The Instigator
AZZhang
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
catdog33233
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Feminism Overrated?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,344 times Debate No: 118537
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

AZZhang

Con

In recent years especially, Feminists have been seen as angry women who can't stand men and can thus use feminism as a platform to project their hate and have a reason for it. This is completely untrue. Feminism is about gender equality between men and women, And the opposing of society's stereotypes of both genders. Feminism is NOT overrated. It is not about asking every woman to quit being a household wife, To instead dump their husbands and run for president. It is not about sending out the message that all men should be hated. It is not about being ungrateful for all that they have had. It is about protecting both genders in breach of better society ideas. It's about saying that it's okay for a woman to be in politics, Or value a career over a man. It is about saying that men do not have to be seen as strong all the time, That they are allowed moments of weakness. If men do not feel the pressure to be strong and dominant, Then women need not be weak and submissive. It's about equality- equal pay for men and women who do the same job and excel at it the same, Equal love for both a housewife and a career-driven woman. Feminism is about being who you are without society's judgement.
catdog33233

Pro

"In recent years especially, Feminists have been seen as angry women who can't stand men and can thus use feminism as a platform to project their hate and have a reason for it. This is completely untrue. Feminism is about gender equality between men and women, And the opposing of society's stereotypes of both genders. "
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=Uj3kSyJjedg 2:08

"And the opposing of society's stereotypes of both genders. Feminism is NOT overrated. It is not about asking every woman to quit being a household wife, To instead dump their husbands and run for president. "
Proof or anything to backup your claim?

" It is not about sending out the message that all men should be hated. "
Like making up a wage gap? The resturant where men are charged extra for being men. A woman dumped bleach on men's penises for "menspreading". THIS is not sending a message?

" It is not about being ungrateful for all that they have had. It is about protecting both genders in breach of better society ideas. It's about saying that it's okay for a woman to be in politics"
Bleach protection! Now with %100 more pain and acid! If women wanted to do politics they would.

" Or value a career over a man. "
I thought it wasnt about hating men

"It is about saying that men do not have to be seen as strong all the time, That they are allowed moments of weakness. If men do not feel the pressure to be strong and dominant"
If you have a moment of weakness you tell your "Friends". Wanna know why we are said to be strong and dominant? Something call GENETICS!

"Then women need not be weak and submissive. "
GENETICS

"It's about equality- equal pay for men and women who do the same job and excel at it the same"
What time is it? Its wage gap time yaaaay. The wage gap is the average of ALL men and women's wages.

"Equal love for both a housewife and a career-driven woman. "
A woman who has a husband/love interest vs a woman who works and does not have a LOVE interest should be loved the same?

"Feminism is about being who you are without society's judgement. "
Can we please agree on what feminism IS?
Debate Round No. 1
AZZhang

Con

The woman who poured bleach on a man's penis? The woman was one in billions. She did not represent the feminist society or women as a group in any way. What she did was her own, Individual decision. Just because one woman does something that is not fair does not mean the whole group of women who fight for their rights is tainted. Should I name all the women who have been raped by men- all the wives who have been abused by their husbands? There is always good in any gender, Race, Etc- just because some men are abusive does not men all are. The same goes - just because one woman pours bleach on a man's penis for manspreading does not mean all women wish to do so.

'If women wanted to be in politics, They would. ' Right. They do want it and they are doing it. But it's not easy. Women have been the underdogs for centuries far back, From the time of Ancient Rome to even a few decades ago. Women are discriminated, And there are far fewer of them than men. Feminists wish to change this- they want everyone to respect and value the women who have made these decisions, Not ridicule them and beat them down constantly.

"I thought it wasn't about hating men". Valuing a career over a man- hating men- I don't see any connection here. The women who 'value a career over a man' are choosing not to have a love relationship because they want to be the best they can be at their work. Just because they don't marry a man doesn't mean they hate them.

Genetics? That does not give reason for abusing those traits. We still live in a patriarchal society today, In which masculinity and femininity are distinguished from one another by a wide margin, And are also hierarchically ordered. Feminism strives for equality- to be equal men and women need have amounts of every trait. According to the patriarchal hierarchy the masculine qualities- such as being strong, Tough and competitive- are valued over the feminine qualities- gentle weak, And cooperative. Women have been adopting the 'masculine qualities' amongst their own more and more- yet among men, There has not been a comparable development.

' A woman who has a husband/love interest vs a woman who works and does not have a LOVE interest should be loved the same? '
YES! If you were not aware, Love is capable of being expressed in more ways than one. Friends can love each other- strangers can show love- there is a mother's love and a father's love. Loved the same refers to society's love- their acceptance and respect. The woman deemed 'normal' and the woman deemed 'too ambitious, To career-driven' should be shown the same level of respect. Their decision is theirs and theirs only.

"Can we please agree on what feminism is? "
That one's easy. Feminism is ultimately the fight for gender equality, But separated it is lots of small things that make up a large one. It's about changing the wrong beliefs which have existed for centuries- and some of which still exist now. It's about escaping gender stereotypes. That parents should not love their children less if they were born a daughter instead of a son. That schools should not limit them because they might give birth one day. That society should judge them for their career in relation to their gender.
catdog33233

Pro

Well lets see what we have here

"The woman who poured bleach on a man's penis? The woman was one in billions. She did not represent the feminist society or women as a group in any way. What she did was her own, Individual decision. " Individual decision? Well then would she have done it if there was no feminism? No she wouldn't.

"Just because one woman does something that is not fair does not mean the whole group of women who fight for their rights is tainted. " Well it's not 1 woman if it was 1 woman then this debate wouldn't exist but it does.

"Should I name all the women who have been raped by men" Should I name all the men who have been raped by women?

"all the wives who have been abused by their husbands? " Actually woman are over %10 more like like to be the abuser AND there are over 500 times more female abuse shelters then male(EQUALITY! ).

"There is always good in any gender, Race, Etc" Whats good about feminism?

"just because some men are abusive does not men all are. " Well men aren't abusive so this point is completely wrong

"The same goes - just because one woman pours bleach on a man's penis for manspreading does not mean all women wish to do so. " I explained this in a earlier rebuttel

"Right. They do want it and they are doing it. " Then why are they not a president or prime minister?

"But it's not easy. Women have been the underdogs for centuries far back, From the time of Ancient Rome to even a few decades ago. " Put some proof

"Women are discriminated" HOW?

" And there are far fewer of them than men" Its a 102:100 men:women ratio so there are not far fewer

"Feminists wish to change this- they want everyone to respect and value the women who have made these decisions, Not ridicule them and beat them down constantly. " Ridicule them and beat them down constantly? That's what feminists do to men.

"Valuing a career over a man- hating men- I don't see any connection here. The women who 'value a career over a man' are choosing not to have a love relationship because they want to be the best they can be at their work. Just because they don't marry a man doesn't mean they hate them. " They don't marry because they have to marry a man

"Genetics? That does not give reason for abusing those traits. " Abusing those traits? You're saying that because people do what is in their DNA to do, Is Abuse?

"We still live in a patriarchal society today" Patriarchal? I already said if woman wanted to do politics they would so this is not a point.

"In which masculinity and femininity are distinguished from one another by a wide margin, And are also hierarchically ordered. " Hierarchically ordered? What does this have to do with the debate?

"Feminism strives for equality" HOW?

" to be equal men and women need have amounts of every trait. " So to make everyone the exact same? Sounds sci-fi

"According to the patriarchal hierarchy" The hierarchy that would exist if women were the government.

"the masculine qualities- such as being strong, Tough and competitive- are valued over the feminine qualities- gentle weak, And cooperative. " Weak is good? If women are gentle they why do they make up most of the intimate partner abusers? Cooperative and competitive are not opposite.

"Women have been adopting the 'masculine qualities' amongst their own more and more- yet among men, There has not been a comparable development. " Adopting the qualities? HOW? "There has not been a comparable development" So you want us to become weak?

"YES! If you were not aware, Love is capable of being expressed in more ways than one. Friends can love each other- strangers can show love- there is a mother's love and a father's love. " Strangers can show love? Sounds like pedophilia.

"Loved the same refers to society's love- their acceptance and respect. The woman deemed 'normal' and the woman deemed 'too ambitious, To career-driven' should be shown the same level of respect. Their decision is theirs and theirs only. " Our decision to respect is ours and ours only

"That one's easy. Feminism is ultimately the fight for gender equality" Then help men

"But separated it is lots of small things that make up a large one. It's about changing the wrong beliefs which have existed for centuries- and some of which still exist now. " SUCH AS?

"It's about escaping gender stereotypes. " Stereotypes come from truth

"That parents should not love their children less if they were born a daughter instead of a son. " Tell that to this feminist (RIp can't find the post)

"That schools should not limit them because they might give birth one day. " This has never happened

"That society should judge them for their career in relation to their gender. " Well if you chose something stupid sure, Whatever your career is people judge you
Debate Round No. 2
AZZhang

Con

Your sole argument is that feminism is a platform for women to hate men, And that many men have been abused by women in turn. First, Again, That is NOT the point of feminism. Feminism is built to benefit both men and women, To encourage being who you are. Problems like high male suicide rates are brought on by the need of males to be 'strong', Leading to their reluctance to ask for help. This occurs from their thinking that they are obliged to stick to the 'masculine qualities. ' And whilst there have been cases of women being abused by men, It is blatantly untrue that these cases are of greater amount than men abusing women. This is not saying that men are a worse group as a whole, Nor that women are better. It is trying to help the unbalanced in the society. And again, Feminists do NOT hate men. Feminism is not the opposing of men, And whilst it may be seen by some as that way, That is due solely to misrepresentation, A common mistake. Feminism itself is a movement aimed for the better.

"Then why are they not a president or prime minister? "
The prime minister of New Zealand as of now- Jacinda Ardern. The equivalent of a prime minister in Germany- Angela Merkel. The president of Croatia- Kolinda Grabar-Kitarovic. All women, And able to run a country as well as any man. Women, And wanting to do politics.

"Put some proof. "
There is no doubt in the idea of women being lesser in the course of history, Staring in ancient empires. In Ancient Greece, Women were considered to be the inferior species, With an IQ lower than the children. Philosophers considered that women had powerful emotions and low brains. For this reason, They were deemed to need protection from themselves. Their husbands, Or the closest male member of the family, Had complete control over their lives. The average marriage age for women was 13 years, Whilst for men it was 30. In China a century ago, Women were required to bind their feet tightly to the point of near-breaking their bones from a young age in order to have smaller feet. Mne had to do no such thing. In the 1900s, More recent times, Inventor Hedy Lamarr, Who invented the program without which wifi and bluetooth would not exist, Was shunned by government officials, Because she was a woman and they did not believe a woman could produce such an ingenious invention.

"HOW? "
So, In your opinion, No discrimination? Tell that to all the child brides out there- married off at ages as young as ten, To do housework, Pleasure their husbands, And give birth to children. At best they lose their childhood and their right to education. At worst they face childbirth violence and virtual slavery. They lose any future outside of household chores. Tell them that there's no discrimination, That all is fair.

"It's a 102:100 men:women ratio so there are not fewer"
You seem to have misunderstood- I was referring to the number ratio of women and men in government positions, And so on. . . Not actual birth statistics.

"Ridicule and beat them down constantly? That's what feminists do to men. "
Like I have expressed before, The actions of some do not represent that of a whole group. Feminism does not undermine men in any way. It understands that both genders are equal. That there are both brilliant women and men out there. Feminists do not hate men. They believe in equality.

"So to make everyone the exact same? Sounds sci-fi. "
To address this point and the few before it, I would like to point out the importance of having all these traits, As we all know. There are moments when we need be gentle and other ones when we need be strong. If we only have one side of these traits, Certain situations would be unbalanced. It is not aimed to make everyone similar- it is aimed to guide people to better themselves and to better a society.

"Adopting the qualities? HOW? "
Over the years many women have made their place in the world. They have progressed more and more. In a world where nearly all women were meek housewives, Women have become stronger, Able to speak for themselves and their beliefs.

In some countries still, Parents value the birth of a son far over that of a daughter. Today, Many girls still receive less education than their brothers. Many women are still paid less than their male counterparts. Feminism does not want to take anything away from men- it only strives to give females the same chance.

Some would say to give up trying to change sexual violence. I disagree. It is insulting to men if we were to think that male violence is genetic, Or inevitable. It is not. There has been much controversy surrounding the recent #MeToo movement. It is not a vindictive quest for revenge- it is a collective sharing of grief and pain for women who have carried it for years, And are finally able to speak out publicly. Feminism does not aim to divide the genders- it aims to bring together.

Feminism is itself a last resort. It isn't about glossy hair, Or cool T-shirts, Or calling everything women do "empowering". It isn't about hating men, Or vindictive power trips, Or wasting time trying to skew statistics. It is a cry against the discrimination, Inequality, Violence and abuse that have affected the lives of millions.
catdog33233

Pro

catdog33233 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by catdog33233 3 years ago
catdog33233
So there are not feminists? DonnyBoi
Posted by DonnyBoi 3 years ago
DonnyBoi
Difference between feminist, And femi-nazis.

Feminist are people who believe in equal rights for everyone.
Femi-nazis are people who believe women are better then men, Or people who blindly think men have more power then females.
Posted by Our_Boat_is_Right 3 years ago
Our_Boat_is_Right
WOOOOO WHOOOOOOO GENDER EQUALITY SJW TIME! IM SO ECITED TO HEAR FROM CRAZY FEMINISTS WHO THINK THEY ARE OPRESSED AND THE WAGE GAP EXISTS! YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! I LOVE THESE PEOPLE!
Posted by AZZhang 3 years ago
AZZhang
As in you will be saying it is bad, As it is stated in the title "Feminism Overrated? ", So if you go pro, That then means you are saying yes, It is overrated.
Posted by catdog33233 3 years ago
catdog33233
you contradicted yourself
Posted by catdog33233 3 years ago
catdog33233
as in saying its bad or good?
Posted by AZZhang 3 years ago
AZZhang
catdog33233 you will be pro saying that feminism is overrated.
Posted by catdog33233 3 years ago
catdog33233
AZZhang i will be willing to accept i just want to know which side of the debate i will be on
Posted by catdog33233 3 years ago
catdog33233
which side would i be on?
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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