The Instigator
Republicrat20
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Athias
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Female should be treated equal to their male counterparts

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2019 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,113 times Debate No: 119768
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)

 

Republicrat20

Pro

Hey fellow debaters. I am searching for an opponent to take the Con side that Women should be treated equal to Men.

This debate will consist of 4 rounds.

Round 1 will be Acceptance/greeting. You can also put here anything you want to clarify such as from which standpoint you will have.
***Please do not put any arguments in this round.

Round 2- Opening argument

Round 3- Rebuttals

Round 4- Closing arguments

I look forward to this debate! Thank you!
Athias

Con

Hello, Republicrat20. I too am looking forward to this debate. I presume that we'll be arguing about said treatment politically, Economically, Socially, Culturally, Etc. I await you opening argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Republicrat20

Pro

I am going to argue the fact that women should be treated equal to men in every aspect of today's society. Throughout history, There are many examples where women were discriminated against simply for being female. It is wrong that someone is constantly being treated as inferior simply because of their gender. It is appalling that women were not granted the right to vote in America until 1920. It is completely unfair that women did not have the same opportunities as men in the U. S military until 2016. Furthermore, It is absolutely disgusting that marital rape was not a crime in all 50 states until 1993.
The examples I mentioned above are just few of many cases where women were discriminated against by their male counterparts in the past. Below I will list examples showing how women are still being treated as inferior in 2018.

The Overwhelming statistics on rape and sexual assault against females. I decided to begin with this one first because it is the most disturbing one of them all. I can't help but become enraged when I research the statistics on sexual assault and I want to go ahead and get it out of the way, So here it goes. According to the national sexual violence resource center one in five women will be RAPED at some point during their lives. This should absolutely blow your mind. One of the most heinous crimes known to man will be committed against 20% of our women. We have to do something about this. One of the ways we can help victims of sexual assault is by putting their perpetrators behind bars. However, Studies show that only 28% of rapes are reported to the police. Victims of rape and attempted rape who did not report to the police did not report for a number of reasons. 43% of victims did not report because they thought that nothing could be done, 27% thought it was a private matter, 12% were afraid of the police response, And 12% felt it was not important enough to report. Rape is a violent, Horrendous crime that should be punished severely. In some countries, Rape is so common, It is to be expected. If you don't understand how serious this is, Then you are a part of the problem.
The unfair treatment of women across the globe. Fortunately, America has "evolved" into a country where women have nearly all the same freedoms and rights as men do. However, Some countries have not yet caught up. There are certain countries that treat their women as second class citizens. An example of this would be countries who practice Sharia Law. Examples of these countries include Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Brunei, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan and Mauritania. Under Sharia Law, Wives can be beaten, Sexual intercourse with prepubescent girls is permitted, Wives must submit to their husbands, Women are deemed lacking in intelligence, Raping female captives is permitted, And women are required to cover themselves from head to toe in public. I don't even know the right words to say here. These practices are nothing short of cruel and disgusting.
Women make significantly less money than their male counterparts. In today's world, Women make up nearly half of the workforce. However, In 2017, Female full-time, Year-round workers made only 80. 5 cents for every dollar earned by men, A gender wage gap of 20 percent. It is wrong that someone with the same qualifications and same experience makes considerably less than another person, Simply because of their gender. Https://www. Aauw. Org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/
It was 1976 before the first group of women were accepted into the military. However, It wasn't until 2013 women were allowed to fight in front-line combat. As of 2016, Women can have any job as a man in the armed forces. While I am thrilled women are finally being seen as equal in society, Many still stay that women have no place in combat. I hear all the time that women should not be allowed to fight in combat because we are genetically weaker than men. This is absolutely ridiculous. If a woman is able to do the job and keep up with other soldiers, She should definitely be able to fight in combat. Some women are every bit as strong as a man. Think about Serena Williams, Rhonda Rousey, And Margaret Thatcher. That being said, Women should be able to serve our country without the fear of being assaulted. According to a 2013 pentagon report, Between one-fifth and one-half of female veterans were sexually harassed while on active duty. These statistics are extremely high and saddening.
Women of all ages are, In fact, More likely than men to live below the poverty line. According to a report from the Institute for Women's Policy Research, 15. 5% of women live in poverty compared with 11. 9 percent of men across the United States.
Women pay more for common household items than men do. Women's products such as razors, Shaving cream, Deodorant, Shampoo, Conditioner, And socks often cost significantly more than the exact same men"s products. It is common knowledge amongst us girls that if we buy the men's products, We will save money. I wonder why two products that are exactly the same would cost different amounts? I highly doubt the color pink is more expensive.

Basically what I am trying to get across is this. I am a woman. I deserve every right, Freedom, Privilege, And even consequence as any man. Please explain why we shouldn't?
Athias

Con

Okay. First let me start with the reasons women and men shouldn't be treated equally. Men and women are different by reason of their roles in reproduction. A difference which by no means is subtle, And manifests in the social interactions between the sexes. It can be stated that the physical differences, Including those of the brain, Are manifestations of these reproductive roles. And through our interactions with each other as well as our environment, We've established culture--which by nature is utilitarian. Now our roles in reproduction while equally necessary, Are not of equal value. Assuming no issues with fertility, A woman's ability to reproduce is far more scarce than that of a man's. She has just about 400 eggs over her life time, Not to mention a 36-44 week gestation period. During that gestation period, She also faces many risks, One which includes death. Furthermore, Her fertility monotonically decreases after the age of 19, Where her fertility is highest. In contrast, A man can produce 525 Billion sperm cells during his life time. He has no gestation period, And faces no prominent risks. As long as he has an erection (and sometimes not even that, ) and his sperm count isn't unusually low, He can fertilize any woman who's ovulating. Not to mention, His virility doesn't decrease monotonically over time.

Now what does this have to do with equal treatment? Everything. Politics didn't start out as the pageant it is today, Or the medieval intrigue one watches on Game of Thrones. It consisted primarily of disputes among warring tribes. Now if I am a Chieftan, And there are 30 men, And 30 women in my tribe, Whom do I risk? Do I send 25 women off to war or parlay and 25 men? If I do that, Then my tribe has only five chances at reproduction every 36-44 weeks. With the sophisticated medical technology back then, I'm sure infant mortality rates or the mother's survival weren't issues? (I jest. ) So what if I send 25 women off to war, And just 10 men? The result is the same. Reproduction occurs at the woman's pace not the man's. She gestates. So if I decide to send 25 men to war, And just 10 women, My tribe now has 20 chances at reproduction because 20 women were left behind. The five men remaining can inseminate and fertilize the remaining 20 women. Do you see the logic?

Now Athias, We're not "warring tribes" anymore (? ) Why would we hold on to this antiquated logic? Because the politics isn't the premise; reproduction is. Women's reproduction is still a scarce resource. And this manifests in many other ways. For example, Why are women more selective in choosing mates? Why are women's bodies a composite of sexual parts, And therefore idealized, Or sometimes idolized? Why do men tend to be more aggressive against other males when pursuing female mates? We treat each other different because we are different. I know your argument is normative--i. E. Women "should" be treated equally. This presumes a homogeneous set of values to which all individuals must consign themselves. How do I see you as "equal" when I stare at you and see differences? How does this not manifest conceptually? How do I not see you as different when your appearance and behavior are distinct from my own? You say that we should, But the utility derived from being treated equal is being treated equal. It doesn't change that we're different and our conscious and subconscious acknowledgement of this will play itself out. We treat children differently because we acknowledge our differences. Why wouldn't we do the same as it concerns men and women?

Now there are a couple of points of yours I want to address because I don't want to leave it be until I rebut your rebuttal, So I'll try to be as concise as possible:

(1) "It is appalling that women were not granted the right to vote in America until 1920. "

This is patently false. Women had the right to vote in the United States, In the Western territories, During the Western Frontier. The reason was that most of the West was settled by prostitutes. The right of women to vote wasn't repealed until the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887 in the government's campaign against the Mormons. And to add insult to injury, Women had this right to vote without being conscripted to military service.

(2) "It is completely unfair that women did not have the same opportunities as men in the U. S military until 2016. "

Women couldn't pass the physical tests until the standards were lowered in 2016.

(3) "Furthermore, It is absolutely disgusting that marital rape was not a crime in all 50 states until 1993. "

This cuts both ways. Sex was deemed a conjugal right. A woman could not deny her husband sex, And a man could not deny his wife sex. There was actually a case in India where a woman sued her husband for denying her sex.

(4) "According to the national sexual violence resource center one in five women will be RAPED at some point during their lives. "

The statistics are skewed and examine a non-representative sample--if I remember correctly, Just two college campuses were examined. The CDC also included "drunken penetration" as a standard which constitutes sexual assault. The actual statistic is about 1 in 52. That's not great, But it's not exaggerated either.

(5) "There are certain countries that treat their women as second class citizens. An example of this would be countries who practice Sharia Law. "

Sharia law doesn't treat women as second class citizens. It treats them as human "protectorates. " They submit to their husbands because their husbands are responsible for them. This cuts both ways. He has authority, But he also has responsibility. But to delve into Sharia, It requires a far more in depth discussion.

(6. ) Women make significantly less money than their male counterparts. . .

Women are not paid less because of their being women--at least, No evidence of that has been discovered yet. Women who are paid different are paid different for several reasons: (1) Women on average work fewer hours, (2) Women are more likely to exchange increases in raw wages for benefits (3) Women tend towards fields which pay less, (4) Women with identical education, Marital status, And age actually earn 3% more than their male counter-parts, (5) there's a motherhood gap, Not a female gap (6) women have more temporal flexibility, As pointed out by Claudia Goldin, In fields where high yields are earned with reduced temporal flexibility. The wage gap exists, Just not for the reasons feminists offer.

(7) "Many still stay that women have no place in combat. I hear all the time that women should not be allowed to fight in combat because we are genetically weaker than men. This is absolutely ridiculous. . . . Some women are every bit as strong as a man. "

Take this into consideration: the average teenage boy is just as strong as the average adult female. It's informs how a grown man can fend off two female officers seeking his compliance; it's how a high school boys team, All who are under the age of 15, Can defeat the U. S. Women's National team at an athletic contest like soccer. Of course the generalizations aren't applicable in all individual cases, But you've got to admit that the generalization in this case is quite convincing. If I am an organization, And I have a choice between male combatants and female combatants, My best bet would be on the male combatants.

(8) "Women's products such as razors, Shaving cream, Deodorant, Shampoo, Conditioner, And socks often cost significantly more than the exact same men"s products. "

Men and women's demands for hygienic products differ; women have a larger demand for hygienic products and control for 80% of consumer spending; therefore, Their products cost more. The solution is rather simple, And you've already alluded to it--purchase male products. If the products are the "exact same" as you suggest, Then the transition should be seamless. But why haven't women moved to male products? Because the products are different.
Debate Round No. 2
Republicrat20

Pro

Alright you began your argument by stating that "Men and women are different by reason of their roles in reproduction". Yes, Men and women are different biologically and physically but I am making the argument that men and women should be treated the same, Not that they are the same.

"Women's reproduction is still a scarce resource. "

The argument about reproduction is actually a decent one. The only thing is the world we live in today, We have absolutely no trouble reproducing. I'm fact, There are over 4 babies born worldwide every second. Each year, The United States adds another 3. 1 million people to its population. The United States is already overpopulated in the sense that we are consuming our national ecological resources at an unsustainable rate. If we lived in a time where humans were at danger of going extinct I could see your argument being valid, But we don't. In fact, In some countries the government actually limits the amount of children a woman can have. Therefore your argument holds no water.

How do I see you as "equal" when I stare at you and see differences?

The fact that you stare at women and see differences is your problem, Not theirs. The fact that Jill has breasts and hips doesn't mean Jack should treat her as a sexual object. Whether you be male or female, You body belongs to YOU, And by no means should anybody be able to use your biological differences as an argument as to why you can't be treated as an equal.

"We treat children differently because we acknowledge our differences"

This is an extremely bad analogy. Children have brains that are not developed. They are easily controlled and need to be protected. This is not true for women. We are every bit as capable as a man and should be treated that way.

You stated that women were indeed allowed to vote before 1920. This is, In fact, True. However, The places where women were allowed to vote were very, Very few. In fact the only states being Wyoming, Colorado, And Utah. The 19th amendment wasn't added to the Constitution until 1920. At this time, Women's right to vote was recognized in all 50 states.

"Women couldn't pass the physical tests until the standards were lowered in 2016. "

Whether the standards were lowered for women to be able to fight in ground combat or not, Women should still be able to have the same opportunities in the military as men do. Women have been active in the Russian army throughout history performing various functions, Either joining in disguise or tacitly accepted by various corps. Maria Bochkareva, A famous female colonel, Was decorated three times and promoted to senior NCO rank, Headed the Death Brigade in 1917. The French have embraced female soldiers in the military since 1939, And in 1972, Women were given equal status to male soldiers. Valerie Andre, A neurosurgeon, Was the first French women to achieve the rank of three-star general. She served in Indochina and became a helicopter pilot, Making her the first female to fly a helicopter in combat.
You see, Women have so much to offer our armed forces. Women can be every bit as capable as a man and they prove it everyday.

I stated that marital rape was not officially made illegal until 1993. Your rebuttal was that men were just as much obligated to sex as women. Do you realize that while sex was a "right" to each person in a marriage, The number of women who forced their husbands to have sex is more than likely very, Very few. I am aware that men can indeed be raped by a woman but I could not find a single account where a man discloses being raped by his wife. However, I've heard story after story of helpless wives being raped over and over again by their drunken husbands it is disgusting. To make it worse, There is absolutely nothing they could do about it considering the law didn't recognize rape among spouses. Being sexually assaulted literally tears your world apart. PTSD haunts you for years after. You can't be touched by any man (or woman) without flinching). However, At least you have the comfort in knowing they can/will be prosecuted, Generally to the full extent of the law. Women before 1993 didn't have that. Not to mention, They lived with their rapists and had to interact with them daily. This is a nightmare. So please, Don't try and argue that men had it just as bad. It isn't true.

Your claim that 1 in 52 women will be raped in their lifetime will be raped instead of 1 in 5 because of a biased college survey. You are being duped by sources such as the Huffington Post and The Daily Beast. I am getting my information from sources such as the national sexual violence resource center. The statistics come from actual reporting of this heinous crime, Not "two college campuses". This doesn't even account for the rapes that go unreported. Please give me your source that states 1 in 52 either in the comments or your next argument. I'd like to read it.

Sharia law doesn't treat women as second class citizens. It treats them as human "protectorates""

Regardless of what you call it Sharia Law endangers and belittles women. Little girls as young as six years old are being married off to grown men. Six year old girls are not even close to being matured physically. Can you imagine how painful it must be for a child's tiny vagina being penetrated by a full grown penis? Can you even begin to fathom how scared a little girl feels in that position? Furthermore, Sharia Law allows for the rape of a woman simply for not being fully covered from head to toe. If a woman reports a rape she risks being stoned to death for adultery. I know you have to have some sympathy for these women. A woman shouldn't have to submit to her husband in this aspect and he shouldn't have responsibility of her. She is a grown up and is fully capable of taking care of herself if she were allowed to.

There are so many sources that state many different things involving the wage gap. However, One fact remains. When women who have worked full-time year around are compared to men in the exact same scenario, Woman make around 80 cents for every dollar earned by a man. Everybody has their own opinion about the wage gap but the facts remain. The gender wage gap favors men by approximately 20%. End of story.

I do appreciate you for having this debate with me but I really hope you are devil's advocating. Some of your statements are absolutely gut wrenching. We should always consider humans dignity and worth. We are all entitled to equality and non-discrimination, It means no races, No gender, No skin colour, And no nationality are superior or inferior!
Athias

Con

Yes, Men and women are different biologically, And physically, But I am making the argument that men ad women should be treated the same, Not that that they are the same.

I've already acknowledged that your argument is normative--that is, Being treated the same ought to be the case. However, It is a concept that has utility only in its mere statement. We are not the same; therefore, We do not treat each other the same. This isn't necessarily bad as being treated differently is not the same as being treated unfairly.

The argument about reproduction is actually a decent one. The only thing is the world we live in today, We have absolutely no trouble reproducing.

The argument isn't focused on the trouble of reproducing; it's focused on the scarcity of reproductive contribution. Once a male inseminates and fertilizes a female, his job is done. It therefore was more practical to risk males in politics and combat. If you risked women in politics and combat, You'd be risking not only half of your population, But the future of that population were they to be with child.

If we lived in a time where humans were at danger of going extinct, I could see your argument being valid, But we don't. Therefore your argument holds not water.

While true that advanced technology has facilitated population growth, Higher life expectancy, And reduction in the risk of entering the labor force, The risk, However diminished it may be, Is still primarily associated with females. Should advance technology allow for the gestation of a fetus without its mother, The culture of risking women may become more prevalent. But until then, I don't see this imperative going away.

The fact that you stare at women and see differences is your problem. Not theirs.

It's not a problem at all. It just is.

The fact that Jill has breasts and hips doesn't mean Jack should treat her as a sexual object.

What else would it mean? Breasts are used to nourish a baby once it's born. Hips are an indication of woman's fertility and use in bearing children. Human beings are sexual. Typically, Jill is the object of Jack's attraction, And Jack is the object of Jill's attraction. The difference is that Jill's body plays a larger role in reproduction. This role makes her body into a composite of sexual parts. This is however not to be confused with object-sexuality. Jack is not treating Jill as some inanimate object by lusting for her--far from it. If anything, Males tend to liken inanimate objects to females, Not the other way around (e. G. Cars. )

This is an extremely bad analogy. Children have brains that are not developed. They are easily controlled and need to be protected. This is not true for women.

Actually it's not. I've given you the most compelling reason women need to be protected. Furthermore, There have been studies conducted resulting in finding similar psychological profiles, Particularly as it relates to fear, Anxiety, And embarrassment, Between women and children. I can cite these source upon request or in the comments section.

And if development differences in the brain are the standard by which we determine differences among human beings, Then it suffices to state that there are differences in how the male and female brains have developed particularly in the top and mid regions of the brain, Respectively. Females have more activity in the mid region, Which tends toward emotion, And males have more activity in the top region, Which tends toward reason.

You stated that women were indeed allowed to vote before 1920. This is, In fact, True. However, The placces where women were allowed to vote were very, Very few. In fact the only states being Wyoming, Colorado, And Utah.

That isn't true. Women were allowed to vote in California, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Etc. There were few states in the West which didn't allow women to vote.

Whether the standards were lowered for women to be able to fight in ground combat or not, Women should still be able to have the same opportunities in the military as men do.

The standards were in fact lowered. Women having the same opportunities as men in the military is contingent on the military's goals. I'm not denying some women can just as there are some men who can't. If the military believes that it has an advantage by inducting more men than women into the service, Then that is its prerogative.

I stated that marital rape was not officialy made illegal until 1993. Do y realize that while sex was a right to each person in a marriage, The number of women who forced their husbands to have sex is more than likely very, Very few.

Did I presume incorrectly that your statement was submitted in context to this debate's subject? That is, It would serve as an example of how women weren't treated equally? It may very well be the case that women had it worse, But you stated that it disgusted you that marital rape remained legal until 1993. As far as I know, It was legal equally to both men and women. And we can dispense with any discussion on the effects of rape. I have no intention of arguing against them. My intention is only to argue of that the disparate incidents of marital rape between the sexes has no bearing on the legal scope on former conjugal rights.

You claim that 1 in 52 women will be raped in their lifetime will be raped instead of 1 in 5 because of a biased college survey.

It's not a claim. It's hard to be misled by publications like the HP and DB since I don't read them. I can offer my citations in the comments section.

Regardless of what you call it, Sharia Law endangers and belittles women

Exploring Sharia Law requires more focus than I have characters. Another time.

However, One fact remains. When women who have worked full-time year around re compared to men in the same exact scenario, Women make around 80 cents for every dollar earned by a man. Everybody has their own opinion about the wage gap but the facts remain. The gender wage gap favors men by approximately 20%. End of story.

I went to university for Mathematics and Economics. I've studied the relevant material. Yes there is a gap, But it can controlled for when one takes education, Hours, Time flexibility, Parenthood, Preferences, Etc. Into consideration. Chauvinistic discrimination has yet to be discovered.

We are entitled to equality and non-discrimination.

No, We're not. We discriminate all the time. It may just be that you don't like the reasons others discriminate.
Debate Round No. 3
Republicrat20

Pro

My opponent keeps providing excuses for the unequal treatment of women. The fact is globally, Women have fewer opportunities for economic participation than men, Less access to basic and higher education, Greater health and safety risks, And less political representation. This is a problem that needs to be fixed. Modern day feminism makes the actual women's rights advocates look like a joke. Guaranteeing the rights of women and giving them opportunities to reach their full potential is critical not only for attaining gender equality, But also for meeting a wide range of international development goals. Empowered women and girls contribute to the health and productivity of their families, Communities, And countries, Creating a ripple effect that benefits everyone. While the world has achieved progress towards gender equality and women’s empowerment, Women and girls continue to suffer discrimination and violence in every part of the world.


Bringing light to the issue is the first step in solving the problem. That is what I have done in this debate. By providing you with factual statistics, I hope that the individual reading this has become more knowledgeable of the problem that women all over the world face every day.


Thank you to Omar for accepting this debate and providing challenging arguments, To our readers that will read both sides of the argument, And to the voters who will vote honestly and fairly!

Athias

Con

To sum up our arguments thus far, I'll provide a concise synopsis:

1. My opponent asserted the normative argument that women ought to be treated equally, I. E. Treated like men. She provides no justification or rationale for its utility other than its mere statement. I offered that women's reproductive utility is far too significant--in that it's relatively scarce--for them to be treated like men.

2. My opponent stated that she was appalled that women weren't allowed to vote before 1920. I refuted this by pointing out that women had the right to vote in the Western Territories during the Western Frontier, Which occurred before 1920's. She conceded the point and claimed that women were allowed to vote in just a very few amount of states. I refuted that as well by pointing out the more than few states where women were allowed to vote.

3. My opponent asserted that it was unfair women had fewer opportunities in the military until 2016 while failing to consider the context. I pointed out that most women couldn't pass the physical tests until 2016, When the standards were lowered. Her argument was premised on numerical representation, Rather than, Once again, Utility. I then pointed out that it was the military's prerogative to choose their servicemen in accordance to their goals.

4. My opponent offered that she was disgusted that marital-rape remained legal until 1993. I pointed out that the scope of conjugal rights didn't acknowledge rape between spouses given that sex between them was an entitlement. She then offered a citation of disparate incidents between males and females while failing to point out its relevance to the legal quality with which she was disgusted. I then pointed out that the capacity to rape one's spouse, Be it male or female, Was "equal. "

5. My opponent cited a skewed statistic to repeat the claim that 1 in 5 women are likely to be raped. Not only did I point out this skew, But I also provided a more reliable statistic by the United States Department of Justice which demonstrated that the actual number was 1 in 52.

6. My opponent cited countries which practice Sharia law as examples of women's being treated as second class citizens. I contradicted her statement by asserting that women are treated as "human protectorates, " and the authority men have over them is associated with the responsibility men have for them. I failed to expand upon this due to character limits, Time limits, And the focus it requires.

7. My opponent asserted that it's wrong for women with the same qualifications as men to be paid less than their male counterparts and cites the wage gap. She fails to once again consider context. I pointed out that the wage gap can be explained, Even justified, Once it's controlled for by education, Time flexibility, Preferences, Field of work, Parental status, Etc. I also pointed out that women with identical education, Skill, And parental status make 3% more than their male counterparts. (Consider this: if women were being paid less for the same production provided by men, Why are they not being hired more frequently? Wouldn't the profit-maximizing capitalist hire the best production at a cheaper price? 19. 5 cents less an hour to be precise? And anyone versed in economics would know that this would cause a rightward shift in the demand curve, Assuming labor supply remains the same, Resulting in an increased wage. )

8. My opponent cited statistics on the feminization of poverty. I didn't address this due to character limitations.

9. My opponent cited the "pink tax. " This argument is utterly inane given that hygienic products for females not only yield a higher cost of production, But yield a high consumer demand. If in fact male and female hygienic products were the exact same, The solution would be simple: purchase male products. The shift to male products of course would increase demand for them, Which would result in an increase price. (Either way, One is going to pay more eventually. ) Women control for 80% of consumer spending, And the price of products will reflect this.

10. My opponent asserted that women having breasts and hips doesn't mean that they should be objectified. I claim that it is the exact reason they are objectified because said parts, I. E. Breasts and hips, Have reproductive utility.

11. My opponent stated that women's biological differences shouldn't be taken into account when considering equality, While disregarding the logic on which that argument is premised, When declaring that children and adults should be treated differently because biological of differences. Enough said.

12. She proposed that we are entitled to equality and non-discrimination while failing to propose how we would disregard the differences which manifest among us and the subjective values they afford each of us. She stated equality only to state equality. She hasn't demonstrated how this produces any sort of utility outside of saying that we're equal.

13. Probably her most prominent failure in this debate: she referred to me as "Omar. " That and that alone is enough for her to lose this debate, :)

Essentially, My opponent has not provided much of a justification to the reason females ought to be treated equal. She disregards context, Competence, Preferences, And, Most of all, Differences. Equality is an asserted entitlement with no moral utility. It provides only privileges to mitigate social, Economic, Political, And military failures. I on the other have provided arguments acknowledging the differences between males and females while delineating the utility in these differences. In my arguments, I've made no allusions to an ideal which alienates our essence, But captures and rationalizes it, Namely our roles in reproduction. Our differences inform neither superiority nor inferiority. We are a binary which provides an essential service to the furtherance of our species.

Thank you Republicrat20 for your candor and respectful conduct. And thank you to the interested readers. Vote well.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
@Athias
Sorry for the late reply. This site doesn't tend to notify my when someone says something in the debate comments, Even if I check the box. Eh, For arguments If feel I am being too biased on or lacking in something for my justification, I 'try to vote neutral for the points, But still like talking about what I thought of the debate.

Hm, I wouldn't say that you are wrong that I voted based on my own thoughts, But I'm not sure that is wrong either. My thoughts on the debate were prompted and based around what the two of you said in the debate (I think). And if people are biased, This is natural of people. They have preferences and think to themselves that they find certain arguments or statements to be more effective and true than others (Though I think this can vary widely from person to person)
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
@Chief_Sunboyz: I thought I did, Too. (And voting notwithstanding, I did present the stronger arguments. ) Unfortunately, You weren't a voter.

@Leaning: Yeah, You did skew the arguments. You voted based on that which you already thought, Not arguments presented by either Republicrat20 or myself. But I suppose it doesn't matter much now.

@Republicrat20: It was nice debating you. Should another interesting topic arise, We should debate again.
Posted by Republicrat20 3 years ago
Republicrat20
@dustryder my approach to the argument was showing how women are not treated equal and also reasons why they should be. I wanted to shed light to the issue 😁
Posted by dustryder 3 years ago
dustryder
Going on a tirade on the current and historical mistreatment of females is no argument for why they should be treated equally to males. If you want to argue that females historically and presently have been unfairly treated compared to males, The topic needs to be changed
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
RFD
Sorry to both, I'm going to horribly skew your arguments, Probably.

Yeah, Rape is bad.
My hope and perception though is that normal people don't advocate for rape.

Who cares about reproduction in regards to war in modern America?

I think I saw Surgeon say something in the comments about equality of outcome as opposed to equality of rights, He has a point I 'think. Makes me think about people arguing about what justice is.

I lean toward Cons arguments about the wage gap.

Marital rape is messed up and I hope/perceive normal people see it that way as well.

Hygiene products a problem of capitalism more than gender?

Eh, If there is a difference between men and women, They are going to be treated differently in some circumstances. If I treated them 'equally, I'd ask a guy on a date. I'm not going to do that.

Military,
Hey, Not quite 'equal if PRT standards are lowered, But then maybe the problem is in definition of fair/equal. Anyway, I feel military question could be a debate in itself and that both sides would have points. Real answer end up being a synthesis of both sides.
But packs in the marines are heavy and back breaking work is done, Made easier if physically stronger.
Women do have more hygiene needs than men (I think), A problem if as a soldier a person is stuck in a foxhole for months and months on end.
True, Women in the air force, Israel, Any MMA female could probably kick my a$$, It'd be easier to make everything fair/equal if we started a new country rather than edit our current one. No one quite agrees on definitions or contexts of words and values. I do hear a lot of people arguing we should treat ADD and Asperger's people different.

I'm not convinced though that men/women's minds 'that different. Actually unsure now, Would I treat women different because of culture, Or gender? Anyway, By the end, I still think women should be treated as men's equals. But that there is confusion on what exactly that means so, A draw i
Posted by Chief_Sunboyz 3 years ago
Chief_Sunboyz
@Athias
won this imo. While i might not agree with his position I have to admit that he provided a better argument overall
Posted by John_C_1812_II 3 years ago
John_C_1812_II
@Athias
It is a little disappointing that you missed the big one. "The unfair treatment of woman across the globe. Fortunately, America has "evolved" into a country where woman have nearly all the same freedoms and rights as a men do. "
A constitutional separation can look like discrimination as it is based on two things. The first specification is basic principle, Man and woman are a basic principle, And the second guideline is Legal Precedent Military obligation is to protect the United States Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. Obligation to legal precedent of Constitutional principle for right is not the same as obtainment of legal precedent for right.
At no point did Rebublicrat20 cite were woman as a united state became a counterpart to United State Constitutional representation. All three points brought up as matters of debate are accusations that all men must be connected to as a united state. One: Woman"s exclusion to defend the Military United states Constitutional obligation. Two: A woman"s Right to Vote on a President. A man who sits for the future of all men before the United States Constitution, Under oath. Three: Marital rape cannot take place as basic principle in marriage it becomes physical abuse, Assault, Attempted murder by the legal precedent of signed sexual consent. There is a legal wrong that takes place, It however is not legally described as a rape. In order to understand a common defense to the general welfare it can be addressed as assault to attempted murder. A married woman is raped when the sexual intercourse is not consensual, And not with her legally bound spouse. It is only morally rape and translated to something else.
Posted by John_C_1812_II 3 years ago
John_C_1812_II
No offence meant Republicat20. Can to tell in whole truth how all woman are identical to all men as a united state? First in a constitutional order woman must set themselves equal to all woman. This is the legal precedent that is mistaken with interpretation of marriage as precedent, A union of two citizen creating couples, Marriage. With politics a public union of common defense and general welfare, President and Prasedera.

"Basically what a woman is trying to get across is this. As a woman. A person deserves every Untied State Constitutional right, Freedom, Liberty, And consequence as men who are created equal as basic principle in a legal precedent which holds them under oath of whole truth before a demonstration of abilities in Constitutional Principle. Please explain why woman shouldn"t?

You mean a woman should be able to constitutional separate herself from all other woman by a description like Prasedera of the United States of America?

Woman as a united state to form the perfect union do not appear to be interested in the precedent side of the obligation of setting whole truth before the general welfare and constitutional principle.
If law were to be equally enforced many woman would still not have a civil right to vote. The right would be lost. Keep in mind it would not be just all woman either, As many men would have forfeit the same constitutional civil right. The Civil Right to vote in a majority of all woman would be lost due to connections to criminal perjury, And other felony crime.
Posted by Surgeon 3 years ago
Surgeon
You seem to be arguing for equality of outcome as opposed to equality of rights. Every free economic actor should expect equality of rights, But by definition that means equal outcomes are not achieved. Different talents, Interests, Drive, Ambition etc etc, Even attractiveness all influence economic and social outcomes.

But this obviscated by the canard and over generalizations about for example the gender pay gap. There is a gender pay gap for many, Many reasons, And very low down on it will be sexism which will indeed exist, But have less influence on the numbers than opposite effects such as opposed to preferential hiring and promotional practices in favor of women.

3rd wave feminism is so desperate. After we achieved equality of rights, Feminists expected their spreadsheets to show 50:50 on every measure. When that didn"t happen and their theories were exposed as over simplistic and naive, They have instead resorted to lies and distortions to push a false narrative. But it is now a mockery of itself, A middle class women"s racket designed to feather their own nests. They do not care for working class women, And only talk about inequality (as they see it) in influential middle class life: law, Politics, Journalism, Business. When did they last argue for equality of outcome on oil rigs, Sewage treatment, High wire electrical maintenance? Or are the dirty dangerous jobs only for men?

Not all women, But most make certain life choices, Have certain limitations, Have certain talents. This is the reason they are where they are. Nothing should stop any single woman doing whatever they wish to legally. But in general unless the system is fixed against men (and to some extent it is) equality can ot be achieved, Nor is it desirable.
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
Okay, So it seems as though my citations were the source of the problem. In that case I will have to cite them in some other form. The citation for the 1 in 52 statistic can be found by entering "1 in 52 Mark Perry" on your Google search bar. It will be the first result.

As for the citations supporting the identical psychological profiles between women and children, They can be found in "Gender differences in emotion expression in children: A meta-analytic review. Psychological Bulletin, " "The neural correlates of sex differences in emotional reactivity and emotion regulation. Human Brain Mapping" and "Gender differences in self-conscious emotional experience: A meta-analysis. Psychological Bulletin"

Not everything I wanted to state made it since I had to oversimplify my argument in order to post it. But enough of it is there, So I'll live with it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
Republicrat20AthiasTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.