The Instigator
olala
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
mackeeper
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Fat Acceptance Is Dangerous

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
mackeeper
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/25/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,306 times Debate No: 116825
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

olala

Pro

To start off, The fat acceptance movement seeks to eliminate anti-fat biases. They are also known as the Health At Every Size movement (or simply HAES). HAES is pretty self-explanatory. A good portion of fat activists believe that you can be overweight and healthy, That we should completely disregard the relationship between weight and health. Thing is, I don"t believe that is true and the way they see it is pretty much in black and white. It is NOT that simple. This mentality is misleading and can eventually lead to even worse outcomes.

Here"s my first argument:

Health and Weight are connected, It is wrong for fat activists to think otherwise because they are factually incorrect. We"ve seen it, Heard it, Experienced it; you name it. We all know that is simply untrue.

"Your weight, Your waist size, And the amount of weight gained since your mid-20s can have serious health implications. These factors can strongly influence your chances of developing the following diseases and conditions: Cardiovascular disease, Heart attack, Stroke, Diabetes, Cancer, Arthritis, Gallstones, Asthma, Cataracts, Infertility, Snoring, Sleep apnea"

Lets also not forget that excessive weight will damage your knees and wear down the cartilage from the friction. Aside from the unpleasant feeling of your bones grinding together till you collapse, The fatal consequences have become very prevalent.

"Overweight and obesity are the fifth leading risk for global deaths. At least 2. 8 million adults die each year as a result of being overweight or obese. "

Sources:

http://easo. Org/education-portal/obesity-facts-figures/

https://www. Hsph. Harvard. Edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight/
mackeeper

Con

The statement we are debating is "Fat acceptance is dangerous".

In your opening argument you simply do not attempt to explain why fat acceptance is dangerous - you have offered a definition for the fat acceptance movement, Which I agree with, And you have also noted some of the health risks associated with excessive weight, Which I also agree with, But you have not demonstrated how these two are related or that the former has any appreciable effect on the latter.

My central argument is that being 'fat' and being 'unhealthy' are not the same thing. While I agree with you that "health and weight are connected" - it does not follow that therefore 'everyone who is fat is unhealthy' or that 'everyone who is skinny is healthy'. For example: sumo wrestlers are usually 'fat' by most standards, But at the same time they are athletes that train everyday and have a strict regimented diet, Would you say that all sumo wrestlers are, By default, Unhealthily fat? Likewise, I am skinny af, But my diet is absolute crap, I never do any exercise and I smoke constantly, Would you say that because I am skinny I am therefore healthy?

Another crucial point I would like to make is that 'fat acceptance' is not the same thing as 'fat advocacy'. The fat acceptance movement does not encourage people to become fatter, Nor does it suggest that there are no health risks associated with gaining weight - it simply proposes that fat people should not be demeaned, Dehumanised and desexualised for being fat. As I see it, In order for you to argue that the fat acceptance movement is dangerous you would have to argue that fat people NEED to be pressured into becoming skinny for their own wellbeing - and this is something I reject for three reasons:
1) you do not need to be skinny to be healthy
2) it is not possible for some people to meet society's standards of skinniness without doing actual damage to their bodies in the process
3) even if point 1 and 2 were not the case, I reject the idea that belittling someone for being fat is ever the best way to get them to adopt healthier behaviours

Finally I argue that human bodies CAN and SHOULD come in lots of different shapes and sizes. There is no 1 weight range that everyone SHOULD fit into - a healthy weight for one person could be totally unhealthy for another person. This ties in to your point about knees being worn down - firstly, All knees wear down over time, That includes skinny knees too - do fat people's knees wear down faster that skinny people? Of course! But all that proves is that being skinny is an advantage when it comes to knee longevity. Fat people enjoy other advantages over skinny people, For instance, A fat person will obviously be much better equipped to survive the extreme cold - the point is, Different bodies are good for different reasons - there is no 1 ideal body that all bodies should aspire to.
Debate Round No. 1
olala

Pro

I do agree with you in the sense that fat doesn"t necessarily mean unhealthy. After all, The type of fat and the amount of fat in your body greatly determine how healthy you are, And fat is part of our diet and composition. But too much of anything is never good especially when you take into consideration where the fat is being stored. That, I shall explain eventually.

I did say before that this whole thing is not a black and white mentality. Skinny obviously doesn"t mean healthy. I could be heavier than you but healthier. After all, Many athletes are considered overweight but what the scales don"t tell you is body composition. Many athletes are heavy because of their muscle while others are heavier because of their fat. I also know for a fact that fat doesn"t necessarily have to be outwardly presented, There"s something called skinny fat, Meaning people who are skinny happen to have their body mostly composed of fat. You really don"t have to have a big butt and gut. And of course, I didn"t forget that there"s diseases like anorexia and malnutrition from being extremely underweight, Picky, Or whatever the cause may be. The thing is, In rich and modern countries, That is not really the case anymore. Food is no longer an issue and is constantly available all around us, We are on a completely different side of the spectrum. We are just getting bigger.

Now about the sumo wrestlers, They are definitely healthier because they engage in vigorous activity and follow some sort of regime. But we mustn"t forget what kind of audience the Fat Acceptance movement consists of. A good portion of overweight or obese audience members are not like sumo wrestlers because the majority of them do not engage in as much activity as sumo wrestlers and I can guarantee that the majority of them do not follow a strict regime. That is why the message they"re getting out is concerning. They"re basically telling them to sugarcoat their problems or potential problems and just accept themselves as they are especially when you take into consideration what countries embrace fat acceptance.

Fat acceptance was founded in the US and is widely embraced there, It"s also become a thing in places like the UK and Australia of which those countries are already experiencing the consquences. Overall, "the most common causes of obesity are overeating and physical inactivity" in the US which is completely opposite of what sumo wrestlers do. Because of this, 109, 342, 839 people in the US are obese making it one of the heaviest nations in the world.

Now, The placement of fat. You said that that sumo wrestlers are fat and healthy but you did miss something very crucial. The conception of fat is not "black and white" as I said in my first argument.

Firstly:
"The study revealed that although the wrestlers have enormous bellies, Most of their abdominal fat is stored immediately under the skin, And not behind the stomach wall within the gut or visceral area. In fact, Sumo wrestlers had about half of the visceral fat of regular people with visceral obesity. "
The fact that the fat they store doesn"t affect their organs makes them much more healthier than fat people in places like the US or UK. It is not surprising to find millions of people losing their lives to such issues. This leads to my second point.

Secondly:
"the most significant cause of death were diseases of the heart which were responsible for 23. 1 percent of all deaths in the United States. "
"The CDC doesn't list obesity as a cause of death. Instead, It lists heart disease as the No. 1 cause, Killing nearly 598, 000 people a year, While cancer kills 575, 000. Overall, Nearly 2. 5 million Americans died in 2010. "
As you can see, It so happens that being overweight and obese correlates with the majority of these deaths.

https://www. Nbcnews. Com/health/heavy-burden-obesity-may-be-even-deadlier-thought-6C10930019

https://renewbariatrics. Com/obesity-rank-by-countries/

https://www. Medicinenet. Com/obesity_weight_loss/article. Htm

https://www. Statista. Com/statistics/248622/rates-of-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/
mackeeper

Con

Before we continue I would like to make it totally clear that I agree that obesity is a very important healthcare issue, So you don't need to provide any further arguments for why this is the case - and in any case, That is not what we are arguing. What I am interested in is discussion of whether the fat acceptance movement contributes to the problem of obesity.

From what I can tell your argument for why the fat acceptance movement is dangerous is as follows:
1) a majority of people who support the fat acceptance movement are themselves dangerously overweight and
2) fat acceptance teaches these people that they can and should ignore the health risks associated with being fat
whether or not statement 1 is true (you would need to prove this, So provide sources if you think you can), Statement 2 is just false.

The fat acceptance movement does not try to minimise the health risks associated with obesity it simply proposes that fat itself is not inherently a problem, Which is something you already agree with. From your third source, You quote: "the most common causes of obesity are overeating and physical inactivity. " - yes, Precisely, Overeating and physical inactivity is the problem, Not 'fat', The fat acceptance movement does not promote "overeating and physical inactivity" it tries to lift the stigmas associated with fatness.

Now to turn to your reasoning and your sources. You seem to suggest that because fat acceptance is more common in America and the UK and because those countries have high obesity rates that therefore fat acceptance contributes to obesity. This logic is extremely flawed.

Can I point out that your second source is some statistics posted on the site for a company that does gastric band surgery? That's not exactly what I would call an impartial source. But the statistics themselves show that America is the 19th most obese country per capita. This is YOUR source that says this (honestly its a surprise for me too). Qatar is 8th on the list with an obesity rate of 42. 3%, 11 whole places higher than America, Does that mean that the fat acceptance movement must be even bigger in Qatar than the US?

You have not demonstrated a correlation between fat acceptance and obesity.
Debate Round No. 2
olala

Pro

Alright. So right now I shall point out why the fat acceptance is dangerous and misleading besides all the health implications that come along with neglecting your health because you believe that anyone is healthy at any size. Of course, I definitely believe that making people feel horrible for their size is wrong. But when I look at fat activists, They are putting the movement out there in negative light and that"s why many people do not take it seriously.

From my experiences and research, I can definitely say that the "fat-phobic" and "discriminatory" nature of society, As fat activists perceive and fight against since this is literally the purpose of the movement, Is far too exaggerated to a certain extent.

For example, "two Samoan businessmen filed complaints against the U. S. Department of Transportation (DOT) after being weighed prior to boarding a Hawaiian Airlines flight in Honolulu. They "argue it"s a form of discrimination against body type. "

So, Being weighed is discrimination? Geez, I don"t like being weighed either but I don"t go around telling people I am being discriminated against.

"Major airlines such as American Airlines and United Airlines will require overweight fliers to purchase an additional seat or upgrade should they encroach on another passenger"s space. "

This policy has been scrutinized by the public, Arguing that it is some form of hatred and fat-phobia. But do they not realize that having your weight spilled onto another person"s seat, Which should be purchased and is the source of income for the airline, Could be purchased by another traveller who needs the seat just as much as you do? Fat activists are not paying attention to others but themselves, Thinking that they are the only ones suffering. Personally, I am not fat myself but the seats aren"t super comfortable because I travel for long hours and I couldn"t move a lot because of the limited room. I do not need someone else adding to my discomfort.

"The FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) requires a passenger to be able to sit in their seat. If a passenger cannot fasten their seat belt with a seat belt extension or lower their armrest, That"s a safety issue. "

So not only does this add discomfort to me, It puts me at risk along with the overweight being. One"s excessive weight should not be prioritized more than the safety of all passengers.

Along with the over exaggeration, People are now using fat positivity as an excuse to not change the status of their health. Here is a very popular example:

"Natalie wasn't always overweight but when she was 17 her weight gain started after she was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. "I slowly became fatter and fatter, " she says. "When I began to gain weight, I was a little worried. . . But as time went on I became OK with being fat. ""

So, Are we gonna completely disregard the fact that she is diabetic? This will add more problems onto her if she doesn"t turn herself around. I agree that it is much better to love and accept yourself but this self-love and self-acceptance doesn"t make the health risks go away. It is still something to be concerned about.

Moreover, Arguably there"s some misconceptions about the fat positivity coming from the activists themselves. The popular saying "Big is beautiful" is meant to mean that being big is not ugly and you should love your body but some people use this saying to shame people other than themselves. And of course, We cannot forget "men like curves, Only dogs go for bones". For big people to say that is very hypocritical especially when they try to promote body positivity. It only seems that liking skinnier people is a form of fat-phobia, That it is discriminatory and hateful. This leads to my other point. . .

A handful of people are confusing preference for discrimination. These words are not at all related. One thing for sure is that they don"t want people to have their own opinions which is not so liberating. *ahem ahem* I think we are all entitled to what we prefer and not a single person out there should ever change that because they"ll get offended.

See how all of this connects? The health implications that come along with using fat acceptance as a scapegoat for not changing health status is already very concerning. I already provided how many people have died from obesity-related issues. Moreover, This over exaggeration has made people believe more and more that the world is working against them and are now getting confused between preferences and discrimination! And they already are claiming airlines are discriminatory because of seating, So instead of the safety precautions being met with seatings, They"d rather focus on their problems than on the safety of others.

Sources:

https://www. Sbs. Com. Au/news/thefeed/story/fat-pride-growing-movement-people-looking-fat-acceptance

https://theculturetrip. Com/north-america/usa/articles/are-airlines-fat-shaming-their-passengers/
mackeeper

Con

So, Let me get this straight - the best example you can provide for why the fat acceptance movement is dangerous is that: one time, Two people filed a complaint against a giant airline company. If that is the worst thing to come out of the fat acceptance movement I think we can pretty definitively call it 'not dangerous'.

But lets unpack this example. First of all, The article you have cited agrees that weighing passengers is a subtle form of discrimination - once again, YOUR source disagrees with your point. Second of all, Yes! It is discriminatory! As you point out: "Major airlines such as American Airlines and United Airlines will require overweight fliers to purchase an additional seat or upgrade should they encroach on another passenger"s space" - airlines are literally charging fat people more money than skinny people, That is obvious and unambiguous discrimination.

So you don't like being squished up next to a fat person on a plane? Well duh, Noone does, I'm pretty sure the fat person doesn't like being squished up against you either. If the airline designed the plane with enough space to accomodate their larger customers this wouldn't be an issue. Why don't you get angry at the airline for trying to squeeze in extra passengers instead of the fat people for simply existing? The worst thing that would happen is that everyone gets more room and the airline makes less money - sounds good to me.

Moving on to Natalia. You'll notice that she started gaining weight AFTER she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. This would make sense because one of the symptoms of the disease is an increase in appetite. She goes on to say she used this think being fat was a terrible thing but that now she is ok with it. Where in that sentence does it say: 'I have stopped caring about the health risks of my type 1 diabetes'. 'Being fat' is not going to have any effect on her diabetes - her diet and exercise regime will, But we DONT KNOW what her diet and exercise regime is like. You are just assuming her diet is bad because she is fat. Sing it with me now: fatness and unhealthiness are not the same thing.

Moving on to 'skinny preference'. Yes, I agree that every consenting adult is entitled to date and sleep with whoever they want. NOONE is forcing you to sleep with ANYONE that you don't want to. Saying 'big is beautiful' does not mean 'you have to sleep with any fat person who's interested or else you're a bigot' - I find this kind of ridiculous.

But what does it mean to say you have a 'skinny preference'? Does that mean that anyone over a certain percentage of body fat is just automatically unattractive to you? What if you meet someone, You have all the same interests you get along like a house of fire you have great banter, But that person falls just outside of your internal 'fatness threshold', Would you not consider them as a romantic partner at all? What if you meet the skinny person of your dreams, You get married, And then a decade later they have gotten fat - maybe they were diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, Who knows? Do you just automatically lose all feeling for your spouse of 10 years? Or are you able to see through the fatness to the inner skinny person that they truly are? How exactly does this work?

In conclusion, You have said that "the health implications that come along with using fat acceptance as a scapegoat for not changing health status is already very concerning" and as i have repeatedly shown, This is a gross misunderstanding of what the fat acceptance movement actually is. To quote YOUR source: "Fat acceptance is the radical notion that fat people are human beings and deserve respect", This, In a nutshell, Is what the fat acceptance movement is about and I support it. If that means that airline companies are pressured to provide more space for their customers, And that people are asked to question their dating preferences - great! I support that too.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Oaum 3 years ago
Oaum
And remember love X00; attraction.

Tho a very good combo.
Posted by Oaum 3 years ago
Oaum
But what does it mean to say you have a 'skinny preference'? Does that mean that anyone over a certain percentage of body fat is just automatically unattractive to you? What if you meet someone, You have all the same interests you get along like a house of fire you have great banter, But that person falls just outside of your internal 'fatness threshold',

This doesn't make sense.

You can be walking in town and see a good looking girl and think damn she is hot/beautiful or something but does that mean you love her?

Now I can't speak for everyone but for me atleast it's like I can see a skinny girl and think she ugly and I can see a chubby/fat girl and think she is sexy or beautiful or the other way around what I'm trying to say instead of focusing on like is she fat or she has small this or that
me and alot of people look at person as a whole and from that our weird brains determined if we found the person attractive.

Now yes there is preferences but that is mainstream media's work, (popular opinion) if you go now to Snapchat and have a look at public stories you will see that there is almost only skinny/small girls thanks to this for a lot people especially girls that are overweight that are on a lot of social media's get affected of this and feel like an outsider or that she has to get small and fit to fit in and this is where the problem is.

Sorry for bad grammar high af and not americano
Posted by mackeeper 3 years ago
mackeeper
This was a fun debate for me. I honestly wish we had a few more rounds. Down for a rematch any time.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ThoughtsandThoughts 3 years ago
ThoughtsandThoughts
olalamackeeperTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made the point, "'fat acceptance' is not the same thing as 'fat advocacy'" very early on in the debate, but pro never refuted this. This is what pro is suggesting makes fat acceptance dangerous. In round 3, pro uses highly speculative arguments and tries to prove correlation this way. The claim in round 2 that the US "founded" fat acceptance is also pretty ridiculous because it's not backed up whatsoever.

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