The Instigator
NickT
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Thoht
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Gay

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 828 times Debate No: 118787
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

NickT

Con

In this modern world we face many problems, Today I'd like to go over one of those-Gay's-

What"s wrong with same-sex couples having children by adopting children?

When you adopt a child they already struggle. Normally a child should should be raised by their own parents. Children are healthier when raised by their biological mother and father.

The next best thing, Though, Would be for children to be raised by a married, Opposite-sex couple, As opposed to a single parent or a same-sex couple. Adoption by a same-sex couple would give children additional difficulties to overcome instead of giving them the best chance for success. This is because same-sex parenting would deny children the ability to have a parent of each gender (both a mom and a dad). This isn"t good, Because men and women parent differently. They bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table, So children learn different lessons from mom than they do from dad, And vice versa.

Same-sex parenting would deny children the ability to have a parent of each gender (both a mom and a dad).
If a same-sex couple brought children into the world through a surrogate, That would be even worse, Because they would be creating children with the intention up front of separating them from at least one of their biological parents. Studies show that children do better if they are raised by their actual parents rather than one parent and one step parent, But same-sex parenting necessarily involves a step parent.

In fact, Numerous testimonies from people who spent their childhood in a same sex household bear out these truths. For example, Heather Barwick was raised by her mother and her mother's lesbian partner. Although Heather loves them both dearly, She writes about how the lack of a father in her home negatively affected her. She says, "My father"s absence created a huge hole in me, And I ached every day for a dad. I loved my mom"s partner, But another mom could never have replaced the father I lost" (Truth Overruled, 2015, P. 170).

According to the champions of same-sex marriage, Though, Two parents of the same gender should be just as good as having one"s own mother and father. This simply isn"t true. Advocates of same-sex marriage are primarily concerned about the desires of adults, But they largely ignore the fact that, In the process, They trample on the best interests of children.
Thoht

Pro

Happy to think with you today.

There are a number of moderately false statements made in your initial claims. You haven't supported any of your claims with sources, Which I hope you will do in R2. As such, I'll make counterclaims here and wait until R2 to give sources as well so that you can have the first word with sources.

For the purposes of this debate, In order to have a pro and a con side you must establish a question or statement that you are either on the "pro" side of or the "con" side of. The question "What's wrong with same-sex couples having children by adopting children? " Is not a question of pro or con. As such, I will reword the question in a way I presume you will agree with to be as follows:

"There is something wrong with same-sex couples adopting children. " You are Pro. I am Con.

Alternatively,

"Same-sex adoptions are inferior to opposite-sex adoptions. "

Many of the arguments you have here are not related to this question.

1. You claim a child *should* be raised by their biological parents. This means that there is nowhere in society that the child could be that would be better for them than with their biological parents in all circumstances. This is false. No matter how good any given child's parents are, There are likely a set of parents that could lead them to better outcomes.

2. You claim children are healthier when raised by their biological mother and father. This is also false. The statistics you'd need to support this would be stats on children's health when raised by their biological mother and father and stats where the children who didn't know their parents weren't their biological parents. If you don't have these stats then you have insufficient evidence to make this claim. If you have stats on when children DID know their parents were not their biological ones, That would be interesting, But wouldn't prove your point. Any differences in "health" could be due to the knowledge of their parents not being biological parents and the stress that may cause.

Now we get to the claims that more pertain to the subject you have put up for debate.

3. You claim children raised by married opposite-sex couples have better outcomes to same sex couples or single-parent households. The single parent claim is true. The opposite-sex claim is shown by no research data that is peer-reviewed and accepted, And is not corroborated throughout the set of data that we have. Some data shows statistical significance that same-sex couples are superior in certain ways. Some shows statistical significance they are inferior in certain ways. An overall analysis of all studies by professionals in these fields show no significant difference between children adopted by same-sex or opposite-sex families.

4. You claim that mothers and fathers parent differently. That gender determines one's parenting techniques. You will have to elaborate, As this is false. Children learn different lessons from two moms or two dads as well as individuals are unique. One has to show evidence that gender determines one's parenting techniques or that there are lessons only females or males can teach. I submit that you have no such data and can not state one thing a female could teach that a male could not. Any lessons a female could teach through empathy as opposed to sympathy are not lessons that it is necessary for a parent specifically to teach. If they were, Why would 2 female parents not be superior for a female child than 1 female and 1 male parent? Why would 2 male parents not be superior to 1 male 1 female pairs at raising a male?

5. You claim that same-sex partner's surrogate children would be worse off still because studies show that biological parents have a leg up on one biological parent and one step parent. This is a false equivocation. The two are not equal. You need studies specific to surrogate children of same sex couples versus opposite sex parents.

6. You cite numerous "testimonies. " Anecdotal evidence is sometimes worse than no evidence. You need statistics to support claims relating to larger numbers of people. All your anecdote proves is that there is probably at least one person who felt they could've done better in a home with a father, And that isn't even proof her outcome was objectively worse, Just that she felt that she missed her father.

7. All your claims are not comparing like versus like. If we are debating the legitimacy of same-sex couples adopting children, The group you need to compare them with is opposite-sex couples adopting children. Whether or not same-sex couples lead to better outcomes for the children than biological parents, Single parents, Or step-parent+biological parent pairs are irrelevant to the discussion.

Those are your claims. When you supply evidence for any of them, I will explain the errors of your evidence, Or accept their points accordingly.

My claims are as follows:

1. There is no statistical proof that adopted children raised by same-sex couples fare worse than adopted children of opposite-sex couples. There are studies that show same-sex is slightly superior in some ways and others that show same-sex is slightly inferior in some ways. This is what we would expect to see if they are the same.

2. Insofar as studies have shown different results, The studies largely do not take other factors into consideration. Most will not analyze differences in family structure, Support systems, Or financial stability. It is also difficult to measure the impact bigotry against their adoptive parents leads to a change in their lifestyles.

3. If my opponent claims that same-sex couples ought not to be allowed to adopt, It is not even a question of whether or not opposite sex couples are better. It is a question of do same-sex adoptive parents lead to better outcomes than foster care, Or do same-sex adoptive parents lead to better outcomes than a single-parent adoptive family? If my opponent wishes to take on this challenge he must first answer those questions, None of which he will be able to do to his argument's benefit.

4. At best, If there was statistical evidence that opposite-sex adoptive parents led to better outcomes than same-sex adoptive parents, They should get priority, Not outlaw same-sex entirely. There are plenty of kids who need to be adopted. Any household that meets the criterion of our adoptive agencies should be allowed to adopt. The argument that it is either-or is a false dichotomy.

Lastly, We need to agree on metrics to analyze outcomes if we are to reach agreement either way. What outcomes are we looking at specifically? If you supply me your list and reasons, I will supply you mine.

I will support my arguments with sources in R2, As I hope my opponent shall.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht
Debate Round No. 1
NickT

Con

NickT

Con

Have a wonderful day-

You are right I didn't support my facts I'm sorry. I did have sources, However I can't find them on browsing history, I will suprort my claims this time around: also I am very sorry I am in a hurry so I'll be writing less this time around.

A child should be with there biological parents but I'm not saying adoption is not an option as adoption. Org states "can be incredibly beautiful and provide a loving family for a child who would otherwise not have a family of which to be a part. Adoption can also be an option for placement of children whose parents were simply unable or not ready to parent" but I strongly disagree in terms of same sex parenting, The study by sociology professor Paul Sullins found that "[a]t age 28, The adults raised by same-sex parents were at over twice the risk of depression as persons raised by man-woman parents. " In addition, There was an "elevated risk associated with imbalanced closeness and parental child abuse in family of origin; depression, Suicidality, And anxiety at age 15; and stigma and obesity. "

5. You claim that same-sex partner's surrogate children would be worse off still because studies show that biological parents have a leg up on one biological parent and one step parent. This is a false equivocation. The two are not equal. You need studies specific to surrogate children of same sex couples versus opposite sex parents. -true

6. You cite numerous "testimonies. " Anecdotal evidence is sometimes worse than no evidence. You need statistics to support claims relating to larger numbers of people. All your anecdote proves is that there is probably at least one person who felt they could've done better in a home with a father, And that isn't even proof her outcome was objectively worse, Just that she felt that she missed her father. -yes you are very right here to

1. There is no statistical proof that adopted children raised by same-sex couples fare worse than adopted children of opposite-sex couples. There are studies that show same-sex is slightly superior in some ways and others that show same-sex is slightly inferior in some ways. This is what we would expect to see if they are the same-very true I think that is settled on both sides

Do same-sex adoptive parents lead to better outcomes than foster care? Yes they can sometimes, Agisn I'm not saying that same sex is always a bad option-after all there is a need for adoption Or do same-sex adoptive parents lead to better outcomes than a single-parent adoptive family? It depends on the situation, In some situations the single parent is abusive and creat a worse environment, This does however happen with Same sex couples to.

I am looking in this argument not to fight (kind of ironic:) but to see a pro gay persons views and lastly to learn a little bit about arguments. Thank you
Thoht

Pro

1. I read the full Paul Sullins study called "Invisible Victims: Delayed Onset Depression among Adults with Same-Sex Parents. "

Immediately I notice Paul Sullins is a sociology professor at Catholic University of America. A potentially biased organization. Moving on, The abstract notes that the findings should be taken cautiously. This is because in their sample of same-sex children abuse was higher than expected.

Now the real damning part. The sample size for opposite-sex marriages was 20, 000+ reduced to around 8, 000.

The sample size for same-sex couples was 20. You can find this under "Data and Methods. "

This is not how real science is done. The entire pool of same-sex couples was cherry picked and extremely, I can't say this with enough emphasis, EXTREMELY small to be attempting to make generalized claims. Do you think same-sex couples with children are so rare to where we can easily follow 20k opposite sex couples but only 20 same-sex? No.

This is not a legitimate source of scientific fact.

In fact, The entire study has been condemned by the people who published it for the same reasons. If you had read the article even a little you would have seen this. Please don't accept random website's interpretations. Read the actual study.

Now, If those findings were accurate they would be corroborated with other scientific studies. They are not.

If this was your only source of information for your reasoning behind why same-sex couples having children or adopting children is worse than opposite-sex pairs then I believe it has been sufficiently quashed for any reasonable individual.

If you're looking for the pro-gay stance on this it would roughly translate as follows:

1. There are no lessons only a female or only a male parent can teach. Even if there were you would not use this argument to forbid single parents from raising children.

2. Having two male or two female parents in sexual relationships would be no different than having two male parents who were not gay or two female parents who were not gay.

3. You wouldn't say that two male parents or two female parents who aren't gay couldn't raise a child.

4. As such, There's no grounds to stop same-sex couples from having children.

It should be noted that statistics show that there are many ways same-sex couples are better for children. They are more likely to stay together than opposite-sex parents. Their children tend to be more open minded and accepting of others.

My sources are:

1. The national institute of health (US)
2. Livescience article on some ways gay parents are superior
3. American Academy of Pediatrics
4. American Medical Association
5. American Psych Association
et cetera.

Easiest way to go about it is to just look up LGBT parenting on wikipedia and use sources from there.

As my opponent has produced no other new arguments and all of his sources have been irreparably squashed by my eyes, I leave it to you, The readers to judge. I have provided the metrics by which my opponent could prove his point and he has come up wanting. My initial opinion, Supported by all the statistics I can find from reputable sources state that there is negligible difference when the pros and the cons are all said and done. At worst, Same-sex couples bring up children with similar results to opposite-gendered couples.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by NickT 3 years ago
NickT
Thanks for a fair argument Thoht!
Posted by NickT 3 years ago
NickT
Please be polite, I hope I wasn't rude
Posted by NickT 3 years ago
NickT
2 days or so
Posted by Naia 3 years ago
Naia
How long would I have to respond to each of your points? If I am given enough time then I will accept.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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