The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Perussi
Con (against)

Fatal Bible Flaws

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 299 times Debate No: 106859
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

(taken from The Secular Web)
DT 6:5, MT 22:37, MK 12:30, LK 10:27 Love God.

DT 6:13, PS 33:8, 34:9, 111:10, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11, PR 8:13, 16:6, 19:23, 22:4, IS 8:13, LK 12:5, 1PE 2:17 Fear God.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love.

PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.
JE 8:8 The scribes (copyists, editors, teachers) falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(Note: Not every word of God can prove true if God deceives anyone at all; teaching from the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. In other words, the first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue. Note also: Some versions use the word "persuade" rather than "deceives." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

LK 1:26-38 The angel who appears to Mary to foretell the birth of Jesus says that Jesus will be given the throne of David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and that his kingdom will never end. (None of this took place nor can it now be fulfilled.)

MT 16:28, MK 9:1, LK 9:27 Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago.
(Note: This passage and many others indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. All of his listeners are now dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus put forth in the Bible are therefore suspect.)

MK 16:17-18 A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm.
(Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and/or drinking poison; this kind of assertion negates the Bible as a useful guidebook for life. It should also be noted that the oldest manuscripts of Mark end at MK 16:8; as the footnotes to The New Oxford Annotated Bible put it, verses 9-20 cannot have been part of the original text of Mark.)


Indeed since these are true Fatal Bible Flaws, the bible is unreadable. So that brings this debate to the RULES: Prove that the bible IS READABLE, UNDERSTANDABLE by thus countering the fatal flaws as correctly listed above. There will be more fatal flaws/ mistakes in the bible as it is supposed to be perfect, and so is its god, Sorry they ain't, in which you as a debater would be required to counter as well.







dsjpk5 will not be allowed to participate in the voting process.

Perussi

Con

In the debate we are debating the meaning of the same words. I will be arguing that the Bible has no flaws. For your awareness, it is necessary to argue about what our sources are and what they mean.

*All NIV

Argument 1 Rebuttal

1 John 4:16-18
"16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

If you are christian and love Jesus there is no need to fear him unless you do something wrong. What if when you were 12 or so and slapped your mom? You'll know be severely punished, so you won't do it. This is the healthy fear christians have. If you have a good mom and you're a good kid you never fear at all, there is no need to fear.

Argument 2 Rebuttal

1 Kings 22
https://www.biblegateway.com...

What may have been going on here is that since the prophets weren't prophesying in the name of God it did matter what they were saying so god used them to take out the king. Micaiah though was prophesying in the name of God and was not targeted by the spirit.

Jeremiah 8:1-3
"1 At that time, declares the Lord, the bones of the kings and officials of Judah, the bones of the priests and prophets, and the bones of the people of Jerusalem will be removed from their graves. 2 They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will not be gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground. 3 Wherever I banish them, all the survivors of this evil nation will prefer death to life, declares the Lord Almighty."

In this chapter it is talking about people who are not following the Lord, "....the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped.".

Jeremiah 8:8, "8 How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" applies to these people and not the Lord's. Yes, the word is being falsified but it is the people's error and not the Bible's."

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
"11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

He does this to make them responsible for their "delight in wickedness" and to punish them for their wrongdoing. These people cannot be with the Lord and are punished.

It isn't God who makes their choice but them.
"10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

Key word "they".

Argument 3 Rebuttal

Ezekiel 20:21-26
"21 But the children rebelled against me: They did not follow my decrees, they were not careful to keep my laws, of which I said, "The person who obeys them will live by them," and they desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and spend my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 But I withheld my hand, and for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the wilderness that I would disperse them among the nations and scatter them through the countries, 24 because they had not obeyed my laws but had rejected my decrees and desecrated my Sabbaths, and their eyes lusted after their parents" idols. 25 So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live; 26 I defiled them through their gifts"the sacrifice of every firstborn"that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord."

God talking about punishing the Israelites by destroying their nation with bad laws.

Argument 4 Rebuttal

Luke 1:32-33
"32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."

Luke 9:21-36
"Jesus Predicts His Death
21 Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. 22 And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

23 Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

27 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

The Transfiguration
28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. 31 They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32 Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. 33 As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters"one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." (He did not know what he was saying.)

34 While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." 36 When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves and did not tell anyone at that time what they had seen."

Kingdom also means "the spiritual reign or authority of God", not just something like a literal place. (google definition too) They saw god in "his glory", verse 32. Therefore verse 27 was fulfilled.

Argument 5 Rebuttal

Mark 16:15-18
"14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Jesus is talking to the disciples and not all christians.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Oh for pete"s sake. See that"s why christians like you do NOT have the ability to think, reason, rationalize, use common sense, use logic because god religion, the bible and you does not require a single ounce of it. "I will be arguing that the Bible has no flaws." How stupid are you? I mean where exactly do they grow you for specimen samples?

"*All NIV" Well the NIV is an abomination. So that"s a super massive fatal flaw right there. When you get the correct version... Go from there and contact me again, but not until then.
Even so that"s proof right there that your bible has flaws because your god would never use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication possible with translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies with dead languages after dead languages with absolutely no possible way to trace things back to the original so you, the pope, all pastors, all priests, all ministers, all rabbis, ev-ry-bo-dy gets it wrong. So since this is true, your bible is not evidence of any kind. To further prove it, you prove that the version you use is the proper version to use and that ev-ry-bo-dy understands it and that is not misinterpreted in any way as you clearly do. K?
Perussi

Con

As no biblical flaws were suggested in Pro's round 2 I pass this round.

I cannot rebut a non-existent argument.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Perussi 9 months ago
Perussi
You just feel the need to compensate for how hard I destroyed you under your rules.

The bigger you are, the harder you fall.
Posted by Perussi 9 months ago
Perussi
Ummm....

I'm pretty sure you started the hostility with your round 2 dude.

I've got no beef with you, I'm not angry, but I have no patience for the type of nonsence people like you produce.

You want to "debate" but are only looking for a shouting match, you do this for the buzz, you feel so awesome posting "fatal bible flaws" for everyone to see. You're mean and green from the start. I mean, I knew you'd pull this crap, it's so sad. Your anger is pointless.

You need some Jesus.
Posted by backwardseden 9 months ago
backwardseden
christians are always "angry" which is what their god has freely admitted to as their god causes wars, hate, evil, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy - from a supreme deity, which is what you believe in as their god has freely admitted to... well guess how many AND instilled man with so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going you for believing in him. Since you refuse to continue with this friendly debate on friendly and just terms, it is now over. You had your chance. You blew it. Bye.
Posted by Perussi 9 months ago
Perussi
Why did you choose to fight and not expect to possibly defeated?

Lol, you're so angry.
Posted by backwardseden 10 months ago
backwardseden
Didn't read it. You follow the instructions as stated in RD2 or I do not pay attention to you. I don't live for you. You pay attention to me. I do not pay attention to fuzzy armsloths like you. Oh and oh yeah RD1 verses had NOTHING to do with the NIV version, so that only shows how utterly stupid and ignorant you truly are. I'm so very glad I made your day better. Please do not post me again unless you have something intelligent to say.
Posted by Perussi 10 months ago
Perussi
You can throw any "flaw" you want at me, I can rebut them all, because the bible has no flaws, the christian god exists and his word is perfect.

You think there'd be at least one mistake in a book this big, huh?
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