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God Exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/6/2011 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,316 times Debate No: 17431
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
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Hello DDO,
In this debate I will NEGATE the resolution that God exists. My opponent must be a believer in some type of God. This is the structure of the debate:

Round 1: Acceptance ONLY
Round 2: Opening arguments ONLY
Round 3: Rebuttal 1
Round 4: Rebuttal 2
Round 5: Rebuttal 3/Closing Arguments

Definitions will be in the next round. Thanks and good luck.


I accept the terms, and wish you good luck!
Debate Round No. 1


Theism: the view that there is exactly one being who is:
•omnipotent (all-powerful),
•omniscient (all-knowing),
•Omni-benevolent (all-good),
•transcendent (outside of space and time),
•omnipresent (present everywhere),
•who created the world, and
•who rules the world (that is, the being interacts with the world by desiring to have the people in it behave in certain ways or believe certain things--this is to distinguish this view from deism, for example, which would be the same as theism except for the omission of the last characteristic on this list).

Atheism: the view that theism is false.

The Presumption of Atheism Argument

1. If a claim is extraordinary, then in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence in its favor, the claim may be considered false.
2. The claim that a god exists is an extraordinary claim.
3. Therefore, in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence in its favor, the claim that a god exists may be considered false.
4. There is no extraordinarily strong evidence for the claim that a god exists.
5. Therefore, the claim that a god exists may be considered false.

Extraordinary claim: a claim that contradicts accepted physical laws or our common sense, everyday experiences of the world.

Extraordinary claims vary in their degree of extraordinariness. For example, the claim that I have eaten lunch is does not contradict accepted physical laws or our commonsense, everyday experience, so little or no evidence other than my word on it would be required for one to accept that claim and be epistemically responsible. Let’s say that I claim that I won the multi-million dollar lottery. It does not violate the physical laws, but it would contradict our commonsense, everyday experience, since most people do not win the lottery. In this case, it is logical to require proof. Let us now say that rode through the woods on a pink/purple unicorn. This would require the most amount of evidence; because, to accept this, you need to change your views about:
a. The reporting of history
b. The study of zoology
c. How we explore the world.

It would be most rational to disbelieve the account about the unicorn until quite a bit of evidence was presented.

The claim that god exists is an extraordinary claim of the highest degree of extraordinariness. This claim is about a being who is not only different from humans and animals with regard to power or intelligence, but this being exists in a much different way than anything else we have ever encountered in our everyday experience. God is alleged to be a being that exists outside of space and time. In this way god is far different from a unicorn or any other kind of thing we have encountered in our experience. We should, then, demand extraordinarily strong evidence before believing that theism is true. In the absence of such evidence, one is justified in holding that theism is false.

This attitude regarding gods is common. If it did turn out that there is no evidence for the claim that god exists, it is then reasonable to deny their existence. Example, the Christians do not believe in:
A. Allah (the Islamic god)
B. Osiris (the Egyptian god)
C. Titlacahuan, the omnipotent Aztec god.

And so forth. No one has ever been able to prove that these gods do not exist, yet no Christian believes that such gods exist now or that they have existed in the past. Thus, it seems that most believers in the Judeo-Xian god disbelieve in claims about other gods even though the nonexistence of such beings has not been shown. They disbelieve in such gods because there is absolutely no evidence that such beings exist. They use a presumption of atheism.

It would certainly be insufficient as a response to simply rebut that the Xian does not believe in such gods because such a belief would be incompatible with his or her presently held Xian beliefs. That would not be a sufficient justification to disbelieve in non-Xian gods. Surely no Xian reading this on the Xian websites would be satisfied if a Hindu were to claim that his or her belief that Hinduism is true is sufficient grounds for rejecting belief in the Xian god. No, most people disbelieve in the tens of thousands of gods in the past for the same reason I disbelieve in them: the claims that those beings exist is an extraordinary claim and there is no evidence for the claim. Since this is an accepted principle of belief in this case, I can use the same reasoning to reject belief in the Xian god as long as there is no extraordinarily strong evidence to support belief in the existence of the Xian god.

And is there strong evidence for the existence of god? I hope to show there is not. It is important to note that some Philosophers did not think so (i.e. Pascal, the one who invented the famous “Pascal’s wager.”)

Thus, in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence for the existence of god, one would be justified in believing that such a being does not exist. Despite years of searching, I have encountered no evidence that even rises to the level of plausibility, let alone to the level of being extraordinarily strong evidence. Had there been extraordinarily strong evidence for the existence of god, I am certain that I would have been presented with it by now. I think the best explanation as to why this evidence is not forthcoming is that it does not exist. I conclude that, unless shown otherwise by evidence yet disclosed, we are justified in rejecting belief in a god.

By the way, this approach not only justifies me in rejecting the god of theism, as defined above, but also in rejecting all other gods that may be proposed by other religions until such time as extraordinarily strong evidence is presented in favor of the existence of such beings. Thus, I can conclude that there are no gods at all, and this would include the god of theism and the Xian god in particular.

I feel I should have re-phrased the resoltuion, "There are good reasons to believe in God"



Thank you GMDebater, I look forward to debating you in further rounds.

First, I would like to start off by making a crucial point; my reasons I offer for God's existence can always be brushed aside with the stubborn persistence of non-acceptance. Think of it this way. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon. Now I would like to begin my actual argument by focusing on a couple of main reasons for the existence of God. The complexity of our planet and it's humans, the supreme accuracy delivered by the bible in reference to God, and the unexplained phenomenon which is our universe.

1. The complexity of our planet and humans

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to 120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

Gravity is an invisible force which makes sense of why objects fall to the ground whereas God is an invisible force which makes sense of why the universe exists, why living things exist, and why organisms survive, grow, and reproduce. Does labeling something as "natural" obviate the need for God? Explore the mystery of consciousness. How likely is it that matter gave rise to mind all on its own? Many physicists are of the view that any theory of everything would be incomplete if it does not in some way account for the existence of consciousness.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
The complexity of all these factors in on the thought of a creator; saying it's evolution or coincidence doesn't cut it for planet Earth and it's astoundingly perfect placement in our solar system.

2. The supreme accuracy delivered by the bible in reference to God

The bible makes claims that create substantial evidence of explaining our universe, far "in advance of humanity having theories/developed or technology" to try to form such concepts and verify scientific assertions. For instance, the Bible says, �€œHe stretches out the north [a direction] over 'empty' space, and hangs the earth on 'nothing'.�€� (Job 26:7)
How would the writer a few thousand years in the past have known that the Earth is "suspended in space"?

In addition, the bible claims things that have happened, and will happen. Time and again, it states in great detail past events, and elaborates on names and specific locations. According to historical records, when Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon in 535 BC, Daniel the prophet asked him to release the Jews who had been captive there for 70 years. �€œWhy should I?�€� asked Cyrus. In response Daniel read him a passage from Isaiah written nearly 250 years earlier. In the passage Cyrus was mentioned by name, and the method by which he had just conquered Babylon was described in detail (Isaiah 45:1-7). This fulfilled prophecy persuaded Cyrus and he freed the Jews.

When Alexander the Great read Daniels vision of the Ram and the Goat (Daniel 8:1-8), he became convinced that the vision spoke of the way Greece had conquered Persia under his leadership, and from that time forward afforded the Jews special treatment. Upon entering Jerusalem, Alexander bowed before the High Priest and spared the city. He appointed Jewish administrators over much of his kingdom, and it was in the city of Alexandria that a grandson of Alexander's had the Old Testament translated into Greek so the world could read it. By the way Daniel had his vision over 200 years before Alexander was born.

The first 35 verses of Daniel 11 document in advance the history of the Middle East from the death of Alexander to the arrival of the Romans in such great detail that unbelievers have spent hundreds of years trying to prove that it was written after the fact. As a result Daniel is the most historically documented book in the entire Old Testament.

The validity of the bible therefore shows the validity in God; if the Bible can be proven to be correct, it directly links to God, which gives him validity as well. All these passages bring us all to a point of acceptance; acceptance in the fact that these events were predicted, and that this book is the book of God. This alone blatantly shows the evidence of God.

3. The unexplained phenomenon which is our universe
A Supernatural Act Occurred When God Created The Universe.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen." The opening statement of the Bible declares that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) It makes no logical sense for anyone to assert that "absolutely nothing" could have produced that initiating bang or anything else: "something existed" and "caused that", producing those things that we know of as having a beginning. The universe has not always existed. Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
Debate Round No. 2


Thank you for accepting this debate. I wish you the best of luck.

1. The complexity of our planet and humans

Does complexity really need a designer? Surely god is more complex than anything he created. This begs the question, "Who created god?"

Also, I'd LOVE to see sources from scientist that back up any of your claims.

We know that life evolves to fit its environment; therefore it is very possible for life to exist if the earth was smaller or further/closer from the sun.

My opponent cites the complexity of the organs. Yet again this begs the question "Who created god?" My opponent is using the argument from ignorance [i.e. "I do not understand].

2. Accuracy of the Bible

My opponent cites Isaiah which gives the king BY NAME. This seems impressive until once realises that
a) we do not have the original--it was very possible that Daniel added this later or that someone fabricated it;
b) There are contradictions in the Bible and;
c) The Bible contains faild prophecies.

Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.

The river mentioned here is the Nile. Obviouilsy the Nile is still the main water source in Egypt today.

Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

Never in Egypt's history was it uninhabitaed for 40 years.

The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim, Nebuchadnezzar will conquer Judah.

The third year of Jehoiakim’s reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.

(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods

3. The unexplained phenomenon which is our universe

Again, this argument begs the question, "Who created god?" It also violates its own argument and thus is self-refuting.

Back to you.



PartamRuhem forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


GMDebater forfeited this round.


PartamRuhem forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


GMDebater forfeited this round.


GMDebater's account no longer exists...forfeit
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by PartamRuhem 7 years ago
someone vote...
Posted by rodimusprime 7 years ago
On a perfectly scientific level the idea that all is chaos without form is absurd, wether that form has the label of god, or of universal balance, it is implausable to assume nothing created something. Actums razor is an easy retort to atheism, but the numbers and science of quantum theory hint at a larger scale oneness then ever imagined in previous thought.... Aside from within relegion. A child calling a ligthbulb magic would be the equivilent of a human trying to understand what created the muti-verse, but without the ability for any possiblity, no possiblity could exist.
Posted by GMDebater 7 years ago
yes, I'm arguing god does not exist.
Posted by Gileandos 7 years ago
He is Con...?
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 7 years ago
"God exists" and taking the Con would be better.
Posted by GMDebater 7 years ago
what do u mean? I'm arguing he doesn't exist. What would be a good resolution?
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 7 years ago
Not the best worded prompt, I was tempted to take this as an atheist and essentially end the argument in the first round, but I'll have a heart and refrain.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Balacafa 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by thett3 7 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: GM forfieited more