The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
jent0401
Con (against)

God doesn't want you to be happy!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 618 times Debate No: 112555
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Taken from "The Atheist Republic"
Joel Osteen is the senior pastor of Lakewood Church, a megachurch in Houston, Texas. It is the largest congregation in the United States, averaging more than 43,500 in attendance per week. Osteen is often thought of within the Christian world as almost more of a motivational speaker than a pastor in the traditional sense; so, it shouldn"t have come as much of a surprise when his wife and ministry partner Victoria said something in a sermon that brought the heresy hunters running with teeth bared.

"I just want to encourage everyone of us to realize when we obey God, we"re not doing it for God " I mean, that"s one way to look at it " we"re doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we"re happy. So I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you"re not doing it for God really. You"re doing it for yourself, because that"s what makes God happy."

In other words, God doesn"t want your obedience for its own sake, he wants you to obey him because it"s good for you, it helps make your life better and that is what pleases him. The gist of what she said, even from a Christian perspective " a progressively liberal one anyway " wasn"t all that shocking. The problem is that it"s difficult to convince people to be religious if you don"t also compel them to sacrifice their own self-interests.

Which is why after finding out what Victoria said, there were reactions like this from Steve Camp, Pastor at Cross Church in Palm City:

"It"s the age-old sin of idolatry " that it"s not about God, it"s about us. True worship for the humanist is about how we feel at the end of the day and what gives us meaning, as opposed to what gives God glory""

This is representative of most of the negative reactions to Victoria"s statement. Another common response is along the lines of what Mini Carlsson posted in response to our story, "...hmmm, didn't jesus say one is to hate their own life in order to be a disciple? may be she skipped that part"

Anthony Toohey replied, "Thank you for reminding us why Christianity is a cesspool of self-hatred and degradation."

Winston Gainey also made an astute comment to the story which was very popular, "Love how the snake oil salesman are criticizing her for improperly selling snake oil :)"

It is definitely difficult to comprehend why Victoria"s comments could possibly be construed as bad, but, in Christian orthodoxy, those who say the types of things that Victoria said are seen as idolaters because they are putting the self before God. Religious people are fundamentally motivated to "do good" out of an often very sincere desire to please God. Some "good things" make good common humanist sense. Others are a bit more difficult to understand. So the believer turns to their Holy Book(s) and Clergy for guidance. But at the end of the day, the believer isn"t supposed to be living for him/herself but rather at the pleasure of God.

In the mind of the atheist, doing what works for me and also caring about others makes good common sense. But in the mind of the religious, this is blasphemy. The religious person must be thinking about what pleases God and what God is commanding. All behavior must start from there.

So, when a pastor"s wife tells the congregation to obey God for their own benefit " because it is good for them and makes them happy " well, you can see where that might lead. If I am doing good for my own benefit, why would I need God? If I can figure out what is in the best interests of myself and my fellow human beings without a holy book or clergy then the book become obsolete and the clergy are out of jobs.

As commenter Holly Staggs pointed out, "Christianity has such a large following because people want to believe in something more, but they want to be able to live how they want....and with the bible you have that flexibility. IMO, it pretty much says whatever you want it to say. Guess it doesn't hurt that if you are a really good speaker/people person there can be large sums of money it too!"

What about you? What motivates you in your life without god and religion?

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
jent0401

Con

Firstly, it's important to define 'God'. God as a word has many variations, according to the Oxford Dictionary, as a noun. The consistent theme however, through those definitions, is that God is something to look up to.
You've then got to ask, 'Something you look up to doesn't want you to be happy'; and I say no. Because no matter how each of us conceptualises 'God', and we all do that differently, unless the individual is nihilistic, what we look up to is an affirmation of something that wants us to be happy. But, we have to define 'happy'.

So then secondly, what do we mean by 'happy'? Happiness is a fortunate bi-product of responsibility and toil. Therefore, unless the individual is nihilistic, what we're looking up to is indeed something that wants us to take on responsibility and toil.

So regardless of what your 'God' is specifically, we know that what we look up to is responsibility and toil, as these components of life are most likely to bring us happiness.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

The definition of god was perfectly defined in the first round you arrogant pick who cannot possibly be more that a yodeling grunge country opera sniffling sponge ground into hamburger roasted duck sauce dust premeditated bar mitzpah boy sheepish boring boredom with bores a boring bore who cannot possible be more that the age of 16 that you obvious are to state such a silly question as you went into your cow dung larvae land and didn't even read the article. Since you didn't this debate cannot continue until you do and thus you get a fricken intelligence and and edumacation of what the f--K you are squawking about.
jent0401

Con

This has to be a troll/irony thing right?
The reason I ask is because you question my intelligence but you can barely apply any coherence yourself.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 1 year ago
DeletedUser
@backwardseden
"God doesn't want you to be happy! "
Actually, God does want us to be happy.
Posted by DeletedUser 1 year ago
DeletedUser
"God doesn't want you to be happy! "
Actually, He does want us to be happy.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Here's the link:

http://www.debate.org...

If you have the guts.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Here's the link:

http://www.debate.org...

If you have the guts.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
I should have known... the coward is not accepting debate challenges. That's fine, I know a workaround.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Ok, I will post a debate on whether or not God would use text. I'll send you a challenge, but you won't have the guts to accept it. And just so you can't get away with denying.the existence of the challenge, I'll post a link in these comments.
Posted by RMTheSupreme 3 years ago
RMTheSupreme
In your rage, God delights.

Understand first that god is a sadist and second that even a sadist can enjoy the pleasure of those who are smarter and braver than the rest in their game.

Dominate with god or perish without her. Yes, her. God is a beautiful woman.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
As stated we're not getting into this again. Just because I'm too good for you, and you lower yourself to that of a teeny bopper level because you CANNOT READ as this article which nullifies that idiotic verse AND proves that YOUR god has a superior ego complex in the process, in which only a pencil neck lump of lard like you would worship a god like that because no supreme deity would ever have an ego in the first place, as you pick your smallpox brain with lumps of diamonds turned to coal. Yeah you can't even post you own debates to prove yourself. so what does that tell the universe about your cowardly acts and actions? Wow imagine this... you could post a debate on why your god would use text. Nah. Bye.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
I never had a chance. You won't let me debate you. I can't really say I blame you considering I would have beaten you here, in the first round, by posting that single Bible verse. You're the one who only debates new members, so you shouldn't be complaining about always debating teenagers-you obviously prefer doing so. Also, I've challenged you many times to let me debate you on the topic of whether or not God would use text. You have ducked the challenge every time. You don't have the guts to debate me. Anyone can see this.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Oh and btw, to add further insult to injury, and you deserve it, you really should watch National Geographic's "One Strange Rock" series to get an idea from experts as to what god is, not from dildo's who wrote your bible in which no god of yours would ever choose text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible.
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