The Instigator
BertrandsTeapot
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
theobjectiveconservative
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Free will is an illusion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
BertrandsTeapot
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 448 times Debate No: 117297
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

BertrandsTeapot

Pro

I believe this is simple.

One cannot be the author of their own conscious desires or thoughts. One cannot have control over their wants and needs and impulses. Any decision you try to trace back can only be traced back to some unconscious process over which you had no control.
theobjectiveconservative

Con

After reading your initial thesis thoroughly, I find that we can only agree on one thing. I also believe that this question has a fairly simple answer. Yes, Of course we have free will, Our lives depend on the choices that we consciously make every day of our lives. The idea that we have no control over what we want and need is absolutely ridiculous, It is only a clever ploy to rid one of the responsibilities of his/her actions.
Debate Round No. 1
BertrandsTeapot

Pro

One cannot control what it is that they want - they cannot dictate their own impulses and tendencies. In no way is it possible to be the author of one's own conscious desires.

“How can we be “free” as conscious agents if everything that we consciously intend is caused by events in our brain that we do not intend and of which we are entirely unaware? ” - Sam Harris

"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills. " - Arthur Schopenhauer
theobjectiveconservative

Con

This proves absolutely nothing. You literally only restated your thesis and quoted men who share the same viewpoint of the topic. Where on earth is there evidence that our lives have already been decided, And we don't have any control whatsoever over what happens next? How can you just say things like "One cannot control what they want", When there is no evidence anywhere that backs this statement.
Debate Round No. 2
BertrandsTeapot

Pro

I'm not sure there is scientific proof that will make either of our cases. I am appealing to logic.

Having free will suggests that at any given fork in the road, You have the agency to decide which path to take. This is just an illusion. Whatever thoughts, Knowledge, Or experiences you use to make your decision arose in your consciousness through no choice of your own. Whether you attribute your development to nature, Nurture, Or some combination, Neither of those forces are related to volition.
theobjectiveconservative

Con

You are right, Scientific proof won't help either of us. However, You have made a very bold proclamation, "Free will is an illusion", In my mind, If you want people to take that seriously, You must put something behind it. By admitting that you cannot, I believe that settles a lot of what we were meant to be debating. This is just a very loose and meaningless ploy to rid yourself of the responsibility of your actions.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
http://www. Debate. Org/forums/Philosophy/topic/107602/#3027122
Posted by BertrandsTeapot 3 years ago
BertrandsTeapot
I realize it"s disturbing to think we don"t have free will but I defy you to name for me one "choice" you have truly made of your own volition. One for which you can trace the origin within your conscious realm and not ultimately rely on unconscious and/or external processes.

Any careful, Or even cursory, Inspection will reveal that all the decisions you"ve made
Have originated in locations outside of your consciousness.
Posted by BertrandsTeapot 3 years ago
BertrandsTeapot
A puppet is free as long as he loves his strings
Posted by JesusChrist4Ever 3 years ago
JesusChrist4Ever
Free will is the only way. . . How could we have independent thought otherwise? We would be like puppets controlled by a marionette string. See, It just doesn"t make sense.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Topaet 3 years ago
Topaet
BertrandsTeapottheobjectiveconservativeTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's argument that everything we consciously intend is caused by events in our brain that we do not intend and of which we are entirely unaware and that humans can therefore not be considered "free as conscious agents" was convincing and not addressed by Con
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
BertrandsTeapottheobjectiveconservativeTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I found Pro argument that free will is an illusion due to what we are already being shaped and logically fated (Not the word I want, but can't think of another) to certain decisions and outcomes. While I don't think either side explained their points more, the way I took them is. Pro saying a person who spills milk is going to become upset. Con a person who spills milk can choose not to become upset. Pro only if they had previously learned how. Again I know no one said that, but that's how I took it. Anyway, free will is confusing to me. I don't care for the 'burden of proof' concept. I prefer to vote for who I found more convincing. Or had better speller grammar, sources, behavior, yada.

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