form instantly.

4. Intermediate forms. Evolution states that there must be some sort of intermediate form. Recently, it has been said that they change too fast for them to fossilize. But we have fossilized cowboy boots. Things can fossilize incredibly quick under correct conditions.

5. Cytochrome C. Cytosome C is a protein that is used in metabolism. According to evolution, the simpler the life form, the more closely related the CC sequence. Yeast's sequence for CC is far more different from a bacteria than a Horse, which is a "complex" organism. This is just one CC example that demolishes Evolution.

6. Finally, Evolutionists claim that evolution happens through mutation. But no positive mutation has ever occurred in a lab. Mutation never adds information to DNA, it only destroys it. And say that it did, but the new organism would be reproductively isolated and die out. To get two different organisms of the same species, a male, and a female, to mutate in the same way at the same time, is insane.

7. Belief in God, at its core, is belief. There is evidence to support it, but those are better found through personal study with another in person. If you want to find one from a nearby church, go to http://www.dtodayinfo.net... to find a church and a person to go over the evidence.

Sources:
Wile, Jay L., and Marilyn F. Durnell. Exploring creation with biology. 2nd ed., Apologia Educational Ministries, 2005.

McKeeman, Lori. Biology, https://www.pottersschool.org.... Sept. 2017-May 2018. Science Dept, The Potter's School. 13 Sept 2018
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

"Rules: The BOP to prove god is always up to theists. No exceptions. None."
So scratch #1 from you because you state its a "belief".
2. You didn"t watch the videos at all which is blatantly obvious and truly detrimental to your argument, because all have stated in which all of them state that evolution is taking place. Watch the videos because they have more power and ideals that you do.
3. Has nothing to do with anything. I only mentioned one form of evolution. That"s it. You stroll off into oblivion into the "who really cares" area.
4. No it doesn"t. Try harder.
5. Has nothing to do with anything.
6. "Finally, Evolutionists claim that evolution happens through mutation. But no positive mutation has ever occurred in a lab." Well it most certainly has. Watch the videos.
7. "Belief in God, at its core, is belief." Yes---it---is. So why even bring it up if its a "belief"? So you have no proof. No one, not one person ---ever-- has been able to prove your god.
The link you presented is not proof of any kind. Wow. So what if churches were built? What in the happy hairy hard off does that prove?
Oh and btw the slaughter you, and you flatly deserve it because of your bombastic schmuckdumb Stephen Hawking and his colleague came up with a mathematical equation that proves that something is gotten from nothing so YOUR god was not needed to have created the known universe. Now mathematical equations are the only facts that there are. 2 + 2 = 4 no matter which language you speak. YOUR god can be disproved, and rather easily, no matter which language you speak.

"Creationists do not try to prove the truth of creationism. They spend their time arguing against evolution." Matt Dillahunty
"There is evidence to support it," to support a "belief" ah yes I get it indeed. "
If you want to find one from a nearby church, go to http://www.dtodayinfo.net...... to find a church and a person to go over the evidence." Are you serious? No really, are you REALLY serious? I have been to many churches. Oh and btw, you from YOUR church cannot even get a consensus on YOUR god. So what are you squawking about? So let"s delete that link, K?
"If you try to get clarification, if you try to get what the christian orthodox view is on the law, you're not going to find consensus. You"re not going to find christians "oh here"s what christians think about" they"re all going to have this concept of this different thing now. But as far as it applies and why and what to do with it, they"re all different. Its going to be a hard argument because most have different ideas about it and most are going to change their ideas and start tweeking them as soon as they have to start answering questions because they haven"t looked into it before most of them." Tracie Harris

"If I were you I would treat this as an exercise in understanding the whole of the fabric of societies. So maybe go ahead and talk to your pastor and don"t go in with an agenda. Go in and just interact and interview him and find out interesting things. And find out points where you agree and disagree. And then do the same thing with somebody else. Go to your local synagogue and ask them about judaism. Look up as many denominations as you can and have a chat with people. And I think what you"ll find over time is that everybody is convinced that they know the absolute truth. And everybody has wildly different opinions about what that is." Russell Glasser

"Religious leaders are not trained in any sort of objective information. They are very well trained in is backtalk. So they might be good at making superficially convincing cases." Russell Glasser

And the second link you presented, wow my god are you kidding me? Nothing from your god/ bible should EVER be taught to children considering that YOUR god truly hates children to begin with.
- Atheist debates get em while they"re young

Here's a few verses from YOUR bible, and quite sick and disgusting they are, shows quite clearly how YOUR god truly hates children...
2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. From evilbible.com [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Deuteronomy 2:34 "And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:"

Numbers 31:17-18 "17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Leviticus 26:21-22 "And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate." Rob you of your children?

1 Samuel 15:3 "3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling , ox and sheep, camel and a$$."

Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Wow. Such a nice gentle caring god who is all warm and fuzzy inside. This book should clearly be read to children - correct?

2 Kings 15: 16 "Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up."
Ezekiel 9:5-7 "And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city."

Hosea 9:11-16 "As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. 12 Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! 13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. 14 Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb."

Exodus 12:29-30 "And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died."

Exodus 21:14 -17 "But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."

Now do you think you should be put to death for cursing at your parents? Why ____? Why not ____? Or better yet should you follow these ridiculous laws at all? According to your fricken idiot bible you MUST!!!! Well what if your parents abuse, rape and torture you? Should they die?
* Exodus 21:17 "And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."
* Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
* Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
* Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
* Matthew 10:21 "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Oh there's plenty more...
NKTheChef

Con

Very well, if you wish for this to be a debate about the existence of God, then I shall oblige.
2nd Samuel: God loved David, and it hurt him to do what he did. This was the punishment for the sin. But if we entertain God as real, we must realize he was sinless.

"If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted." Leviticus 26:21-22. This was in the law of the Hebrews. If they were hostile to God, then this would happen. But God created this out of love. It's like saying any parent whose spanked their kid was just as evil as God is to you.

Many of those other nations were messed up. One was sacrificing their newborns! God had to destroy them to stop the spread of their practices. He only worked out of love.

Exodus: The Egyptians were brutal to the Israelites. God had to find a way to stop their suffering.

OTher things
1. Jesus IS a real historical figure. It has been confirmed that he did live by extra-biblical sources.
2. Pontus Pilot has also been confirmed as a real person who lived. The Christians knew these thousands of years prior!
3. The impact of Jesus's life and his teachings makes it impossible to see Jesus as a liar or a lunatic. During the activities recorded in the book of Acts, they had no recordings of Jesus's teachings. Those teachings went from memories to letters, then FINALLY to what we have as the New Testament.
4. In the Old Testament, Jesus and the New Covenant had not yet come as well. What God had to do was to keep Isreal intact until Jesus was born.
5. And if Jesus was only a good moral teacher, then he would have lied about being the son of man.

other Evidences: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com...
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

YOUR BIBLE DOES NOT PROVE YOUR GOD. Only YOUR god proves himself. As stated In which you cannot refute, YOUR god would NEVER use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication possible. So every verse you use is 100% meaningless and useless. But I"ll get into a few to humiliate, degrade and dehumanize you just as YOUR god loves to do to others rather than bringing peace, harmony, joy, love, care for each other, etc which is what he should have done in the first place rather than all of this hate for no reason at all.

Btw, if you honestly think you can prove your god, then you"d be the ---only--- person on the planet who has ever done as such AND you"d be the only quadrillionaire on the planet AND billions would worship and fondle your toes and bring you gold and silver icons beyond all treasures of the universe. So why hasn"t ANY OF that happened? I"ll tell you why" its because YOU nor ANYONE can prove YOUR god. The only way YOUR god can be proved is if this god character stops playing a miss prissy truly childish game of hide-n-go-seek and presents himself to EVERYONE. Not just one small band or trifling tribe. Then again what moron would ---ever--- want to believe in this god who hates ""s of the human planet?

"Very well, if you wish for this to be a debate about the existence of God, then I shall oblige.
2nd Samuel whatever *yawn* you presented most certainly does not prove god.
Oh and btw let"s get into sin"
Matt Dillahunty "What is sin and why should I care about it? I understand why I should live an ethical life and treating people in certain ways, we have secular foundations for moral systems. But sin from the christian perspective is a crime against god or god"s nature itself - right? If god makes the rules and you violate it, that"s a sin. Well what if god makes a rule that you should kill your child, does that make it good? Caller " Yeah that"s where I do things that are not aligned in what the bible says." Matt "Yeah. But are they good things? Do you have good reasons to have that the things you are doing are not immoral? Like do you have an example? Like don"t confess to a crime or anything. For example the bible is opposed to homosexuality. Do you think there"s something immoral about those who are homosexuals?" Caller "Uh there"s none that I can think of." Matt "Yeah me neither. And so if the bible"s opposed to it add the bible is the word of god, and the Koran is opposed to it as well and the Koran is supposed to be the word of god as well, and there are two holy books and let them argue over who god is and what god thinks and until they can come up with a sound secular justification for homosexualiy being immoral then I don"t need to pay their views any money because its just an opinion at that point."

Sin is contradictory in your bible. Thus it cannot exist.
Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

Sin? Lets use Homosexuality as an example as christians call it a sin? Really? According to what? The bible doesn"t say anywhere in the bible that its a "sin". Try harder. Nor does the bible say anything at all against gay marriages. And the words "gay" and "homosexual were not inserted into your bible until 1947. So try harder. The biggest sin is to go against god. Now if god were in the slightest bit genuine, in which we all know better that he's not, he---couldn't---care---less. Its like you using a bad word when you were young and your mother washing your mouth out with soap. Big whoop. But god has this frail fragile thing called an "ego" which is sandblasted all across the bible which means he's imperfect. And since he's imperfect it means he should not be bowed down to nor idolized, nor worshiped.
But the biggest sin there could possibly be - ever - of all time..................... since I will not believe in god, I am going to be denied a place in heaven by that simple little gesture. Well goodie for me, all the more reason for me to - never - believe in the monstrosity that is YOUR god, not mine.
What value do you place on sin, or if its not your view, it"s the bible"s. Let"s look at some examples... On a 1 to 10 scale...
*Homosexuality which has never done you any harm to you must = a 10
*no other gods before me must also = a 10
*shall not make for yourself a graven image must also = a 10
*take the name of the lord your god in vain must also = a 10
*remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy must also = a 10
*god ensues slavery and the beating of slaves so that must = a 10
*god loves raped women so that must = a 10
*god can justify his many genocides which would mean the killing of innocent babies, children and pregnant mothers which is extremely, excessively, unreasonably, and is foolishly contradictory and hypocritical = a 10
*god knowingly hates children = a 10
Raping, beating and torturing a child must = a 1 because children do not have a voice in the bible, to SCREAM. They get to say nothing. Their mouths are glued shut.
The abuser who is raping, beating and torturing a child must also = a 1 because there's no relevance into doing harm to a child in the bible.
In no way does god believe harmony, love, care for each other because otherwise peace would have already been achieved = a 1
If you do not see the horrific details behind YOUR religion, god and bible, and its fatalistic flaws and how valueless they are, then you are completely gone into another non existent universe. But then again, you like the typical christian, have probably not even picked up your bible and read past page 1.

Leviticus 26:21-22.
ROB YOU OF YOUR CHILDREN???? Yeah YOUR god truly HATES children to begin with. Still using an inaccurate version of YOUR BIBLE ESPECIALLY when the version you use misquotes characters from YOUR bible, ESPECIALLY YOUR FRICKEN GOD AS DONE HERE!!!! Now how do you think YOUR god feels about that one?
"This was in the law of the Hebrews. If they were hostile to God, then this would happen. But God created this out of love." OK I"m ending this. Only completely immoral and bankrupt insidious tepid little creeps like you could EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER for any reason could somehow justify that as "love". Your religion is based on exactly what YOUR god claims himself to having as anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. Jealousy? What from a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Even worse is this supposed god of yours passed down those emotions so man could in turn learn to hate with all the baggage that comes along with it that these emotions clearly are that this god drags around with him. Hey god, dump those emotions and how"s about thinking about peace, kindness, love, caring for each other, harmony etc? Nah. So don"t talk to me or anyone that YOUR god is "good" with "love" when he is most certainly not anything like it. Not only that since this god of YOURS has these emotions it clearly means that he is imperfect. Now who in their right stale mind would ---ever--- want to bow down to an inferior supreme deity bile god such as the one you picked from your closet because what else could it be?
Strange isn"t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu"s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do. Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord"s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god"s orders? Why? Why not?

"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, the will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being?" or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins." Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this." Matt Dillahunty

This debate is now over because you are completely bankrupt and immoral and cannot possibly understand what love is. Bye.
NKTheChef

Con

If you do not want to contest, then do not read further than this paragraph. It is not a disciple's job to prove scriptures. It is ultimately a question of faith. To answer a large point in your argument, there are two different covenants in the Bible. the old and the new. And while God cannot be proved, the authenticity of the Bible CAN.

All of these come from extra-biblical sources:
1. 53 people from the old testament have been confirmed to walk the earth. Most notably, King David. (https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...)

2. Pilate was a real man. This was recorded by a man named Tacitus: "They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius" This shows that 1. They were called Christians (Acts 11) 2. Christ was real, and 3. Pilate was real.
(https://amazingbibletimeline.com...)
3. Another source of the authenticity of life of Jesus comes from the Jewish Rabbinical.
"Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, 'He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whoever has anything to say in his defense, let him come and declare it.' As nothing was brought forward in his defense, he was hanged on Passover Eve."

Therefore, the authenticity of the Bible CANNOT BE DISPUTED.

Therefore, we know that Jesus was real and that his Followers were real. Why do you not want to believe that he is the Messiah?

Also, there is a little word that disproves your entire point about homosexuality. "O36;`1;`3;^9;_7;_9;_4;_9;^3;`4;_1;`2; " Translated, it means gay. This is found in 1st Timothy 1. And there is an amazing point that I heard. Homosexual does not mean gay. Homosexual is when you are attracted, gay is when you act out. A "straight" man can be gay, but he can't be homosexual.

Also, we were once sinless. We had God in us, but then the fall happened, by the choice of man. The children of God are free from sin as long as they repent and confess. God purifies us, he gives us free will, and we sin. But he forgives and forgets.

I believe in Jesus and the new covenant. If you wish to debate the old testament, find someone who is Jewish because that is their standard, not mine.

Also, you mentioned that the Bible says it is ok to own slaves. Yes, it does, but you forget the era that they lived in. That was the day and age they lived in. But they were called to be kind to their slaves. And for slaves to respect their masters in return.

And then there is a matter of the children. God needed a way to keep them in line. It is what a parent does to their kids. What else could he have done to get their attention? I do not pretend to know all of God's motives and thinking, but you are HIGHLY SELECTIVE OF YOUR SCRIPTURES AND REFUSE THE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT I HAVE GIVEN, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS TENFOLD YOURS. You fill your posts with huge quotes about how Christianity contradicts itself, without ever showing more than a scrap of evidence.

But back to my initial point. The Bible has mountains of evidence supporting it, and in each of my posts you have waived it off. But in this post, I have proven that the Bible is a reliable source.

So I will move to another core of the Christan faith: The Ressurection.

1. We have no proof that ANYONE ever survived a Crucifixion. So we must conclude that Jesus died.

2. The empty tomb. No doubt you have heard this one before, but it was found empty. Even the earliest arguments against Christianity admitted that the tomb was empty.

3. The appearance of Christ after death. The Disciple saw or at least thought they saw Christ.
So, the either
1. Lied - They were his disciples, and if Jesus, at the very least, was a good moral teacher, which he was, then this is false.
2. Hallucination - this one has two possible parts.
2.1. they were drunk. See number 1.
2.2 Grief- Multiple people, at one time, with physical contact. That is not logical,
3. It really was the Messiah - This choice is true and reasonable and logically via the process of elimination.

So, in conclusion: 1. The Bible is real, confirmed by other sources. 2. God has his motives, he plan is greater than our comprehension. 3. The resurrection is real.
None of these can be disputed, especially not one or three. Just don't try to, I have evidence that contains first-person accounts.

Please don't attempt to reuse evidence. The case of the Bible is done through historical texts. And when I'm in heaven, I'll ask him about Leviticus, if I'm not too busy celebrating with him.

I have a concrete case for the Bible, and in extent, God. If you look at this evidence and cannot see it, then you are illogical.
However, there are two books that come to mind if you wish to study this further.
One is named "The New Evidence that demands a Verdict." I own a copy, and it is immense. But I think that all you'll need will be found in this pdf of the first bit of it- www.gracechapelsomd.org/books/The_New_Evidence_That_Demands_A_Verdict.pdf
The second book is a favorite of mine. It is titled "True and Reasonable" Unlike the other book, it proves the Bible through logic and reason.

If you got this far, I applaud you, it is my longest post yet. If you wish to end this argument here, I have no quarrel with that. If you don't, then I shall bring yet another mountain of evidence to the forefront, even more than I did this time.

But, deep down, you don't want the scriptures to be true. You don't want to have to change. Your arguments remind me of those of Darwin. And remember, many of his theories were wrong.

In fact, I know of two avid atheists, who turned to God. One is living today. He actually wrote a book on why God couldn't exist and has admitted that he is wrong.

The other person is C.S. Lewis. He tried to tackle scripture with science and changed his views. I hope God will show you the truth. There is only one more round left, and after we will be finished. Next round, I will continue to bring evidence, but, if you want, I will show what good will happen if you turn to God. God loves you and is sad right now that you don't love him in return. He led me to this debate to try to change your mind. If this evidence doesn't then that is because you don't want to believe that God is real.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
68 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
@LeeJohnson - Didn't read it. You don't pay any attention to any actual evidence just like the typical christian especially when slapped in the face with it, so I don't pay any attention to you. Got it dildo breath? You are as worthless as they come.
Posted by LeeJohnson 9 months ago
LeeJohnson
@backwardseden, I think I need to address something: I have nothing wrong with YouTube videos in general, I just won't accept them as sources. The debate you and I had seemed interesting, that's why I accepted it in the first place. With that being said, the videos you presented as 'proving evolution' was inaccurate. You specifically stated you were addressing one form of evolution; namely, your evidence was non-sequitur to the entire debate.

I'll admit that most of the information presented in the videos about the plagues was accurately correct but irrelevant to what I've been asking you to address - which is, what is your evidence to disprove the existence of God? And, can someone believe in Christianity and evolution?

Sure, you could try and use the "Darwinian theory" or more commonly, "Evolutionism" but as I stated, one can believe in Christianity and also evolution; as long as evolution isn't devoted towards "secular philosophy," but to the "biological theory" of how God created all things in the world (This is just the fancy way of saying the foundation evolution).

You quoting Atheists who have barely any knowledge of evolution and biology is hilarious. Saying, Matt Dillahunty, stumps Christians may be true - but only because he goes into a certain criterion that rarely anybody knows about; which he doesn't back up with evidence, I might add. I also find he does a type of Atheistic apologetic that I find very offensive. It is mocking, sarcastic, condescending, self-congratulatory and superior. Dillahunty's language also seems to attack the person, not address the topic of the debate.

I won't get into Harris, Christopher, or Glasser; but personally, they also babble on about scientific evidence that's faulty - especially when debating. If you need examples, let me know.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
@NKTheChef - See? That's why I nor anyone can pay any attention to you. Not only are you completely and totally unedumacatated and not knowing want the F--K you are squawking about as always you don't even know the definition of conjugation. Now look it up you sad pathetic miserable excuse for slaughtered pizza rolls on ant hills. Now do your god damned homework because you know NOTHING about the ADVANCEMENT of antibiotic resistant microbes. So until you do, then you are an atom as compared to the big bang. I mean jeez one would figure you'd watch at least ONE of the vides in which case ALL OF THEM KNOWS BETTER THAN YOU and so do I by light years, OR AT LEAST GOOGLE IT FOR JEEZ SAKES. Nah that's too much for youuuuuuuuuuu. Here's a hint for a preschooler like you with about 1,540,000 results "superbugs". Does that help your teeny tiny little brain now?

dictionary definition "superbug"
a pathogenic bacterium that has developed immunity to antibiotics, or an insect that has developed immunity to insecticides.
Pay attention "has developed" that means "evolved/ evolves". Duh. You lose.

Oh and have fun with this, on the light hearted note of things as a man wants to marry his computer! Its the first 20 minutes of Sunday's Atheist Experience.
https://www.youtube.com... - Atheist Experience 22.03 with Matt Dillahunty and Don Baker

You might also want to pay attention to the second call as he gets slaughtered. So does your god.

Nighty night preschool amateur.
Posted by NKTheChef 9 months ago
NKTheChef
@backwardseden, have you ever taken a biology course? Because if you did, you would understand that the way they seem to be evolving was just how they were created. It's called conjugation. In conjugation, two bacteria form a temporary link and exchange DNA. this is how the genes spread throughout the colony.

There were dead researchers that were from a time long before antibiotics, and the bacteria on them had the genes needed to resist. How did they do this? Conjugation.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
@WOLF.J - That's a quote from Matt Dillahunty the absolute best of the best who comes up with dinglers and bangers and doppelgangers like that all the time. He's from The Atheist Experience which is broadcast every Sunday at 5:30 EST. Its a call in show and they prefer theists to call in to have good debates. And they never lose. There's a 0% flaw within that quote especially as the flaw is blatant christianity staring back at hook of its ignorant self. Oh the opposition will be staring down the barrel of a double two edged sword shotgun with that one.
Posted by WOLF.J 9 months ago
WOLF.J
PRO, did you just say :

"How do you think god is going to look at you, when you've decided on your own without guidance from god about which passages you should pay attention to, and which ones you should conveniently ignore? '???

Mon frere please, the opposition do not want to hear of this blatant flaw, For the love of God, behave yourself!!
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
@WOLF.J - As far as those antibiotic microbes evolving, well they ain't stopping dead in their tracks, not anywhere close, now are they? Nope. Hospitals are having more and more difficult times dealing with them each day by day. They are evolving.

And don't worry, your attitude is just fine especially when dealing with those such as LeeJohnson who's intelligence and edumacation is below the belt of non friendly curly fries. His accusations of cuddled beefy q-tips for his you know where are areas with nests of fire ants are unwarranted.

Here's another form of evolution... Both videos state the same thing. The first is from PBS's Secrets of the Dead. They both state that if you have the CCR5-032 gene you survive the bubonic plague and it transformed/ remained the same through time so that in today's age you will never get AIDS. Naturally you have to have the gene from both parents and its pretty rare, but it exists. But here's what it is also saying... is that god is going to give it to this person, but not to that - to this GAY person and not to that... to this person and not to that etc etc etc. Please always tc and have fun.
- Secrets of the Dead S03E02 Mystery Of The Black Death
- Secrets of the Great Plague

If our friends LeeJohnson and NKTheChef decide to be rank amateurs as they knowingly are and not examine the professional videos (just because they come from youtube doesn't make them worthless especially if they come from PBS and Secrets of the Dead nonetheless which has a lot more credibility than anything they can come up with) then let them and please watch the videos at your leisure.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
Tracie Harris "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when your"re done I"m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I"m a freakin" monster." Caller "(sounds like) Truthfully (continues) you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent when she"s as evil as"" CLICK Matt "Goodbye you piece of BLEEP!!!"

"Now I am absolutely convinced that the main source of hatred in the world is religion and organized religion. Absolutely convinced of it. And I think it, religion, should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right." Christopher Hitchens

"Not lets appear to the Chinese where people can read and write and study evidence and have a civilization, lets go to the desert and have another revelation there. This is nonsense. It can"t be believed by a thinking person." Christopher Hitchens

"So when I say that religion poisons everything, the subtitled of my book, I"m not just doing what publishers like and coming up with provocative subtitle. I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. It says we can"t be moral without big brother without totalitarian permission. It means we can"t been good to one another without this. We must be afraid. We must also be forced to love someone who we fear. The essence of sadomasochism." Christopher Hitchens

"Not scorning the three electoral children who are everything to me and even a glimpse at a second life and even alone an immortal one, and I"ll tell you something if I was told to sacrifice them to prove my devotion to go to do what all monotheists are told to do and admire the man that said "yes I"ll gut my kid" I"d say "no" f--k you." Christopher Hitchens
Posted by NKTheChef 9 months ago
NKTheChef
First of all, so sorry I double posted, it was right when the site was acting up and didn't show up as posted.

"I agree with @WOLF.J's statement about you rejecting modern science - that's completely illogical. One can believe in the foundation of evolution, but also, believe in Christianity." This was something I really had wanted to address in my earlier post but didn't get around to it. I DO believe in modern science, but at the same time, I do not trust any hypothesis that has a highly controversial foundation, including Evolution.

"Well I wouldn't want my fellowship going around slaughtering and committing mass genocides~crusades, in my name." The thing that is not known by many is the people in these groups. They committed crimes that are pure disgusting in our eyes today. Some would kill their firstborn children as a sacrifice to their gods.

"If the priest tells something, who am I to question it." Priests foundation is in the bible and learning and studying it. 99% of the time, the instruction is given is straight from the Bible. And if the topic isn't touched on by the Bible, one needs to trust that they live for God, and study the Bible for a living. They should have enough wisdom to instruct.

Like I said before, I believe that this debate was misinterpreted as an Evolution/Creationism debate. It isn't that. But I would be honored if someone would like to debate this topic in a more formal manner.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
"If you try to get clarification, if you try to get what the christian orthodox view is on the law, you're not going to find consensus. You"re not going to find christians "oh here"s what christians think about" they"re all going to have this concept of this different thing now. But as far as it applies and why and what to do with it, they"re all different. Its going to be a hard argument because most have different ideas about it and most are going to change their ideas and start tweeking them as soon as they have to start answering questions because they haven"t looked into it before most of them." Tracie Harris

"If I were you I would treat this as an exercise in understanding the whole of the fabric of societies. So maybe go ahead and talk to your pastor and don"t go in with an agenda. Go in and just interact and interview him and find out interesting things. And find out points where you agree and disagree. And then do the same thing with somebody else. Go to your local synagogue and ask them about judaism. Look up as many denominations as you can and have a chat with people. And I think what you"ll find over time is that everybody is convinced that they know the absolute truth. And everybody has wildly different opinions about what that is." Russell Glasser

"Do you believe that god imposed that law in the OT that it was in effect and that it was from god? And if so do you agree that its immoral? And if they"re not willing to admit that its an immoral law, then they have to defend it whether they think they are under it or not because they have to say at the time is was imposed it was for example to kill gay people. If they want to argue that it wasn"t ever moral then they have to say whether or not their god imposed that law. And if they say "no god had nothing to do with the law" they"re off the hook but that makes other problems. If they say god did impose that law then they do have to answer the question "do you think its a moral law?"" Tracie Harris
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