The Instigator
omar2345
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
yoavhazan
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

God is illogical

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
yoavhazan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 899 times Debate No: 119491
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (1)

 

omar2345

Pro

Made this up. Using Bible sources as evidence. Logic is used for the explanation. Circular arguments cannot be given like you are not God how do you know? I can say the same and the conversation goes nowhere. I also used logic since there is still no evidence for God. This is strictly a logical debate. I will allow any form of logic apart from circular logic that show flaws in my arguments. Best way I would say for Con to set out the rebuttals is with a claim, Evidence and explanation.

I will only be tackling 3 attributes and hope my opponent does not go off topic and stays directly on topic.

God is illogical (Bible version (NABRE))

God: the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

Illogical: lacking sense or clear, Sound reasoning.

Omniscience (All-knowing)

Omniscience: the state of knowing everything.

It is illogical for God to do what God does if God is logical.

Evidence of omniscience: Isaiah 46:10 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

At the beginning I declare the outcome;
from of old, Things not yet done.
I say that my plan shall stand,
I accomplish my every desire.

Evidence of wanting to save us: 1 Timothy 2:3-4 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.

Evidence of free will: Ben Sira 15:11-20 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

Do not say: “It was God’s doing that I fell away, ”
for what he hates he does not do.

Do not say: “He himself has led me astray, ”
for he has no need of the wicked.

Abominable wickedness the Lord hates
and he does not let it happen to those who fear him.

God in the beginning created human beings
and made them subject to their own free choice.
If you choose, You can keep the commandments;

loyalty is doing the will of God.
Set before you are fire and water;
to whatever you choose, Stretch out your hand.
Before everyone are life and death,
whichever they choose will be given them.

Immense is the wisdom of the Lord;
mighty in power, He sees all things.
The eyes of God behold his works,
and he understands every human deed.
He never commands anyone to sin,

nor shows leniency toward deceivers.

By God knowing everything. God knows free will does not save people and does not allow them to come to the knowledge of truth. If it did why are there so many people following other Religions or do not follow a Religion? God knowing beforehand someone will go their entire life without being saved goes against what God is said to supposed to do in the Bible which is illogical.

Real world examples of this would be kings. Though they are a thing of a past they still used whatever means to keep control of the kingdom they ran. More present example would be a dictatorship. Kim controls everything people do and makes them believe that Kim is God. By doing this Kim controls the country. Kim is not God but is more capable of controlling North Korea then God is saving people even though the massive difference between them.

Omnipotence

Omnipotence: the quality of having unlimited or very great power.

By God having unlimited or very great power God has no purpose.

Evidence of omnipotence: Psalm 147:5
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE) Great is our Lord, Vast in power, with wisdom beyond measure.

Given that God has unlimited power. God has no purpose. Why does God care about the human race? Since God already knows everything and has unlimited power there is nothing God strives for apart from Its creations happiness? What is the purpose of that? It is illogical to believe that a God for some reason would want to exist even though God has already hit the peak of everything. Meaning God is looking forward to nothing and is what watching us as part of Its amusement (assumption) even though God knows how everything ends.

Real world examples: Science is the pursuit of knowledge. When we have all-knowledge science becomes obsolete. Religion is the pursuit of pleasing of God. When we have pleased God we have little to no use left.

Omnipresence

Omnipresence: the state of being widespread or constantly encountered.

If God is everywhere why can’t we use our five senses to perceive God?

Evidence of omnipresence: Proverbs 15:3 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.

God cannot be perceived using our 5 senses so God is illogical yet the Bible States God is everywhere. Everywhere should include inside our 5 senses yet it does not.

Real world examples: I can see water therefore it is water. I heard shouting therefore someone is shouting. I can taste food. I can smell food. I can touch solid and liquid objects.

This was mainly stuff I came up with using the 3 main attributes.

Would like a Christian to find a way to say God is logical by rebutting claims I made.

May we both learn something new.

yoavhazan

Con

Lets face it, The only thing that we ask billion times is if god is real, And the only thing that side prop says is that the good old bible that exists for thousents of years is the only evidence that god is real and logical, And the charming person who spoke for this motion said that there is no evidence for god however there is tons of evidece for the existence of god.
I will show you three arguments that show you that god is logical and also rebbuts side prop in this motion
The frist point is the good old bible that rebbuts your statement that there is no legit evidence of god
The second point is who is god? Which rebbuts the rest of your speech.
And the last but not least point is the unexplainable events.
First point; the good old bible:
The first evidence that show us that god is logical and real is the good old bible that tells all of the stories that happend many years ago, Perhaps in a rdical and uncorrect way, But it shows us who created the world and if in a more Precise way, Who created the big bang. I can agree that some parts of the bible is ilogicall or redical, But the main thing that it want to show us that god is real is clearly logical and it will get explaind in the rest of the speech.
Second point; who is god? :
The real question we need to ask before we state that god is illogocal, Is who is god? Who created us? God could be an alien which has alot of knowlage and by that it knows everything even the things we can't understand. And those people in the past saw it as thier god and wrote the bible on it.
God could be a human from the far future, And we can asume that humans will get much more smarter than now.
Everything possible and things that we can't answer them not necceserly ilogicall.
The last point; the unexplainable things:
When you see a mirical, That one percent won the rest 99 percent. You see it as a mirical. Overmore things you can't explain how it happend or why. For example, The purpes of life, No one can answer that, Or why we exist. The questions that the answers for them are way beyond us. Things that our creator did. Things that seem for us ilogical but are logical.
Soooooo, To sum up, God is logical and things we can't explain aren't necceserly ilogical.
Debate Round No. 1
omar2345

Pro

The frist point is the good old bible that rebbuts your statement that there is no legit evidence of god
No it didn't. I used the Bible as my source and still proved how illogical God was.

The second point is who is god? Which rebbuts the rest of your speech.
I really wish I had someone who was not trolling. This is not an argument since I gave a definition right at the top.

And the last but not least point is the unexplainable events.
Unexplainable. God is also unexplainable which is another reason why it is illogical,

The first evidence that show us that god is logical and real is the good old bible that tells all of the stories that happend many years ago, Perhaps in a rdical and uncorrect way, But it shows us who created the world and if in a more Precise way, Who created the big bang. I can agree that some parts of the bible is ilogicall or redical, But the main thing that it want to show us that god is real is clearly logical and it will get explaind in the rest of the speech.
Going of topic. Never mentioned the Big bang only God. If parts of the Bible is illogical then it is not the word of God. God cannot do wrong therefore if there is wrong in the Bible it proves it is not the word of God.

God could be a human from the far future, And we can asume that humans will get much more smarter than now.
Everything possible and things that we can't answer them not necceserly ilogicall.
God has 3 main attributes. All-powerful, All-knowing and everywhere. It cannot be a human with those kind of powers and the Bible makes it really clear if you read the evidence I gave.

When you see a mirical, That one percent won the rest 99 percent. You see it as a mirical.
Not a point.

Overmore things you can't explain how it happend or why. For example, The purpes of life, No one can answer that, Or why we exist. The questions that the answers for them are way beyond us. Things that our creator did. Things that seem for us ilogical but are logical.
Soooooo, To sum up, God is logical and things we can't explain aren't necceserly ilogical.
Purpose of life is subjective. You make what you want of it. If we cannot explain something it is illogical.

I guess I am going to re-upload this. Don't worry Con I will stay and answer your rebuttals.
yoavhazan

Con

yoavhazan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
yoavhazan

Con

yoavhazan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@dsjpk5

Since you do not want to provide evidence for what I did don't bother speaking to me until you do provide evidence.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Responding to Omar:

You really are shoving it in my face aren't you?

**What are you talking about?

Knowing that he has not been active for 2 weeks.

***I didn't know that.

This gives an idea that you don't have principles.

*?

You say something and change your mind on a whim.

*** Not true.

Not trying to be consistent instead trying to seem better.

? That's not a complete sentence.

You are not if you haven't noticed you just don't take well to your faith being tested.

*** No one has been testing my faith.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@dsjpk5

You really are shoving it in my face aren't you?
Knowing that he has not been active for 2 weeks.
This gives an idea that you don't have principles.
You say something and change your mind on a whim.
Not trying to be consistent instead trying to seem better.
You are not if you haven't noticed you just don't take well to your faith being tested.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Congratulations, Yoahazan
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@omar2345 - Its not only god but christ of everything is equated to them that there is no such a thing as arguing with them even though they cannot prove either of them exists. So all of their so-called arguments are automatically self defeating even though they don't get it. There's precious little that they do get except their little blank black books in which they clearly misinterpret. They interpret how they want to what they want to whatever suits their wants, Needs and desires. Even if whatever verse says this or that to go against what they believe, They still believe.
"Instead the best approach is to be logical and show verses that make no sense or contradict with each other. " That has ill effect because what they do is they say "That's not a contradiction" and or misconstrue the verse(s) or they change the subject or they ignore it and move on. Now I have no idea how many so-called christians don't read their bibles. But its not many even though they claim of themselves to be christians. Now absolutely and hopefully these people who "think" that they worship a so-called god, Yes hopefully they will realize they will realize their religion is a lie because what do they have other than their bible and gullibility at its finest?
Yep. True. Can't change everyone. But to get through to someone and make them think, Rationalize, Reason, Use common sense, Use logic because their so-called god, Religion and bible has none does make it worth it.
And no! I most certainly don't expect everyone to agree. . . Especially with me! Oh no!
PLease tc and have fun.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@backwardseden

It is really difficult when you equate everything to God.
If you believe everything is created from God I think most of the time there is not a lot you can do to get through to them.
Instead the best approach is to be logical and show verses that make no sense or contradict with each other. If they cannot find an answer to your contradiction eventually they might realise there Religion might be a lie. Oh well. Can't change everyone. Guess in some ways it is good because if everyone did agree with each other conversation would become obsolete. I think so.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Yeah that's only in the U. S. Though. According to the article. But like I said the article I read came from 2015. The article you presented came from 2017.
Now the key is, Is getting intelligent and educated people to understand what you are saying for your ideal of your debate(s). You don't want a jackiebaby, A guitartwang or your current opponent. They simply will say "duh", Slack it off, Be a guitartwang and make every attempt to change the subject as he ---always--- does from the beginning of the debate (bad idea when it comes to me which is why I was very happy to block him) and thus make an attempt to control the debate.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@backwardseden

That argument holds not a lot of weight.
Source: https://www. Statista. Com/statistics/299402/preferred-bible-version-usa/

States that 31% people use the KJV version.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Yeah he's an a$$ for even recommending it. I get the impression that he deliberately recommended it because he knows that it cannot be verified and or easily compared to other translations. That crap that he stated that, Well I don't remember exactly what he stated, But something like "its the most popular version", Or whatever he's full of s--t.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@backwardseden

Only using it for GuitarSlinger since he did ask for it.

Mainly I stick to the KJV since most Christians I have seen tend to agree on it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
omar2345yoavhazanTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Omar has challenged me to a vote off, apparently. If at any time he wishes this to stop, he should let me know

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