The Instigator
RooRooTheCooCoo
Pro (for)
The Contender
BertrandsTeapot
Con (against)

(For people who don"t believe in God) Free will is an illusion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 416 times Debate No: 117789
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

RooRooTheCooCoo

Pro

All brains are established and continue to develop in a way that only makes it possible to make one decision in any given circumstance
BertrandsTeapot

Con

What is the neurophysiological evidence on which you base this presumably-specious argument? It feels like a rather lazy, Sloppy articulation of the hard determinist school of thought. With Burden of Proof on Pro, I would urge them to carefully consider all of my arguments and be prepared to prove, Inexorably, That they do not withstand the test of logic and reason. I would further request that they match all of my scientific and academic sources with their own that are equally, If not more reputable and substantiable than those I provide.

Even Richard Dawkins, One of the most well-renowned, Highly-regarded scientists and evolutionary biologists in history has said, "I am very comfortable with the idea that we can override biology with free will. "

Among other ideas and processes, Modern developments in quantum physics, Especially those focusing on the collapse of probability wave functions, Completely nullify the possibility of determinism. However, I will get back to this later.

The notion and conscious experience of free will is so deeply embedded into the fiber of all of our beings that it seems rather absurd to refute it. I want to raise my right arm right now. . . I just did. I want the next sentence I type to start with the first letter of the alphabet. And it does. I am clearly able to both plan and execute actions (or their counterparts) as I see fit. Of course there are involuntary, Unconscious actions such as the beating of one's heart or the distribution of red blood cells throughout the circulatory system. The existence of free will does not demand that every atom, Every proton, Every quark, Every neutrino conduct itself according to any sort of volition. The only necessary condition for its existence would be the presence of a single action that a conscious being affected of their own accord. With the Burden of Proof on Pro, They are required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that no human who has ever existed has made a free choice. I'd urge Pro to immediately refute the examples I gave earlier and also prove that this can be extrapolated out to the entire collective consciousness and existence of the human race.

Now, For the argument from science (quantum mechanics):

There are many portions of quantum mechanics and field theory that seem to categorically disprove determinism, Especially of the incompatibalist variety. Most notably, The notion of quantum entanglement and superposition discuss states that "collapse" via presumably stochastic mechanisms under particular conditions. The world-famous Double Slit Experiment is perhaps the most famous illustration of this. However, I would contend that (in actuality), We need look no further than Bell's Inequality to see the way in which QM has veritably obliterated any chance that determinism has of describing the totality of the universe, Let alone the lifespan of a given creature (human or non).

The fact that probability wave functions collapse in indeterminable ways seems to very simply show the impossibility that we live in a deterministic world.

"It just turns out that under investigation of certain physical phenomena, Sub-atomic particles, It was experimentally found that even when the experiments were adjusted to the extent that there was -no- variability in the input data (control of single particles), There was still a probability distribution on output of the system. That is, Things that we metaphorically think of as discrete particles still act as though they have a probabilistic distribution. There is no determining the outcome exactly, Nature has inherent distributions that are not artifacts of the experiment. "

"Consider (the) decision to raise your arm. The fact that your conscious awareness – by definition – begins with the appearance of conscious mental content does not prove that there is no unconscious, And causally relevant, Mental content preparing the conscious experience. The absence of consciousness does not prove the absence of mind. " - Psychology Today

Acting according to free will is NOT the same as acting according to volition. In fact, It is often argued (and even agreed upon) that most animals sometimes (or always) act without volition. "You might insist to identify free will with voluntary action, But then you are just talking about will, Not free will in the libertarian sense, That is, The will that arises uncaused in the mind. " - Ken Miller

A few people far more intelligent, Well-read, And qualified than either of us who have spoken on the issue:

“You say: I am not free. But I have raised and lowered my arm. Everyone understands that this illogical answer is an irrefutable proof of freedom. ” - Leo Tolstoy

“Each man lives for himself, Uses his freedom to achieve his personal goals, And feels with his whole being that right now he can or cannot do such" - Also Tolstoy

“You cannot hinder someone’s free will, That’s the first law of the Universe, No matter what the decision. ” - E. A. Bucchianer

“You may fetter my leg, But Zeus himself cannot get the better of my free will. ” - Epictetus

"Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will. " - Jawaharlal Nehru

To summarize, There are a number of perspective from which one can rule out the possibility of a wholly deterministic universe. Appeals can be made from logic, Reason, Physics, Etc. I feel I have provided an abundance of logical arguments as well as reputable sources who agree with such logic and it is now incumbent upon Pro to methodically disprove
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Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Not predict the future, All choices a man in any generation God has already Created. Free Will represents an Xtian catholic dogma. Ewwwww how utterly disgusting. All human thoughts God created and creates throughout all eternity in time. There exist no past present future with the Creator. All possibilities which can exist God Created. God Creates God does not predict. Herein rests the story of the opening of Genesis.
Posted by BertrandsTeapot 3 years ago
BertrandsTeapot
If God is omniscient that means he knows everything and can irrefutably predict the future. If humans have free will, They can make their own decisions which may be counter to God"s predictions. This would mean he"s not omniscient. If he is omnipotent, He should be able to change the future. This also means his predictions would be wrong so he isn"t omniscient. If his predictions are set to always come true and he can"t change them, He is not omnipotent.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Free Will a BS Xtian dogma not worth sh*t. The Creator of the Universe created all options and choices. Actions bring either blessings or curses life or death to each and every nation throughout history.
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