The Instigator
Purushadasa
Pro (for)
The Contender
RoderickChinaski
Con (against)

God-realization is Intellectually Superior to the Belief in atheist Dogma

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/14/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,785 times Debate No: 103460
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (33)
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Purushadasa

Pro

Regarding the atheistic inability to apprehend certain facts about God's position as the source for existence, it is impossible for any entity to be the source for any quality unless it possesses that quality itself. No food that contains no iron, for example, can possibly be a source of iron. Similarly, no entity that contains no personal characteristics, no intellectual phenomena such as logic or reason, no love, and no life of its own, three qualities that the believer in atheist Dogma believes the universe lacked at some point, could possibly be the source of such qualities in any other entity, regardless of how comparatively small or large that entity is.

The believer in atheist Dogma believes that the universe is the source, however, and that belief is 100% illogical.

We are faced with the following two mutually exclusive world-views:

1. We Theological Realists understand that God is the Original Archetype, or source, for all observable phenomena, including intellectual phenomena, such as reason and logic, and emotional phenomena, such as love. He is infinitely complete with eternal life of His own, and He possesses both personal and impersonal characteristics, as well as love, eternally. This is a logically sound account for life, for logic and reason, for love, and for all personal and impersonal observable phenomena.

2. The believer in atheist Dogma believes that God is not the original personal archetype. Instead, the believer in atheist Dogma attributes this role, using varying semantic constructs, to "the universe." Unfortunately, the universe that the believer in atheist Dogma claims supposedly gave rise to life, logic, reason, love, and all personal characteristics was, according to the believer in atheist Dogma, supposedly devoid of all these phenomena at some unspecified time that he theorizes is prior to the hypothetical advent of such phenomena. The atheistic claim is logically unsound when it comes to accounting for clearly observable life, clearly observable intellectual phenomena such as logic and reason, clearly observable love, and clearly observable personal phenomena.

CONCLUSION:

Therefore, we Theological Realists' world-view is logically superior to that of the believer in atheist Dogma, and any truly unbiased and logically savvy party must necessarily accept this fact. Lack of scriptural or logical refutation of these facts shows acceptance by any and all who post in this thread.

Proof is different from persuasion, and I have posted proof here, not persuasion.

No proof will ever persuade the believer in atheist Dogma of anything, as he has already come to his unscientific and premature conclusion (that God somehow doesn't exist), without even engaging in the first step of the scientific method in regards to God, what to speak of the other steps. The believer in atheist Dogma's irrational obsession with his premature conclusion precludes his ability to assess the facts in an honest and unbiased manner, which is something that I, unlike the believer in atheist Dogma, have managed to accomplish.

I do not expect to persuade the believer in atheist Dogma, just as I do not expect to persuade the pig, the fruit-fly, the pile of feces, or the slime-mold, but the proof is conclusive regardless of the mental handicaps of such unfortunate parties. The mental inability of the lower animal and the believer in atheist Dogma to apprehend the proof does not change the fact that it is conclusive proof. I know beforehand that the believer in atheist Dogma will cling to his premature, unscientific, and untrue conclusions about God, and I have no problem with that. None of it changes the fact that I have posted conclusive proof here.
RoderickChinaski

Con

The world surely does present us with many incomprehensible phenomena, but one of the most striking ones must be the modern theists" inability to accept the scientific method, and the findings thereof as realities, instead of simply writing them off as either confusion of the nonbelievers, or as further proof of "the true genius of God". Indeed, since the entry of the modern sciences, arguments for the existence of any religion"s god have rested solemnly on a frail philosophical foundation. All of the major religions are losing ground even in the historical aspects of the debate, a field previously dominated by the theists and used as one of their strongest points. Thus, the great and almighty God has been reduced to nothing more than a mere thought experiment, but if this shall indeed be his final resting place, so be it!
In this particular endeavor to defeat all scientific research by thoughts of "logic" alone, the main argument goes as follows:

1. It is impossible for any entity to be the source for any quality unless it possesses that quality itself.

2. Personal characteristics such as logic, reason, and love exist.

3. In atheist dogma, the universe must have lacked logic, reason, and love at some point.

4. Therefore, it would be illogical to claim, within the limits of atheist dogma, that the universe could have been the source of logic, reason, or love.

As stated before, the argument for God (who is nothing more than a philosophical thought experiment) must once again take the form of a thought experiment itself - an experiment claiming to be based on logic. However, this so-called "logic" is poorly researched and as a result hereof very flawed. The very premise of the argument, that no entity can possibly be the source of any quality unless it is already in possession of that quality, does not comply with the observable world around us. Take for example water (H2O) which consists, as the chemical formula suggests, of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. Neither oxygen nor hydrogen is in any way in "possession" of water, and yet when combined water is indeed created.
Now, the quick thinker might reason that the previously stated "source for quality" argument was simply implying that no personal or psychological quality, such as love or logic, could possibly be passed on by an entity lacking either quality. This would indeed make the "water argument" useless, even ridicules, if it wasn"t for the fact that the presenter of the "source for quality" argument gave the following example to support his claim: "No food that contains no iron, for example, can possibly be a source of iron". As iron is neither a psychological nor a personal quality, the argument must also include physical objects, such as water.
Now, let"s pretend for a minute that the "source for quality" argument is still standing strong. More holes are still to be found in its weakening shell. The very premise of the argument was logically fragile, but the third part (In atheist dogma, the universe must have lacked logic, reason, and love at some point) is quite simply based on poor research. The atheist dogma is not claiming that the universe has ever lacked logic. It must indeed have lacked logical thought at some point, of course, as the very concept of thoughts has not always existed, but the universe certainly never lacked logic itself. In fact, natural science, upon which atheist dogma is based, explains how the natural laws of the universe are, and always have been dictated by logic. This logic of natural principles would thus be the reasoning of everything within the universe, including love. This today most basic human emotion is, in reality, an evolutionary mechanism, a chemical reaction in the brain. The feeling of being in love can be boiled down to neurotransmitters and hormones, such as dopamine, oxytocin, and a closely related neuropeptide called vasopressin, mixing in the brain. As Abigail Marsh, a professor at Georgetown University puts it: "Nature"s imperative is that we reproduce and love is one of the mechanisms nature has put in place to make sure that we do that."
Hormones, like water, are chemical compounds consisting of atoms. Atoms and the molecules that they form are, like everything else, subject to the laws of physics, which, once again, are dictated by the logic of the universe. Thus, love is a product of the logic that has always existed in the universe, and therefore, even if the premise of the "source for quality" argument should be widely accepted, the remainders of the argument would still fail to deliver an acceptable conclusion.

As it should now be clear, the so-called "Theological Realists" still have not produced a single shred of scientifically acceptable evidence for the existence of God. Now, some might argue, that I, along with every other atheist have also failed to deliver a convincing argument that ultimately disproves the existence of God, at least of the vaguely described and rather abstract idea that God has been reduced to. Of course, they would be right in this claim, but as many have hopefully realized on their own; very few atheists have actually tried to produce such an argument. This is because atheists believe in the scientific method, and when a new concept (such as the existence of God) is introduced to a scientific community, it is up to the presenters to provide sufficient proof of their concept, instead of simply expecting the observers to disprove it. This is a key part of modern science, for which the reasoning should be easily understandable to most individuals.
It is, therefore up to the theists to prove the existence of their god, whichever god it might be, and not up to the atheists to disprove the existence of all supreme beings. How would we even do that?
Realizing these facts and key concepts of logical, scientific thought, would most likely lead one to the conclusion that the existence of God can be neither proven nor disproven. Understanding and agreeing with this, would by the technical definition make one an agnostic. This is a term that compromises between science and theology and that should satisfy most people believing in the former, as the existence of God cannot be disproven, in the same way, that the existence of the ancient Greek gods cannot be disproven either.
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Debate Round No. 4
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
atheistic trolls are singularly unintelligent, and have absolutely nothing of value to add to any conversation.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
OMG!! canis that just cracked me up LOL!!!
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
The realization of Santa is when you are not well..
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
The belief in atheist Dogma is a belief system, not a "lack of beliefs."

Someone wrote:

"And what is to say you have no beliefs @Purushadasa?"

I have no beliefs.

"You BELIEVE in at least 1 deity/ God."

No, actually, I know that God exists -- belief and disbelief do not enter into it. You, conversely, believe that God does not exist, but that is your faith-based religious belief, not observable science.

" You believe an all powerful God impregnated a virgin with himself so he could later sacrifice himself to himself to forgive YOU for a sin you haven't yet/ at all committed."

I am not even a Christian, you ridiculous moron.

I won the debate: Thanks for your time! =)
Posted by byaka2013 3 years ago
byaka2013
Atheist-

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

There is no belief- there is LACK OF BELIEF.

And what is to say you have no beliefs @Purushadasa?

You BELIEVE in at least 1 deity/ God. You believe an all powerful God impregnated a virgin with himself so he could later sacrifice himself to himself to forgive YOU for a sin you haven't yet/ at all committed.

Sorry, but you lost the debate. Take your meds.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
Someone wrote:

"You do have beliefs.'

No I don't.

"Why are atheists not real?"

In order to be an actual atheist, someone would have to believe that God actually does not exist. Nobody actually believes that. Therefore there is no such thing as an actual atheist in reality.
Posted by byaka2013 3 years ago
byaka2013
You do have beliefs.

Why are atheists not real?

Your only arguments are 'OMG STRAW MAN FALLACY', '____ cannot happen without God', and 'no it doesn't'
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
Someone wrote: "an imaginary delusion."

Without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between the real and the imaginary, and without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between reality and delusion.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
Someone wrote:

"His stance seems to be that he can account for reason, becuase a magic man"

I never made such a statement, so that is a straw man logical fallacy on your part. Actually, the believers in atheist Dogma on this site know that they cannot address my actual arguments without being utterly defeated, so they constantly avoid my actual arguments (as you did, above) by resorting to straw man logical fallacies, and instead of addressing my actual arguments, their main argument seems to be that straw man logical fallacy wins them debates -- it does not.

"where we cannot account for reason."

Without God, you cannot account for objective reasoning, actually.

" I would argue (as an atheist)"

There is no such thing as an atheist, actually.

" that we live in an Objective Universe,"

Without God, nobody could make a valid distinction between the objective and the subjective.

" where we can account for reason, logic and emergent qualities such as love"

Without God, nobody could objectively account for any of those things.

"because Atheism is true."

Without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between the true and the false.

"Not all atheists are extreme skeptics"

There is no such thing as an atheist, actually.

"Athiesm is the denial of a positive claim"

Denials of claims are also claims, numbnuts! The problem is that you have no evidence for any of your silly atheistic claims.

"not a dogmatic assertion."

Yes, atheistic claims are all evidence-free, Dogmatic assertions with no evidence in their support, actually.

" It seems to me that you are reflecting your own dogma"

I have no dogma, actually.

"in your belief system."

I have no beliefs.

I won this debate: Thanks for your time! =)
Posted by Masterful 3 years ago
Masterful
Posting 10 debates does not show a rich world view, especially when they all concern an imaginary delusion.

You should go after quality not quantity. :)
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