The Instigator
K_Michael_Tolman
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Amaurotic
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Globe, Not Flat. Don't accept this debate unless you LEGITIMATELY beliexe that the Earth is flat

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
K_Michael_Tolman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2019 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 703 times Debate No: 120045
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

K_Michael_Tolman

Pro

No trolling. Show me irrefutable evidence of a flat earth.
Amaurotic

Con

Ok at first I would always laugh at the flat earthers but after looking into it myself I noticed something fishy. One proof is the perspective. Our eyes work in a way where we have a vanishing point which is the horizon. The horizon is not the curvature of the earth. When you rise up the horizon is still up to eye level meaning the curvature is moving or the earth is flat. So the proof of horizon being the curve is totally false. We cannot see the curvature with our own eyes. We cannot also feel us spinning and moving in infinite space. We have blind faith in Nasa. The first evidence is perspective and how it works. The boat going over the curve. . . Is nothing but perspective. Look at the clouds outside they will start being under one another but you will see the clouds from the side meaning it is not curving but just perspective. Water is always level and flat meaning the water is not curving. They state gravity curves the water but that's just destroying basic physics with non-sensical science and there is no real explanation of gravity on its own. They only know it's there as a force. Flat-earthers state that density and buoyancy is the reason why things fall down as we are heavier than air and when a hot air balloon flies in the skies its because it's less dense than the air. I'm not actually sure what shape the earth is but I'm closer to the flat atm.
Debate Round No. 1
K_Michael_Tolman

Pro

"We cannot also feel us spinning and moving in infinite space. "
This has to do with inertia. It's the principle that keeps you from being pressed into the back of your seat all of the time when driving. As long as you retain a constant speed, It will feel as if you're motionless. And in relation to car, You are. The same goes with the earth. Since you move with the earth, You can't tell that it's moving. The reason this doesn't produce any wind or move you when you jump straight in the air is because the atmosphere is also maintaining this constant speed. So it's the same as being in an absolute, Fixed position.
"When you rise up the horizon is still up to eye level meaning the curvature is moving or the earth is flat. "
No, It isn't. When you are in an airplane, The horizon is not at eye level. It is below you.
Finally, There is the problem that I always hold to in the case of these conspiracy theories. Why would NASA lie to us? It's not like it's just that single organization either. Everyone agrees that the earth is spherical. It would be impossible to hide the truth from those at NASA who review satellite imagery. And if you think that every single one of those thousands of employees would keep the secret, You're most definitely wrong. I have no such faith in the confidences of the human race.
Furthermore, There is no perceivable benefit to a cover-up. Faking all of that satellite imagery would be expensive, And I can think of no reason to want to make everyone think that the earth is a globe, Unless that is the case.
Amaurotic

Con

First of thank you for replying with respect and not sarcasm. I'm new to this topic as I really never took it into consideration. I'll start off by talking about why NASA would lie. Money and it helps their agenda. Making it seem like we are a spec in the universe made from rocks clashing together. I can't say they are living 100% because as I said I'm not 100% sure the earth is flat or round but is closer to the flat slide. When it comes to them faking it. We are not saying all of the people in the organization are lying and faking it. The people at the top which is a few people and the rest are being fooled. You can see online many videos of interviewing astronauts gone wrong because they are caught out. They get super angry and fear something but we don't know what. . . When you said the horizon is not at eye level that is false. The horizon always rises up and down to eye level. It's to our vision. We can never see over it because its not a curve. Also I know why they tell us we can't feel the spinning or moving in infinite space. That's my point we trust their explanation but don't experience it. Its blind faith. You cannot prove the earth is round. The sun is not going over the horizon as I just proved that the horizon is not the curve. Its simply moving away from us and we cannot see it. If the sun was 93 million miles away it wouldn't get smaller and smaller as it moved away. Watch this video : https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=aQ7_9eIAlT4&t=1469s
Debate Round No. 2
K_Michael_Tolman

Pro

I'm sorry but I'm confused about what you're saying with the horizon. You have to look down (slightly) to see it from an airplane. I understand the part about not being able to see past it. That fits the definition of horizon.
I've never seen more horizon than from the ground.
The problem I have with your video is that it could be much more easily faked than the decades of satellite footage that NASA shows us.
How does NASA make money from tricking everyone?
" Its simply moving away from us and we cannot see it. " can you explain this please?

Finally, There's this. "we are a spec in the universe made from rocks clashing together. "
I don't agree with that. The Big Bang Theory I don't agree with. But I believe that the earth is indeed a sphere. How else would one part of the earth get light but another not?
Amaurotic

Con

Sorry for taking a while to respond. I was busy yesterday. Now for the horizon part. The people who strongly believe the earth is a globe always use the boat going over the horizon or the sun going over the horizon proves theirs a curve however I already proved that the horizon is not the curvature of the earth but our perspective and eye limit. Therefor the sun is not going over a curve but moving further away from us. We can zoom into the boat that goes away from us even tho it disappears over the horizon. "its simply moving away from us" The sun is moving away from us and we are starting to not be able to see it with our limited sight. It is going above us. NASA makes a lot of money from taxes and other sources. I researched they were funded about $400 billion a year. Its good that you don't believe the Big Bang right away as it is just a theory and not proven but the globe is also a theory. Not one real photo. We don't even know if we have a core as humans can only dig down 7 miles deep. We never even explored the depths of the oceans yet. The thing with space is its endless imagination. They can pull anything from their asses (excuse my language) and we will believe it. "How else would one part of the earth get light but another not" The sun is simply not 93 million miles away and not as big as we think it is. Same with the moon. The sun and moon being the same size would make more sense for the lunar eclipse than their explanation on how the distance makes it so they look the same. . . Thank you
Debate Round No. 3
K_Michael_Tolman

Pro

The sun moves (well more accurately, We move around it, But the appearance is the same, So we can say that the sun's position relative to any point on Earth moves in an arc around the earth. ) in an arc over the course of the day. If you look at a cliff or hillside during the sun set, You will see the shadow climbing vertically, As the sun goes downward, Not further away.
If the sun was getting further away to explain night, Then it would get uniformly darker, Not a clearly defined growing shadow.

NASA does make a lot of money, But what about other countries' science organizations? There are also a lot of nonprofit organizations that aren't benefited by this conspiracy. Even if a few higher ups at NASA were hiding the truth from their employees, Than some amateur scientist should have noticed. Or a rivaling country would have published the truth, In order to discredit the American government.
Amaurotic

Con

I do not believe we move around the sun. This is an on going debate. Some people say it goes around us and some people say we go around it. I believe we are the center of the universe and everything is aligned to us and everything spins around us. When the sun is going further away from meaning the sun is no longer in our area to be day. NASA does make a lot of money. This is a fact. The non profit organisations like the idea of space so much that its a hobby for them. They can never adventure into space. Only NASA and NASA helps all the other space organisations across the whole world. All of the rivalry countries are in on it. They are all to blame. Many are fooled. (not 100% again. Just claims).

FOR THE COMMENTS: We see the top of the mountain and then the middle and then the bottom due to perspective. I am not experienced or informed enough to answer those questions. Good questions for someone more knowledgeable on this topic.
Debate Round No. 4
K_Michael_Tolman

Pro

The sun does move in an arc relative to your eyesight. It doesn't get look smaller and get further away as it nears the horizon. In fact, As the sun sets, It looks bigger, As the angle means that the light moves through a larger amount of atmosphere, Acting as a lens. Whether you believ in the heliocentric or geocentric solar sstem is irrelevant to our debate and my argument's claims. Only a circular movement of the sun and the moon makes sense.

By rival countries, I don't mean those that compete academically. I mean the ones that aren't on good terms with our government, And aren't receiving any aid from us or our allies.
Amaurotic

Con

I know the sun spins around us for a fact also the moon. See it depends on perspective. Sometimes the sun gets bigger as it goes away and sometimes it gets really small. Yes, A circular movement of the sun and the moon around the earth makes sense. Those countries don't exist. They don't want to get nuked. Also, Everyone accepts the reality of the world with which we are presented. It was nice debating with you.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
You ever approach a mountain and see the tip first then the middle as you get closer, Then eventually the bottom?

Anyone that believes in flat Earth has to explain ocean tides, The above concept, Why all other planets are globes, And how airplanes navigate based on a globe. There is no flat Earth model that explains how airplanes navigate currently.
Posted by PlayfairAxiom 3 years ago
PlayfairAxiom
Wow. A respectful flat earth debate. Haven't seen this in a while. I applaud you two for not being insulting or demeaning, Unlike other people I've seen.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
technically, Con said that they were more in support of flat earth than of the global cosmography. Con didn't flat out say that they believed it.
One thing I want to get straight is that I defend logic as much as possible, Not opinions. If your reasoning is wrong but your view correct, I will still call you out on it.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
When this debate is over, @Con I'm challenging you to this same topic of the debate. I need to open your eyes since you believe in the earth being flat.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
I hope this means that all the flat earthers out there are just trolls.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
K_Michael_TolmanAmauroticTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I'll just say that Pro refuted any legitimate claim Con had. Pro had good points. They could be better, but they were good enough.

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