The Instigator
VoiceforLaurence
Pro (for)
The Contender
FrenchFlugel
Con (against)

Hardly anyone knows about John .L. Laurens, should he be in history more often?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2018 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 923 times Debate No: 112703
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

VoiceforLaurence

Pro

The issue on the table, should general John .L. Laurens be in history books

The opposers have the floor...
FrenchFlugel

Con

Although John Laurens of the American Revolution fought for the civil rights of African Americans, he shouldn't be remembered in history as much as people glorify him to be.
Assuming you are stating this from Hamilton the Musical, it is worth noting that he left his pregnant wife to go fight in the war, then cheated and lied about his marital status to Hamilton. He left no finances for his wife to live off of, only adding on to his moral/ethic flaws.
He may have fought against slavery and was an abolitionist, I believe that there are far better figures worth mentioning who fought in wars for a great cause, or straight up were forgotten although honorable actions were taken to astounding lengths.
Take for example, the Brazilian Expeditionary force, specifically Arlindo L"cio da Silva, Geraldo Baeta da Cruz and Geraldo Rodrigues de Souza. These brave men fought contingent of Germans in Italy on 14 April 1944. Refusing surrender, they fought to their deaths (after running out of bullets, and ended up charging down their enemy with BAYONETS) and were buried by the Germans, who placed a cross over their graves with the inscription 'Drei brasilianische Helden' (Three Brazilian Heroes). This is just a single example of some men who were forgotten in history, who deserve a spot above John L Laurens.
In addition, John L Laurens is INCREDIBLY well known from Lin Manuel Miranda's "Hamilton", and it is clearly shown through the means of Tumblr, thousands of articles dedicated on the man, and the many references made to him modernly in Social media, music, and hip hop. I find very little articles dedicated on those three men I mentioned earlier, although their actions were arguably far more valorous till death (Laurens ended up from a gunshot wound from being shot at from his saddle during a skirmish, with little effect in his action).
In conclusion, there are plenty more figures that should be glorified other than John L Laurens, and his spotlight is already well recognized in the media well enough.
Debate Round No. 1
VoiceforLaurence

Pro

First of all, this "Hamilton" thing isn"t what I"m after. You can check the comments. One of my friends told me about him. I just recently found out he had a musical. But moving forward, they see Harriet Tubman as the fist to fight against slavery but no, this isn"t just about him, ppl before her believed that slavery was wrong and did something... they weren"t honored as much as she was. Some lost their LIVES for equality, and don"t give me that, " oh she was a slave and...", NO! Other slaves before her also did the same thing!! It"s like the Rosa Parks case, she wasn"t the first to say no to giving up her seat, it was actually a 15 year old girl named Claudette Colvin who did it BUT, she wasn"t recognized bc people stated ( Claudette Colvin: twice towards Justice) " She wasn"t a teenager. Hardly feisty or emotional as Claudette was rumored to be. Rosa Parks struck everyone she met as a contained, pleasant,committed and, levelheaded individual."
FrenchFlugel

Con

See, the point is- using the argument 'Rosa Parks wasn't the first to refuse to give up her seat therefore she isn't important' can be used against you as well. Laurens was NOT the first person to fight against slavery either, there are many more cases of abolitionists before Laurens. I'm not saying Laurens wasn't important, I'm merely disregarding him as a prized media figure as much as people own him up to be.
I merely assumed you found out about him through Hamilton, as many found his story through the musical. Besides, retracing the entire root of slavery- many nations were involved in the slave trade before America. Ancient India, China, Korea, Russia, Egypt, Greece, even Britain (though this could be argued, as Britain enforced Servitude more than outright slavery). However, this isn't a debate on the origins of Slavery. It's on whether John Laurens deserves more attention.
When addressing his past- he wasn't all that great of a person as mentioned prior. But discarding that, let's take a look at what he has done. He was a Diplomat for the US to France, and lead a Battalion at the Battle of Yorktown, though under the control of Alexander Hamilton. That on it's own wasn't to impressive, as the Commanders who actually lead the siege were George Washington, Benjamin Lincoln, Henry Knox, Alexander Hamilton, Marquis de Lafayette, Baron von Steuben, Thomas Nelson, and Moses Hazen. Though, I mean no disrespect to him in terms of his service to the US, I just don't find it as intriguingly important as say, George Washington or Marquis de Lafayette.
Besides, the greatest players in the abolitionist movement in the USA would most likely be Harriet Beecher Stowe (author of Uncle Tom's Cabin), Olaudah Equiano (became a writer after being enslaved in Britain, and ended up sparking the movement back in 1745), or even Anthony Benezet (a Quaker writer back in 1754 who had COUNTLESS works circulated about the abolitionist movement, even catching ideas in Europe!).
Though undoubtedly history has forgotten figures that meant us well, I believe the spotlight John Laurens received in the popular media deserves to be more in the hands of lesser known figures who fought for causes similar to his own.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Montague_Smith 3 years ago
Montague_Smith
the question is also badly worded. someone cant be in history more often, however, they can be talked about more. There's another history debate on about if Joan of Arc should be talked about and i dont knoiw which one to pick out of this one and that one
Posted by Montague_Smith 3 years ago
Montague_Smith
the question is also badly worded. someone cant be in history more often, however, they can be talked about more. There's another history debate on about if Joan of Arc should be talked about and i dont knoiw which one to pick out of this one and that one
Posted by VoiceforLaurence 3 years ago
VoiceforLaurence
I speak up for him bc he is misunderstood and is being told that he is gay and I hate that bc it makes him feel bad bc yeah he liked Alexander (I"m guessing bc of the animations bc YouTube is everything but I might be wrong about this "fact") that doesn"t mean he should be bullied ( yes I speak for the dead I"m not possessed ok)
Posted by VoiceforLaurence 3 years ago
VoiceforLaurence
Oh I didn"t know that tysm
Posted by Bella_Is_A_McChicken 3 years ago
Bella_Is_A_McChicken
Yep! Lin Manuel-Miranda has created a musical entirely dedicated to the life of Alexander Hamilton, which includes John Laurens. It's a fantastic musical, I suggest you check it out sometime. :)
Posted by VoiceforLaurence 3 years ago
VoiceforLaurence
Also he has a musical?
Posted by VoiceforLaurence 3 years ago
VoiceforLaurence
He was one of the first ppl to fight against slavery and was planning to have the first black army and as a reward he would let them free but he was shot,being one of the first to stand against slavery
Posted by Montague_Smith 3 years ago
Montague_Smith
i dont think he would have done enough to be a great hero on par with other leaders at the time (also, i bet they heard Hamilton, looked him up, found his family life and Bisexuality for A. Ham and want more people to know about him as he is not as known as Aaron Burr or George Washington).
Posted by Bella_Is_A_McChicken 3 years ago
Bella_Is_A_McChicken
I'm betting $69 this guy is influenced by Hamilton: The Musical, haha.
Posted by Negotiate 3 years ago
Negotiate
Interesting debate- I'd love to take a part in it! However, I was hoping you can extend the reply time- just in case any one of us has issues making it on time.
Thanks, have a good week.
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