The Instigator
BJoAnnK
Pro (for)
The Contender
Gammer001
Con (against)

Giving Teachers Guns

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 552 times Debate No: 110295
Debate Rounds (5)
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BJoAnnK

Pro

We would not be "simply" handing out guns. Teachers would go through training and have a conceal and carry. They cant just walk in with a gun.

It would also be their choice. If they would feel uncomfortable they just would not say yes. If they feel uncomfortable and say yes then that is their fault. But if a teacher is comfortable with having a gun and taking out an active shooter instead of laying out students lives then they should have the choice to be allowed to legally carry a gun after specific gun training and after they have met specific requirements.

Teachers should be capable of protecting their students if they are comfortable with risking their life for multiple others. Giving teachers handguns could end a shooting faster and maybe even prevent multiple deaths. These active shooters should not be able to come into schools thinking everyone is unarmed. Because if these people know what they could be walking into and that it is a death trap, would they really start going into armed schools and shooting maybe one or two people?

I know that teachers are people who teach most of what we know and that we learn from them but that does not mean they should not be able to protect students or themselves.
Gammer001

Con

Suppose we offer this as an optional thing for teachers to partake in where they go to a training course and are handed a gun, all funded by the school, and let's pretend the money isn't a problem. We are also going to assume for a second that an armed teacher can be effective in stopping an armed shooter.

Now suppose that there exists a school, or multiple schools where no teachers have opted into this program.

If such schools have no armed teachers, this idea fails to mitigate the mass shooting dilemma for those schools specifically, thus failing as a solution to the problem at hand.

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You said "Because if these people know what they could be walking into and that it is a death trap, would they really start going into armed schools and shooting maybe one or two people?"

This seems to be one of the bigger arguments people are throwing around, President Trump being one of them, but the problem is perpetrators likely have little to no fear of the consequences of their actions seeing as they inevitably get arrested, or shot, or imprisoned. In fact most shooters have little regard for their life entirely when they commit these atrocities. Relevant study here: https://www.tandfonline.com...;

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The idea also fails to take into consideration the fact that teachers are by no means saints who would never misuse guns, or other tools given to them. There are numerous studies that show biases in schools in regards to disciplinary action. https://search.proquest.com... and https://link.springer.com... just to name a couple.

Teachers do not have perfect judgement, if say, a minority student were to make a teacher scared, they very well could pull out their concealed firearm and shoot said student. Then we end up with the same problem that police have where they may not be overtly racist or outwardly maniacal in their judgement, they can't always make level-headed decisions when they have the ability to take another's life in what they see as the defense of their own. Not to mention the fact that some teachers may very well end up shooting a student that they deem to be dangerous by their judgement in order to prevent a shooting before it starts, thinking the student is pulling out a gun when they are in fact not.
Debate Round No. 1
BJoAnnK

Pro

Teachers would not go out and just shoot a student because they are scared. If this was a scenario then the teacher would instead call the office or police. Teachers may definitely make mistakes and may misuse guns but if it was a teacher against a student the teacher would not or should not be silly and pull out a handgun to shoot a student. Now, say the student has a gun. This is why teachers need handguns. If somebody comes in with a gun what can they do? Sit there while children get shot when they could be doing something? No. Teachers can take action on an active shooter and end the shooting.

Now, you stated that "The idea also fails to take into consideration the fact that teachers are by no means saints who would never misuse guns". If teachers would misuse guns, any gun owner could misuse a gun. If that is the case, should we just ban guns altogether, causing a riot, a worse black market for guns, and protests? That would be going against our freedom and amendment two, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". Teachers are civilians and people, too, meaning they should have the right to carry a gun.

If teachers have not chosen this program then that is their choice. It will be putting teachers and students at risk but, if the teachers believe that way, we could always arm custodians, principles, or custodians, seeing as they are usually and if not always up and walking around the school, with handguns. But, let's say none of them are comfortable with a gun, since they would not be putting in the money for training for teachers, they could put in money for one or two security guards.

I took a look at Isreal and how they prevent their school shootings. They have one armed security guard and have one had half a dozen terror attacks since 1974. Since that is one security guard, wouldn't that mean we only need one armed adult with a conceal and carry and training at schools? ( https://www.cbsnews.com... )
Gammer001

Con

You're completely ignoring the fact that police, the people who's profession is literally keeping the peace through the appropriate means, are by no means perfect. I'm not claiming "teachers would go out and shoot a student cause they're scared," I am saying that teachers can, and will, make mistakes of poor judgement and someone will get hurt. Yes most teachers will call the office if an altercation were to arise, but my concern is other teachers. We already as a nation have issues with inadequate or unsuitable teachers. Potentially giving them a gun is going to exasserbate the problem. Link here: https://www.usatoday.com...

Also, teacher's don't "sit there while children get shot," they have lockdown drills to keep the shooter from knowing students are in a room or not. An excercise that is completely negated when a teacher pops open a door with the intent to shoot the shooter back. This idea also forgets that if the teacher misses because of being in a high stress scenario, or if the shooter shoots the teacher first, the students in that specific room are only put in more danger. We can't expect the individuals in a dangerous situation to "rise to the ocassion" every time and save the day. Do not glorify gun fights as a means to solve shootings as it will only lead to more deaths.

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You quoted the intorductory sentence in my argument, not the conclusion. I am concerned about the bias that individual teachers have, racially, ethnically, based in gender, or otherwise. Of course teachers are people, that's the point. I also never brought up anything regarding the 2nd ammendment, that is a bigger argument that this one is merely a part of, in other words, only tangentially related to what I was saying. You also completely assumed my stance as I have said nothing about the 2nd or gun control laws in general.

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Well, to start Israel is misused in debates like these https://www.timesofisrael.com... As stated in the article, armed guards are there for protecting the students from foreign terror attacks, not gun wielding countrymen. The reason for Israel's lack of mass shootings is because of their strict gun control policy, not because of some guards: https://www.nytimes.com... Note, they don't just have less school shootings, but all types of mass shootings. Also one armed individual isn't going to single-handedly save the day, there are several instances of school shootings where there were in fact armed guards or police officers: https://www.theguardian.com... https://www.huffingtonpost.com... This evidence is somewhat anecdotal however declaring Israel to be some sort of example of armed guards being the solution to our school shooting dilema is just misrepresenting the facts.
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Debate Round No. 5
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