The Instigator
Dr.Franklin
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
Lawliet4
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Gun Control Laws affect blacks negatively

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/15/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 107 times Debate No: 120836
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
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Dr.Franklin

Pro

My position is above. Gun control in the United States is based on a long history of discrimination which continues to this day. While blacks were the first targets of gun control measures, Different racial ethnic minorities have been targeted over time, And today the poor now face economic discrimination in many gun control laws.
Lawliet4

Con

To begin this debate, I would like to dismantle your argument to make it easier for readers (including myself) to comprehend. If you see any flaws with what I believe is your argument, Feel free to correct me. Here goes:

The title of the debate is "Gun Control Laws affect blacks negatively". Upon reading this, My initial conclusion was: "Oh, He must think gun control laws were made in a racist manner, Or with racist intent", But considering that my objective is to provide a counter argument, I have to analyze every possible debate. Due to the way the title is worded, You could easily argue that racism isn't involved at all, And that gun control laws simply happen to affect African Americans (and yes, I'm sure somewhere in the world, Some African American has been affected negatively). However, In Round 1 of the debate, You mention discrimination, And gun control specifically targeting "ethnic minorities", So for the sake of the debate, I will assume you are arguing that gun control laws are, In fact, Made with racist intent towards African Americans (feel free to correct that)

The primary flaw I see in your argument is what is seemingly an inability to distinguish the difference between economic discrimination (specifically with gun control laws), And gun control laws targeting ethnic minorities. When you say gun control was used in a racist manner in the past, I assume you are referring to the "Black Codes" the southern states passed after the civil war in order to disarm slaves and maintain white supremacy. This is obvious racism, But more importantly, It is NOT what is happening today. As I said before, I believe you fail to distinguish the difference between economic discrimination and racism, So I would like to separate them for you:

Racism, By definition, Is prejudice, Discrimination, Or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Economic discrimination on the other hand, Is the concept that raising the price of a certain product will prevent minorities from using it. Since most crime comes from the lower levels of the economy, It would seem like raising the prices past what they can afford is an easy solution. To an extent, Yes, This is discrimination, But it is NOT racism in any way. This concept was put in place to keep the guns out of the hands of the criminals, And into the hands of hard-working citizens (whether or not it works is another argument). Just because African Americans may be the minority, And Caucasians may generally be higher-class citizens does NOT mean these laws were put in place to discriminate. Nobody sat in congress thinking to themselves "How can I create prejudice, Discriminate, And antagonistic laws directed against African Americans to maintain my own racial superiority? " to come up with the idea of economic discrimination. And if you really think it's as simple as: less guns for poor people + African Americans are the minority of poor people = racism, Then you have to reevaluate what you consider racism.

To end this round, I want you to ask yourself: "If Caucasians were the minority, And African Americans were at the top of economic discrimination, Would I still think it's racism? "

I apologize if I came off blunt in some of my arguments by the way, I get passionate when I write. As I mentioned, I had some difficulty understanding your initial argument, So feel free to revise as needed. I wish you the best of luck. . .
Debate Round No. 1
Dr.Franklin

Pro

CON has failed to regonize the context of discrimination.

discrimination- treatment or consideration of, Or making a distinction towards, A person based on the group, Class, Or category to which the person is perceived to belong.

My argument was that gun control laws is discriminative which isn't always with racist intent. As well as the title should've implied the context provided.

The question you provided is interesting. Does the historical context apply? , Is White on White Crime bigger than Black On Black? , Are there parallels with blacks and whites? , Do many of the variables apply?

First, Lets dive into the history!

{--SOUTHERN GUN CONTROL--}
Gun control existed in North America even before the creation of the US and was racially motivated in its earliest forms. The first law in the colony of Virginia that mentioned African-Americans was a 1664 act that barred free blacks from owning firearms.

Another pre-Revolutionary example is "An Act for the Better Ordering of Negroes and Slaves"
signed by South Carolina in 1712 which included provisions addressing firearm ownership by blacks.

The Nat Turner rebellion in August of 1831 was the realization of slave owner"s greatest fears. Over 70 slaves and free blacks took part in an uprising that killed at least 57 white people before it was finally put down. This prompted a number of Southern states to adopt measures that would restrict blacks from owning guns. For example, Delaware instituted a law in December of 1831 that required free blacks to obtain a firearms license if they wished to have weapons. In the same month Maryland and Virginia passed laws that prohibited free blacks from carrying guns. Georgia soon followed by barring free blacks from firearm ownership entirely in 1833.

The racist laws passed following the rebellion were reactionary response passed primarily out of fear of blacks, Free or not. This trend of restricting the firearm rights of those perceived as a threat to the established powers of society will continue throughout the history of the United States.

The Civil War and the passage of the 13th, 14th, And 15th amendments were supposed to give African-American"s the same rights as all other US citizens. Just as the South found ways to keep black people from voting, It also found ways to ensure that they remained unarmed and vulnerable to coercion by violence. The adoption of "Black Codes" by Southern legislatures directly contradicted the spirit and letter of these newly enacted amendments, But were enforced anyway. Although Black Codes applied to many different aspects of life, One of its major aims was to keep blacks from possessing firearms. For example, Mississippi Black Code states: "Be it enacted. . . That no freedman, Free Negro or mulatto, Not in the military. . . And not licensed so to do by the board of police of his or her county, Shall keep or carry firearms of any kind, Or any ammunition. "

There are many more examples but I think you got the point. Gun control laws have been racist to blacks in the past and in the south.

{--GUN CONTROL IN THE NORTH--}
Efforts to tighten gun control laws in the North only began in response to a dramatic rise in immigration. Prior to this period it was socially acceptable for an upper class man to carry a small pocket pistol to protect himself from criminals. The perceived need for stricter gun control laws coincided with the arrival of Eastern and Southern Europeans who were commonly viewed as "criminal elements" in society. Armed robbery was frequently attributed to immigrants and
"foreign-born anarchists". These prejudices were perpetuated by groups such as the Immigration Restriction League and the American Protective Association, Which supported a ban on all firearm ownership by aliens.

The first widespread restrictions on firearm ownership in the North came in New York City, Which was the hub of European immigration. Efforts had been underway for a number of years to slowly push the public into accepting gun control. For example, A newspaper editorial from the time states that pistols were found "chiefly in the pockets of ignorant and quarrelsome immigrants of law breaking propensities. " The culmination of these efforts was the passage of the Sullivan Law on May 29, 1911. Senator Sullivan declared the bill would "do more to carry out the commandment thou shalt not kill and save more souls than all the talk of all the ministers and priest in the state for the next ten years. " The year before the Sullivan Law was passed there were 108 homicides in New York City, And the year after its implementation there were 113.

Despite its shortcomings, The idea of police issued gun permits spread throughout the United States. Between 1911 and 1934 Arkansas, Hawaii, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, North Carolina and Oregon all passed laws similar to the Sullivan Law. California and New Hampshire went as far as banning aliens from owing firearms. A 1918 ruling by a New Hampshire court which upheld the alien gun ban

So in conclusion: Gun control laws have historically been discriminatory.
{--CURRENT RESTRICTIONS--}
New York City is still home to some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation which are in effect highly discriminatory against the poor. The city still requires a permit to purchase a gun, Just as it did when the Sullivan Law was passed in 1911. At that time, The police could simply deny certain people permits based on ethnicity, Something that would not be allowed today. Instead, New York City has created a set of requirements that virtually ensures that the poor will be unable to secure a permit. The process of applying is time consuming and complicated. The city requires that the permit be submitted in person, Monday through Friday, 8:30 a. M. To 3:30 p. M. At the licensing division. This means if someone works a 9-5 job that they will have to take time off from work and get to Manhattan to submit an application. Taking time off work may be impossible for poor people.

New York City still makes the permitting process difficult for immigrants as well. One requirement is: Proof of Citizenship/Alien Registration: If you were born outside the United States, You must submit your naturalization papers or evidence of citizenship if derived from your parents. All other applicants born outside the United States must submit their Alien Registration Card. If you have lived in this country less than 7 years you must submit a good conduct certificate, Or equivalent, From your country of origin and two (2) letters of reference that certify to your good character.

No rationale or justification could be found for the additional requirements imposed on alien residents of less than seven years, And the seven year standard appears on its face to be arbitrary and simply intended to discourage foreign born people from applying for a gun permit. The most effective measure to keep the poor from owning guns is the cost to apply for the permit. The application fee is $340 and the applicant must also be fingerprinted at an additional cost of $94. 25. These costs seem deliberately prohibitive considering that it costs less then $100 to register a car in New York.

Public housing often experiences disproportionately high rates of crime, So removing guns from these areas appears to be a well meaning remedy. Public housing gun bans therefore results in law abiding residents being disarmed even though they were committing a minority of the crimes in the area and were frequently the victims of the crimes involved.

Many black communities have been hit by poverty and crime. Getting a gun is the only way to protect yourself. Blacks with guns have been discriminated in some cases of Police Brutality as well as jurisdiction sentences. Today, White people are 14x times more likely to own a gun than blacks and its showing. Places with a majority black or hispanic population with strict gun control, Don't help blacks but hurt them.
Lawliet4

Con

Lawliet4 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Dr.Franklin

Pro

Nothing to say
Lawliet4

Con

Lawliet4 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Dr.Franklin

Pro

Nothing to say
Lawliet4

Con

Lawliet4 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 week ago
Dr.Franklin
ok
Posted by Lawliet4 1 week ago
Lawliet4
Thanks, Best of luck. This is my first debate on this account, But not on this website.
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 week ago
Dr.Franklin
My argument is all typed up and ready you move
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 week ago
Dr.Franklin
I also meant to add minorities in the title
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