The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
The Contender
Unstobbaple
Con (against)

FEAR of the Lord- the BEGINNING of Wisdom!

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Unstobbaple has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 810 times Debate No: 112991
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Proverbs 9:10
10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

To determine the truth of the accuracy of this statement each Believer must evaluate themselves on a personal basis?

Upon review and reflection that you ARE or ARE NOT ... fearful of the Lord shall be self evident?

Simple questions, simple answers?

But SHOULD you be fearful of The Lord?
The scriptures are innundated with warning to those who are not!

Job 28:28, Psalm 111:10,Proverbs 1:7,Proverbs 30:3

Were I to guess? I would land somewhere between 90% of Believers have NO FEAR of the Lord whatsoever, AND it is has been evident in their walk all along!

But? we shall determine this as we go.

Obviousy if a unsaved person accepts this debate it will be rendered pointless, but I will simply ignore them and their questions and plainly state the questions we must ASK and answer ourselves to determine where we actually are within our walk.

By its end it will be plain to every Believer, what (IF anything) you can reasonably expect as far as position in Heaven. King or Follower, Rewards or NOTHING but saved!

it is an appropriate time to reflect upon this as there appears to be enougn time for some to IMPROVE their report cards before we had them to jesus at the Bema seat?

no acceptance speech necessary ... just begin?
Unstobbaple

Con

I accept.

Couple thoughts. You've essentially cited the bible as an authority which has not been established and you have not defined wisdom. a definition of fear may help as well and I would avoid using religious texts as a primary source in a general debate not related to doctrine. Welcome!
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

We shall not trouble ourselves with the trivial. The dictionary defines what is required. To point out the obvious is wasted breath and effort.

That YOU are ignorant of the Biblical authority is your lack of education not mine. To suggest to a physics Major that physics is not established by reason of your lack of education on the subject is ludicrous. That the Bible IS authoritative is not in question by reason of your illiteracy, knowledge and understanding. As initiating member I am the expert in this subject, that you are not is irrelevant. It just means YOU don't have anything to bring to the table but conjectures. The FACTS lays with me! Believe ... or find out when you get to Hell, that of course is your option.

Please don't missunderstand as is often the case with the uneducated unbeliever and uneducated Believers as well. They (uneducated believers- remain in childhood for the most part, incapable of grasping the full meanings of the gospel, lacking in determination, boldness of speech as well as education in the high actions of the Faith. These will learn overtime or they will not, depending on the effort and commitment they bring to the forefront) at this point it isn't of concern to us.

Fear is also pointless, we shall assume you can read and can find its defintition in the same dictionary that describes and define the HELL to which you and Human kind is consigned. That is the purview of God Himself, thus not my concern for the purpose of this debate!

Were I to invoke mere logic ... it stands to reason that one of intellect would have sought for himself the truth behind the existence of Hell, Heaven, and God. I mean if you CANNOT bring yourself to be AFRAID of what the description of HELL means to you, enough to SEEK if it's REAL ... of what use is reading fears definition gonna be to you anyway?

I mean it is indefensible for any being purporting to be intelligent to "NOT" attempt to discover the truth of quote "Definition of hell-



a nether world in which the dead continue to exist : hades





(2) : the nether realm of the devil and the demons in which condemned people suffer everlasting punishment
a place or state of misery, torment, or wickedness
a place or state of turmoil or destruction
an extremely unpleasant and often inescapable situation

Humans "NOT" intelligent enough to have determined its REALITY for themselves already- demonstrate a stupidity that warrants letting THEM seek their own definitions of words rather than waste endless hours attempting to reason with such people.

They DON'T get it, and they are not GOING to get it ... why bother?

Unless of course you can show just cause and reason with defining something to someone bereft of intelligence to the point that .... having known of Hell by word of mouth since the beginning of antiquity, yet actively demonstrating not the slightest interest in FINDING OUT its REALITY is under any definition the actions of an INTELLIGENT MIND?

Many poor souls misunderstand plain english being themselves used to hearsay rather than clear hard evidence. I simply do not bother to chase the unreasonable, who have not the ability to reflect rationally, and are rather guided by instincts, emotions and opinions? Waste of time!

From a scriptural standpoint- God has made it quite plain- He has done this to get across to us (the saved) to not concern ourselves with those unwilling to seek for themselves, leaving them to their destiny which is HELL and Judgement!

Note: Mark 16:15-16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

I now quote YOUR opening statement-"You've essentially cited the bible as an authority"

Thus ... accordingly YOUR CONDEMNED! The question of whether you or I believe this? is as stated before pointless, as God is in command! Believe Him ... saved ... don't Condemned ... what could be plainer.


Now that we have covered the unimportant, we shall begin!

The concept of Fear of the Lord IS the backdrop of all learning? By having and understanding this FEAR the believer is guided to higher plateau of knowledge while its lack of, causes a stagnancy of maturity and growth!

for example .. if I give you some information then tell you their is going to be a test at the end? You will perform one of 2 ways?
You will adamantly study to achieve the highest score possible or you will not study and recieve a failing grade or any level above failing but clearly not high level marks. WHY? what is the difference? CONERN! You either CARE or you do not care!

Those afraid of recieving low scores STRIVE to accomplish the BEST possible outcome .... THAT is very often ENOUGH to get high marks. It promotes heath study, commitment to FORCE oneself to ACHIEVE! This is not done to make oneself feel Good. It is DONE to make SOMEONE PROUD of the student ... be it God, Parent, Teacher, Grandma etc .. The opposite is true of the underachiever, they care less about impressing anyone. They go about their way, marginalizing throughout LIFE!

Same thing with God? Fear of The Lord envokes an emotion ... a DESIRE to make God proud of you? Knowing His love for you, you STRIVE to please Him above all things even yourself ... this IS as it should be for obvious reasons!

The others? Plainly, they live lives of mediocrity, never attaining high levels of learning, never learning but the basics. easily sidetracked for lack of truth. They follow themselves and Humanity, never realizing their stangnancy. they do as written ...

2 timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

there are presently 33,000 -43,000 denominations in the World.
Are they SAVED? YES
HOW? Their Christians, that means they have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord! Salvation is FREE a GIFT of God ... says so right here: Ephesians 2:8
8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.…

So ... YES every denomination IS SAVED who claim the Blood of the Lamb!
What unbelievers do not understand is WHAT a Believer believes beyond that has NO IMPACT upon his/her salvation. What WE DO AFTER acceptance bears only on what our TREASURES will be in Heaven ... our PLACE if you will.

So stop discussing the differences of each Church. You CAN BE SAVED in any ONE of them. BUT your GROWTH? Depends upon YOU and WHOM YOU LISTEN TO?

If you listen to God alone, you attain Discipleship, Sonship and Inheritance Priesthood and Kingship ... a Throne. IF you listen to Man? you recieve some rewards or NOTHING BUT SALVATION.

Most Christians are completely UNAWARE of the different levels of Believers in Heaven, though it is plainly stated in the scriptures? I dare say almost 100% believe they will recieve Kingship, when very FEW shall actually recieve this honor!

Hosea 4:6 expressly states Gods position on the matter-my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

No Priest? Obviously No King eh?
and you HAVEN'T recieved His knowledge have you? You follow commentary, Scholars and Theologians all of which live in disobedience to the word, changing it, altering it, a thing you are commanded NOT to do, yet you do it don't you? You Believe what YOU BELIEVE not what God TELLS you to believe eh?

you change a single word to Greek? Who does that? In Spain you don't change 1 word you change the ENTIRE SENTENCE to English or Spanish, cause if you DON'T the sentence becomes in error?

So IF the Bible IS the INERRANT WORD ... WHY have YOU CHANGED A SINGLE WORD? and does that NOT violate Deuteronomy 4:2?

Are you NOT living in disobedience by reason of 2 commands? Deuteronomy 4:2 and 2 Peter 1:20?

IF the PROPHETS were NOT ALLOWED to personally interpret ... YOU CAN? Where did you get this idea? Certainly not from scripture. Thus you are living in continuous disobedience to 2 of Gods main scriptures? How many MORE are you living in violation of? and is it a wonder your NOT maturing in Christ?

ahh so much teaching ... so little time!






Unstobbaple

Con

Pro has failed to support his case in any way, lapsed in conduct and has failed to provide reliable sourcing. It's not clear why fear of a mythical being should initiate wisdom or what Pro even means by his premise.
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Con is obviously ill equiped to discuss what he plainy is ignorant of. that the debate was for Believers alone, was obvious, yet knowingly ignorant and Hell bound he accepted debate. That con had not the sense to save himself is fully his own responsibility and therefore his own consequence! See the proof along with the others when you arrive in Hell.

The concept of Fear of the Lord is based on observation not conjecture or guestimation. Indeed the existence of 43,000 Denominations bears vivid and realsitic proof of the Title.

FEAR of the Lord- the BEGINNING of Wisdom!

WERE one truly Fearful of his Maker, would there BE 43,000 Denominations in existence today? Of course not, the why is self evident.

Who but the most foolish and unfearful willfully dispute His creator? Question His Word at every turn? Disregard The creators commands outright? Obviously if one agrees that he is SLAVE to God? How can such a one willfully walk in his own wisdom, disregarding daily the instructions of His God? His Master?

Not ONLY would he "NOT", he would not DARE... yet, that IS precisely what all 43,000 Denominations HAVE DONE?

There can be no defense against this charge. the evidence is before you each and every day?

https://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com...

https://christianity.stackexchange.com...

https://www.gotquestions.org...

https://albertmohler.com...

https://www.christianitytoday.com...

https://tifwe.org...

yes I can hear it now. From countless Christians .... professing it isn't true. YET COMPLETELY illiterate! Why? From complete ignoring of their responsibilities to God.

Fear of the Lord? I dare say one who IS would surely "NOT" ignore scripture reading and study? Certainly "NOT" LIVE in direct violation of the COMMANDS of God to -

2 Peter 1:20 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

yet adopting the DOCTRINE of commentators, Scholars, Theologians, who are directly and against scripture command-personally INTERPRETING what the Prophets, Apostles and Saints were told :NOT" to do. THIS is indeed WHY there ARE 43,000 Denominations because there are 43,000 PERSONAL interpretations NONE of which AGREE and NONE of which IS Gods BELIEF! But MANs alone.

So each denomination has adopted its OWN Doctrine - as warned in scripture;
2 Timothy 345 traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these! 6 They are the kind who worm their way into households and captivate vulnerable women who are weighed down with sins and led astray by various passions,

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Hosea 4:6
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

Isaiah 30:8
8 Now go, write it on a tablet before them And inscribe it on a scroll, That it may serve in the time to come As a witness forever. 9For this is a rebellious people, false~ sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD; 10Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions"; And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right, Speak to us pleasant words, Prophesy illusions.…

You who know not the Holy Word but preach paraphrased gospels of your own denominations, twaddle of the commentors, Scholars and theologians, lies, False sons and daughters who tell the young believers you must "NOT" use scriptures.

Have you not read in the scriptures in Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

your words will never BE the Gospel! yet it IS all you use. How can you even HOPE to be Priest or King, when disobediece of the Word IS your lifestyle?

IS SALVATION ALL you shall recieve as written in the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Amen or O'me?

There is yet time to improve your report card before you have to turn it over to Christ on the Bema seat? IF not, fine go on your way, you have been warned, the rest is up to you as it is your actions not your words that will count!

This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Yet only those assigned to Hell call troll? Yet see not the commonality among them? All deniers of Christ therefore CONDEMNED in accordance with Mark 16:15,16

Talk about oblivious.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Judaism?
Wow talk about providence. I just finished reading about you in Hosea 3:4 "For the Israelites shall live many days without King or Prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods ". and you have been on my mind since then! You have BEEN without sacrifice and household gods since .... what 70AD?
Hosea 3:5 reminds you that you shall return with trembling.

You have my pity false brother.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
Don't debate FollowerofChrist1955, he is a troll who could never respond to a single argument I raised and worked so hard to provide for him. All he's interested in is bashing everyone and determining who goes to hell - as if he has the power - thank G-d he doesn't!

So no, don't waste your time with him.
Posted by Unstobbaple 3 years ago
Unstobbaple
@missmedic Kind of depressing in that I can't distinguish him from a troll either. I think I need 1 paragraph to respond and that still sounds annoying.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
DoulosChristos,
Stay silent child.
Posted by DoulosChristos 3 years ago
DoulosChristos
Follower of Christ:

1 Corinthians 6 is about judging matters in the church, the key word being matters. Not quite the same as insisting that 90 percent of Christ's body has no fear of the Lord, a claim which you still have not supported.

"What manner of brother is it that sacrifices not himself to aide in the correction of the immature, taking neither authority nor responsibility to assist, correct, encourage and rebuke those entrusted to us by the Lord?'

That's exactly what I did.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
DoulosChristos ;
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4So if you need to settle everyday matters, do you appoint as judges those of no standing in the church?

So then do you stand for Christ or for the respect of Humanity? Shall you turn aside your righteous anger towards those who demonstrate impunity to the word of God? It is not your place then to stand by the precepts of God? or is it rather through lack of courage and lack of boldness do you allow the brethren to fall?

What manner of brother is it that sacrifices not himself to aide in the correction of the immature, taking neither authority nor responsibility to assist, correct, encourage and rebuke those entrusted to us by the Lord?

Was it not the responsibility of the Apostles, prophets and saints to nourish the body? Is it your place to concern yourself only for your OWN good, leaving the young to struggle in the way?

Fine, let it be as you will, care for yourself only then. But speak not of brotherly love when you conduct yourself in such ways. And heed the warnings given by those of greater knowledge, greater maturity. Stay silent when you are bereft of knowledge of Gods requirements. LISTEN, until prepared to speak, and then speak only in Gods prospective, not your own. There is MUCH you must still learn.

That you do not agree is of no importance, it is God we serve not ourselves. You allow 43,000 Christian Denominations with your silence? If you stand for God how can you allow such things? Do you not know there can be only 1 way, not 43,000 ways ... yet you say nothing? Is it blindness or cowardice that prevents you from standing up? Do you truly believe there IS 43,000 ways? Of Course not, yet you say NOTHING? Then REMAIN saying nothing ... child!
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Unstobbaple
Your not in a debate, your the captive audience of a preacher. Science has learned recently that contempt and indignation are addictive mental states. I mean physically and chemically addictive. Literally! People who are self-righteous a lot, are apparently doping themselves rhythmically with auto-secreted surges of dopamine, endorphins and enkephalins. Didn't you ever ask yourself why indignation feels so good?
Posted by DoulosChristos 3 years ago
DoulosChristos
"Were I to guess? I would land somewhere between 90% of Believers have NO FEAR of the Lord whatsoever, AND it is has been evident in their walk all along!"

So you are saying that ninety...NINETY percent of Christians have no fear of the Lord.

Please tell me how you came to this conclusion. Have you met and lived with every single Christian you have just judged as not fearing the Lord? Have you looked into the heart of 90 percent of believers as God does? I would say in confidence, you have not done anything of the sort. Time would fail a single man to even interview 90- percent of believers let alone live with them and gather enough information to adequately judge them. And you cannot see the heart as God does.

I would ask you to please not make such hasty statements (Proverbs 29:20) regarding the brethren.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
The nature of fear..?

5 min. and forward..
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