The Instigator
curiousegoose
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Gun Control

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
curiousegoose
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 709 times Debate No: 111994
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

curiousegoose

Pro

1. Opening
2. Argument
3. Rebuttals

This is my first time debating on this website so bear with me. My fundamental views are as follow: I believe that we should repeal the second amendment (which I realize won't do much other than curtail the NRA's power), we should then ban the sale of all guns (including all semi-automatic guns, although probably not shotguns)- just as Japan has. This would make it so that a person must pass through rigorous vetting and testing in order to obtain a gun license. Then, and only then, should someone have a gun. So essentially, we should adopt Japans gun control methods where they have the least amount of gun violence/homicides per capita of any country other than Signapore (where they also have intensely stringent gun laws). Now I realize that the things I have stated above are relatively implausible for the United States, but I am merely stating the logical steps that would achieve the goal of less gun violence in the U.S. To end off: We are essentially the only other country with this epidemic of mass shootings (unless you want to cite Norway or Albania) neither of which are nowhere as advanced of a country as we are. I mean surely you cannot say that this is a people issue and not a gun issue because there are obviously people with mental illnesses in Japan or Australia--but we are not seeing mass shootings there.

Thank you to whoever wants to respond.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

I welcome you and certainly wish you well. The cry for Gun Control is a Fools Errand, as the founding Fathers LEARNED precisely what disarming its citizens means for any Civilized institutional Government. Indeed the Move to the NEW WORLD was prompted by a Government that squashed its citizens, leaving them HELPLESS to defend themselves from a rogue Government.

What have we learned today? Obviously nothing! Government has been proven to be crooked, corrupt and self seeking at it's HIGHEST LEVELS. Now you wish to DISABLE the citizens of this country from the ability to DEFEND itself against a Corrupt Government which has ALREADY DEMONSTRATED its proclivities of removing YOUR FREEDOMS , slowly at first now in GIANT LEAPS.

remember Free Speech? GONE!, Remember The pursuit of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? GONE! Remember OWNING a Business? GONE unless you RUN IT THEIR WAY! A Government perpetually giving THEMSELVES raises and EXEMPTING THEMSELVES from the Laws they PASS!

That your "not" paying attention like 55+ MILLION others is distressing, but certainly in keeping with The Bibles description of the LAST DAYS spoken of in Revelation ... the WORSE PARTS. But that's not the topic.
Suffice it to say that you have not, cannot and will not find a single Reliable source to support your hysteria, BUT ... this should be entertaining?


Debate Round No. 1
curiousegoose

Pro

Yes, and hopefully this will be entertaining and thank you very much for responding.

I would like to address your slippery-slope argument. First off, we live in America--possibly the freest nation on earth and I doubt that we will experience any government tyranny as you describe in our lifetime. Nevertheless, are you more afraid of potential government tyranny than mass shootings in schools and movie theaters? This ability to take the lives of mass amounts of people at once is the true tyranny.

Also, even if the government was in the state of tyranny that you describe, couldn't they easily demolish us with their tanks, RPG's, and infantry weapons of the like? I mean I do not see how our weapons would be effective in the least whilst protecting ourselves from a potentially tyrannical government.

Also, just in curiosity, how is our freedom of speech stripped from us? As well as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

You say that I am not "paying attention" to 55+ million people but that is certainly untrue. I believe that working to drastically lower the homicide rate in our country is definitely in the interest of ALL Americans. I mean, If you look at Japan (again, they have practically abolished guns in the country), they have close to 5 gun deaths per year. Now if you compare this to America, we have close to 34,000 gun-related deaths every year. To the latest data available from both countries, the U.S. has about 11 gun deaths per 100,000 compared to Japan's 0. If you would like to have a look, here you go: http://www.bbc.com.... This, I would say, is not "protecting" us, but moreso maiming us as a country (literally and metaphorically).

Another study that was very interesting, done by Harvard, found that the amount of guns in a country directly correlates with the suicide rate. For example, "Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School"s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent"as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns"rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower."

Lastly, I want to touch on the second amendment. If you look at the United States history, limitations on guns have been implemented for over 200 years, which is how the 2nd amendment was understood until the Heller case with Justice Scalia in a 5 to 4 vote. In these 200 years, the 2nd amendment was never seen as an independent right as many claim it is, but rather as a right to a "well-regulated militia" as stated in the 2nd Amendment. One example of this is the ruling in 1989 where the Supreme Court unanimously decided that Congress could prohibit the possession of a "sawed-off shotgun" because that particular weapon had no reasonable relation to the efficiency or preservation of a "well-regulated militia."

*Also, Justice Scalia's justification in the Heller decision in 2008 was that individuals had the right to bear arms so that they could then bring those arms to finally contribute them to the militia. Don't you see? Guns were only originally granted for the ultimate purpose of forming a militia.

Again, I would like to thank you for joining this debate.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

Ahh Remembering the days when I too was NAIVE! Blessfully ignorant, Living Life in a Dream state? No matter, I will adress your comments at the end, so we can egin the debate itself.

The point is that your completely hallucinating and in a hysterical state of delusional Thinking. Sadly the Majority of the Country is in th SAME state as you?

Running around wringing their hands .... the SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING ..... I'M GOING TO BE KILLED! YAHHHHHHH!

Oh Please! Try growing up a little. Developing a SPINE, perhaps. Try to work on cultivating COURAGE instead of giving IN TO COWARDICE! Sigh! My goodness what are we gonna do when the NEXT war hits? Obviously Run into the sea in a Blind Panic no doubt!

The FACTS are indesputable to anyone with a Brain and a modicum of intelligence;

Lesson #1. US POPULATION

https://www.google.com...

325.7 million (2017)

Lesso#2. Schools

https://nces.ed.gov...

Public schools= 98,271

Private schools=33,619

Postsecondary Title IV institutions=7,236

Degree-granting institutions= 4,724

TOTAL: 143,850 Schools in the United States

Lesson #3. ACTUAL FACTS

https://www.cnn.com...

Number of School Shootings this year = 17

Paranoia Level 100% your MORE likely to get HIT by a BUS! Than shot in a school!

Wanna do the math? 17 is what percentage of 143,850 schools? Care to guess? Hint 0.0? of US schools?

True percentage = 0.011817865832464372 percent of the US schools.

https://www.thetrace.org...

15,549 people were killed by guns in the United States in 2017

Wanna do the Math?

15,549 people out of 325.7 MILLION is what … care to guess?

Hint 0.0?

Actual percentage= 0.0176542831

THERE IS NO GUN PROBLEM PEOPLE! Just 99% paranoid negative nellies! Gutless wonders pretending to be Adults, but in need of putting on their BIG BOY panties and losing their Huggies?

They HAVE PILLS for that folks … get ON THEM before you ENSLAVE US ALL. Pretty please!


As to your serious Delusion of the FREEST Nation? You Understand that FREEST NATION doesn't mean FREE, JUST FREE-ER than most! But That DOESN'T signify FREE!

But Let's investigate your assertions against mine.

you urge 1.we live in America--possibly the freest nation on earth!

FACT#1 Freedom of Religion? GONE!

Remember WHEN? And get USED to hearing THAT! The ten commandments and the Bible was taught in school's?

now it's two MOM's or two Dads, Or Islam ... no other Religions mind you ... just ISLAM.

The rewrote the constitution, to facilitate whom? THE MINIORTY!

The Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014, 22.8% of the U.S. population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the U.S. population. The 2014 General Social Survey reported that 21% of Americans had no religion with 3% being atheist and 5% being agnostic.

280 million Christians
About 62% of those polled claim to be members of a church congregation. The United States has the largest Christian population in the world, with nearly 280 million Christians, although other countries have higher percentages of Christians among their populations.

Remember WHEN you satt down and wait for buses, and there would be a sign with Jesus on it? GONE!, Ten Coomandments, in God we trust all over the place, Statues saluting our rich History, freedom to fly conferate flags, I could keep goig but ... you get the point. So WHOSE NOT paying attention? YOU or Me.


I'm sure you can do the math, but lets point out that 22.8% is no where near 62%, yet YOUR FREEST NATION on Earth, crapped on that freedom.

LGBT make up 4% of the population and is being SHOVED down the mouths of the MAJORITY! Here we have lost virtually all freedoms.

Cheeck it. Post a sign on anti LGBT you
will not only BE arrested, fined and Jailed, but villified ... and for what?

"Gallup polling show that 4 percent of Americans are LGBT." Did you get that?
96% of Americans are being FORCED to acquiesce 4% of the population? And yeah, it IS proveable perversion nothing more but that's another story.

Freedom of speech you say? Do you NOT own a TV. College Students walk out in MASS everytime they get their feelings hurt or someone with an opposing View steps up on stage! Free speech? We are breeding a bunch of spineless Americans, thankfully the NEXT WAR will be here and we won't have to TRY and find someone with a spine to fight, because they will be few and far inbetween! Course you may win and the attacking Army will have a field day shooting UNARMED Americans.

OWN a Business? Remember when you could REFUSE SERVICE? Not any more. The United States .... the so called FREEst Nation, will SHUT your business down for denying service to ONE LGBT person ... a 4% of the population.

So do you own the business? NO the Government ALLOWS YOU to say you own it, but attempt to run it YOUR way, and they shut you down!

Remember when you could smoke where ever you liked? Not anymore ... The Freest nation took that freedom from people as well .... ahh so much for LIBERTY eh?

you see Liberty is doing what you please! IT IS PAINFULLY obvious, you CANNOT do as you please. Though there WAS a TIME? But we lost that while the majority of the populace like You? continued to sleep!

AHHH the NAIVE of the World. Bunch of tree hugging Babes. But? you bring the destruction all on yourselves by failure to grow. I think its called a failure to Thrive. No matter, I was just reminiscing.

As to your uhhm ARGUMENT? Trash ... ALL of it! You Got no legs to stand on as I said before. A bunch of babies crying in their soup singing the blues? Naivety is THY NAME!

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.






Debate Round No. 2
curiousegoose

Pro

Rebuttal: I will now go through your arguments one by one:

Thank you, but I am fully aware of the U.S. population and have no idea what this proves. I have shown you statistics compared to another nation (Japan) where our annual gun crime and homicides are significantly higher PER 100,000 PEOPLE. So citing our population is silly.

Next, you point to the number of schools compared to the number of school shootings in the U.S. I'm sorry, but this is absurd. You could list the number of schools in Australia or the UK for that matter, and see that there are 0 school shootings. You brush school shootings off like they are nothing. ONE IS ENOUGH! We are the only developed country with this epidemic.

Then you go on to say that there isn't a gun problem in the U.S. through citing that only 15,549 people out of 325.7 MILLION were killed by guns in 2017. Is that not enough? I mean look at other developed countries like the U.K., Australia, and Japan and compare their statistics (as I did in my opening argument).

You also say that "your MORE likely to get HIT by a BUS! Than shot in a school!" This is an utterly illogical statement as Buses are not made with the intention for the driver to then go and kill people, but rather to transport from point A to point B. This is untrue for guns, which are purely designed for the purpose of killing and maiming.

As for the latter half of your argument, it isn't even on the subject. You go on tangential rants about how religion has been taken away from certain aspects of life like that has any bearing on whether we live in a free nation or not. For example, you say, "Remember WHEN"you satt down and wait for buses, and there would be a sign with Jesus on it?"GONE!,"Ten Coomandments, in God we trust all over the place, Statues saluting our rich History, freedom to fly conferate flags." Now this is pure religious nonsense with no bearing on the gun control argument whatsoever.

Now at the end of your argument, you say things like "As to your uhhm ARGUMENT? Trash." So essentially you have not provided any valid statistics other than inanely obvious things like our population!

Your arguments have been 98 percent emotion thus far with practically no statistics to back you up.

Thanks anyways.

P.S. I agree with your statement about college campuses and the college snowflakes. While we do have freedom of speech, there are definitely people trying to abridge it, and we must fight together against that.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

I think your emotional breakdown is more than suffficent to prove my point. Emotional nonsence.

Pro quotes-"but I am fully aware of the U.S. population and have no idea what this proves."

This PROVES your immature view on all matters. That your prone to over-react on everything, therefore should "not" be taken seriously as you live completely in a fictitous World created by your own mind, and "not" reality!

It IS the reason YOU do "not" get to vote!

to believe that you live in a world where 0 Murders are attainable is madness and instability of mental facilties!

That we HAVE only 0.01% of the total population of the United States murdered (15,549) is a God send, yet you view it as something catastophic, yet say "nothing of the 926,200 abortions were performed in 2014, Killed legally by your government? They have since quit counting and just kill them since you don't obviously care about them?

Whose the real blind one here?

Pro states "ONE IS ENOUGH!"

926,200 abortions? But not enough for you? I'd say your prejudice comes out loud and clear! Killing BABIES is okay, but not students? Why? are they of MORE worth than those Babies? Not to me they are not!

You see I am AWARE of the World and it's evils. I know where we are headed, and the end result of those who do NOT know God. It isn't going to end well, one need only read the last chapter of the Bible to know that?

School shootings of merely 0.01% of the total Schools in the United States? Is a God send, not a catastrophe!

People DIE every where by reason of Evil people. You don't want God in Society so you have to accept the consequences living next to the people you WANT living next to you. People who Live life only for themselves, who will lie, cheat, steal, at YOUR expense every day of the week. I hope your happy?

God is out ... murders, liars, cheaters, and perversion is IN. congratulations.

We must use reason and common sense, (none of which you have been showing since your opening statement). Governing is responsibility and reason, not emotional outbursts such as is occurring now.

0.01% isn't a problem on any level and Laws MUST NOT be initiated on such nonexistent numbers.

Statistically. speaking:
http://asirt.org...
Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.

I don't see you crying to outlaw cars? They to are not made for Killing people but ... you see how quickly your excuses fall apart when viewed with reason instead of wet your pants emotion?


https://www.cancer.gov...
Cancer-595,690 people will die from the disease.Mar 22, 2017
over 1.8 Million new diagnosed each year

https://www.healthyplace.com...
Nearly 5.3 million incidents of domestic violence occur annually among US women aged 18 years and older, with 3.2 million occurring among men

Yeah, we got problems .... but GUNS, is not the problem. Snap out of it people!

Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
you see?
Fools ... voting without intelligence, pure irresponsible emotionalism. Hehehe

Even with Statistics showing the facts that 0.01% of the population actually die by Gun violence while 0.28% Die by the abortionist, didn't make a dent in that steel dome of stupidity!
Again ... stupidity the Condition, not the insult! I rest my case, on why Winning a debate? is totaally without merit or redeeming quality whatsoever! The Voters are Fools, nothing More ... is it surprising Hell awaits them?

hehehe.
Posted by ILikePie5 3 years ago
ILikePie5
It has also prevented 300,000 instances of crime. And that's the conservative estimate. 20x more lives/crimes have been prevented because of guns..
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
There is no Gun problem people. Stop looking with your emotions and look at the REAL data!

325.7 Million Population

15, 549 Gun Deaths last year ... that's 0.01% of 325.7 Million

17 School shootings out of 143,850 Schools, that's also 0.01% of schools.

Your more likely to get HIT by a Bus than shot in a school!

Take a Pill people!
Posted by curiousegoose 3 years ago
curiousegoose
Amphia, I know that almost all handguns are semi's and never said otherwise. Also, fully auto guns are already banned. Thanks for the comment though.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Britain ban guns, Northern Ireland did not. They are similar in many regards since they are so close.

Who has higher homicide rates? Britain.
Posted by ILikePie5 3 years ago
ILikePie5
@Amphia, I would disagree. The problem doesn't lie with guns. It lies with the individual who is misusing it. If a drunk driver crashes into another car killing 4, you don't blame the car, you blame the person. Moreover, why are you punishing thousands of law abiding citizens for the actions of a few lunatics?
Posted by Amphia 3 years ago
Amphia
I'm all for gun control but there is a difference between gun control and banning guns. Banning guns would never work.

"we should then ban the sale of all guns (including all semi-automatic guns, although probably not shotguns)"

Actually, most handguns are semiautomatic. If you ban them, you're banning most handguns lol. We should ban fully automatic guns from the public (only military needs them to be honest) and then make getting any other type of gun much harder.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by BeckyDawg 3 years ago
BeckyDawg
curiousegooseFollowerofChrist1955Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: As pro stated, con made a lot of irrelevant arguments. Con's demeanor was also a bit unpleasant. Didn't seem to stay on topic.

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