The Instigator
FrizzyHairInc
Con (against)
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The Contender
omar2345
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Fallout 1: Was the Masters Plan good for the wasteland?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/30/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 454 times Debate No: 119250
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

FrizzyHairInc

Con

The Masters plan in fallout 1 to clarify is to take innocent humans and dump them into the vats to turn them into super mutants. As to the Master, He believes that mutants are smarter and stronger, As well as the fact that humans were the ones who brought nuclear death in the first place. My opening argument and what I think is the strongest argument, Is the fact that mutants have gone sterile and can't reproduce. Secondly it is immoral and wrong to force innocent humans to forcefully evolve or to not breed. Thirdly the idea of super mutants all being the same and there fore there will be no fighting is grossly incorrect as evidence by fallout 2. The super mutants even though they were of the same race, Did not get along and were divided by their intellect and ideas.
omar2345

Pro

Always amazing to see someone who has played Fallout 1.

The Masters plan was wrong. The reason when creating super mutants they lose reproduction. Meaning they are not able to produce offspring. Another flaw to super mutants is the ability to completely change a person. What I mean is either making the person really dumb or really clever. This can be seen with most mutants who cannot formulate a sentence. An exception which was not in the game but was created by the Masters plan was Marcus. He can formulate sentences and is able to keep peace with super mutants, Ghouls and humans.

Just realised you were on Con. I'll leave that in.

The Master plan was not wrong. The reason is if the Master realised reproduction was removed from super mutants. He would have found a way to either protect the genitalia or somehow give reproduction to the super mutants after the procedure. Another flaw if he found out was there was no women super mutant. To me that can be rectified if the Master has saw the tests and found a way around it. To say he is incapable of that would be a lie since he did create super mutants. What would be the difficulty in changing a few things when he created super mutants and almost next evolution of humans? The master is capable of fixing his mistakes and transcending humans to a more powerful state. It is a more powerful state due to the muscle mass increase and the length a super mutant can live for. The master only set out to create better humans. He was not creating a society where they get along. I am sure it would be easy because every mutant respects their Master and the Master does have the confidence to unite the super mutants. He was able to create super mutants it is not a stretch that he can make them civil.





Debate Round No. 1
FrizzyHairInc

Con

" The Master plan was not wrong. The reason is if the Master realized reproduction was removed from super mutants. He would have found a way to either protect the genitalia or somehow give reproduction to the super mutants after the procedure. "
Well this could have been true however most likely it is false as if the master knew there was a way to fix the reproductive organs, He wouldn't have killed himself out of guilt and shame. Not to mention the master is arguably one of the most intelligent beings in the fallout universe and if he really could of fixed the organs, He would have just killed the player and not have killed himself out of guilt and shame.
" The master only set out to create better humans. He was not creating a society where they get along. I am sure it would be easy because every mutant respects their Master and the Master does have the confidence to unite the super mutants. He was able to create super mutants it is not a stretch that he can make them civil. "
This is contradicted from the masters own words as when you ask him what his plan is, He responds by telling you that humanity needs one race and one people to move forward. He also states that due to mutants being stronger than humans, He believes regular humans should be sterilized so that they will be the last of their race. Not to mention the fact that the master had planned on taking over the wasteland, And turning more humans into mutants at the same time.
omar2345

Pro

He would have just killed the player and not have killed himself out of guilt and shame.
The Masters plan was around before the vault dweller left the vault. I would say if he realised that late as in the vault dweller tells him he still would've killed himself. The reason is the super mutant project was already used on a massive scale which meant he would be burdened every super mutant. If he did some tests on the first mutants he created instead of acting like he can do no wrong he would've realised there can be improvements made to the chemical used to create super mutants. Maybe allow a higher success rate for humans to become super mutants, Find a way to reproduce, Do not leave super mutants not capable of formulating speech.

He responds by telling you that humanity needs one race and one people to move forward.
I was applying to the super mutants and nightkin. One is addicted to stealth boy and the other are green. Both races respect their master and do not show any feelings against him.

He believes regular humans should be sterilized so that they will be the last of their race
In his way he thought he was saving the human race or giving them or more time to live. In some ways he believes the ends justify the means but he wants what is best for humans. He is not doing it so everyone can rival his ugliness. He had a goal to make humans better. That is not a bad goal in itself it was only bad when The Master did not realise the faults in his work and giving people a choice. You might say if he thought he was doing what was best for them he would not ask for their permission but as an idea The Master Plan is definitely a sound one but with bad execution.

Not to mention the fact that the master had planned on taking over the wasteland
His plan was to make everyone equal. Removing biases that come with race. Removing races allows less bias in interactions and allows ideas to be more important if race was removed. Nightkin is a different kind of super mutant but The Master can tell all his creation to wear clothes so that they cannot tell which kind of mutant they are speaking to.

Basically The Masters plan was a good plan that had bad execution. If The Master did not have an ego, Realised faults in his work he just might have made superior humans. That live longer and have higher resistances to any environment.
Debate Round No. 2
FrizzyHairInc

Con

" His plan was to make everyone equal "
See and this is the single thing wrong with his plan. No matter what there will already be differences, We even see that in fallout 2 when some super mutants would kill waste landers for no reason while other more intelligent super mutants would actually help the waste landers.
"Basically The Masters plan was a good plan that had bad execution. "
The masters plan overall wasn't a good plan morally wise. Logically I will agree it makes sense however we must take into account morality as well as individual rights and free will into account. Morally wise it is immoral to force humans to either be sterilized, Or to join him plain and simply. Secondly the master doesn't take into account the waste landers rights to freedom of will as we see with the destruction of the hub and necropolis, The master simply doesn't care about the ghouls or other humans lives at all.
omar2345

Pro

fallout 2 when some super mutants would kill waste Lander's for no reason while other more intelligent super mutants would actually help the waste Lander's.
I think you missed out the settlement Broken Hills. Where ghouls, Humans and super mutants live peacefully. Yes super mutants get angry when entering their homes but given enough time they will allow humans and ghouls to enter their homes. Some do not get angry even when entering Broken Hills the first time so if a not so intelligent super mutant does not try to kill you went entering their home that is a start. Yes some super mutants do kill because they find you a threat but Marcus when finished with making the town peaceful would join you in the quest. I would rather him search outside Broken Hills for super mutants who have no purpose apart from killing everything. The shock or the anger of The Master has left them without a purpose. Marcus is the right person to give them purpose in Broken Hills and protectors or just take a break. Whichever since it is better then killing anyone you see.

The masters plan overall wasn't a good plan morally wise. Logically I will agree it makes sense however we must take into account morality as well as individual rights and free will into account. Morally wise it is immoral to force humans to either be sterilized, Or to join him plain and simply.
Yes but I would argue survival comes before morals. Since they are still trying to survive morals can wait until people become more prosperous.

Secondly the master doesn't take into account the waste Lander's rights to freedom of will as we see with the destruction of the hub and necropolis, The master simply doesn't care about the ghouls or other humans lives at all.
That is one area where The Master does not care about which is the ghouls. He cannot create them into super mutants but since he did die in Fallout 1. Marcus can make The Masters Plan better by execution and giving people a choice. He can call it The Marcus Plan. Every plan has its faults and with a better person like Marcus I think it can get to a state where humans can choose to become mutants, He can realise the faults and since he is clever he might be able to retain reproduction while also making sure the effects of dipping into chemicals like bad speech and less intelligence might be improved him a good way and of course do not kill the ghouls.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
The problem was that no one wanted to vote on this topic.

GG
Posted by FrizzyHairInc 3 years ago
FrizzyHairInc
Well GG
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