The Instigator
billsands
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Cesarbau29
Con (against)
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0 Points

Health care is a human right

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2018 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,292 times Debate No: 118698
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

billsands

Pro

It does not have to be provided soley by the government, Private care does not need to be banned the rich can always pay for better private care, Not that that is desirable, But as a pectical matter some inequality will always exist, I don't think any society that is totally equal would function for very long it would collapse, Many examples in the 20th century did. But I do not think trying to make society more equal and just is folly and providing basic necessities to vulnerable groups is essential in a civilized society, Many different methods exist the NHS single payer the german model the french hybrid which combines public and private. . Many systems exist, But all of them in the developed world strive to cover everyone, And so should we >
Cesarbau29

Con

Alright. Let's say that Universal Health care becomes a right today. What's going to happen next?

Let's look at the medical industry, And how it works. More specifically, Let's look at the pharmaceutical industry. The pharma companies are mostly in charge of providing new medications. How do they do that? Through Research and Development. The pharma companies are currently researching new medications that could help the average person, Like you and me. But these "new" medications aren't cheap, As you and I know. That's why generic medications exist: same effects as the brand name medication, But at a lower cost. How do generic brands exist? Through the free market. The free market dictates what they want, And if there is a good chunk of people who want to pay less for the same brand name medication, Then the free market creates an opportunity for that to happen.

Now what happens when you take away generic medication in favor of the brand-name medication offered at hospitals? Actually, Before I get into that, I am going to explain why pharma companies have incentive to create new medication. These pharma companies mainly appeal to hospitals because since people go to hospitals for basically everything from ER operations to getting a check-up, They know consumers who go to hospitals will most likely pay for more expensive medication, Which are the brand-name medication. But the generic medication exist so that retail clinics can create lower prices for non-emergency causes, Like if you have the cold or the flu. Mind you, I am not saying that the cold or the flu are not important to treat, But I am saying that they are less important than, Say, Someone with a broken leg or someone who got a heart attack. These retail clinics, Given enough legal headroom to operate so long as they have professionally licensed doctors, Can create relatively dirt-cheap prices for the middle class, And in some cases, Even the poor people. What am I saying? I am saying that If the free market is allowed enough room to open more retail clinics and allow these retail clinics to compete with each other, They can actually help more people while operating more efficiently and having lower prices. Now, That doesn't mean we should get rid of hospitals. Hospitals are great for emergency operations and urgent care. But for everything else, Retail clinics are the preferred method of treatment due to lower prices.

Now, Back to the question: what happens when you take away generic medication in favor of the brand-name medication offered at hospitals? What happens is that these big pharma companies don't have incentive to create new medications because they have no competition. Without generic brands, Big pharma sees the opportunity to significantly slow down progress on new, High end medication while increasing the price of currently available medication.

"So, Why don't we regulate the prices? " you might be asking. Let me tell you why: Once you start implementing price control, Especially to the medical industry, These already existing medications become absurdly scarce to the point where it's nearly impossible to get the medication you need without waiting in line for hours on end. You know what else makes you wait for ours on end because of a scarce item? Rationing. Eventually, We will reach the point where we say "there aren't enough medications for everyone. Let's ration. ", And we start restricting the amount of medications one can get. These big pharma companies will see that governments are controlling how much a person can get of a medication, And these pharma companies not only lose incentive to create new medications, But also lose incentive to keep a sustainable production rate. Why? Because when you ration something, Production of said rationed item will have more supply than there is demand, And that cost these companies a lot of money. So to alleviate this issue, The pharma companies slow down production to the point where there is now more demand than supply. That is what is happening in Venezuela. Due to their leader giving free medication, People wait in lines for hours on end, Hoping to get their ration of medications they need, Only to be greeted with a "We just ran out of medications to give out. Try coming back tomorrow. " Not only does this screw over the people we waited hours on end only to not get what they absolutely need, But it also creates a bigger health crisis than there needed to be. More people get sick due to scarcity of medications, And we eventually start to see all but the very elite who can afford to pay for the importation of medication die. All because we made health care a right.

Let's step back for a moment and see what went wrong. By making health care a right, You just eliminated the free market that allowed for most people to afford medication. By eliminating the free market, You created an endless cycle of expensive and scarce medications that will only get worse as time goes on. That is why health care is not and should not be a right. By making it a right, You mess with the absolute fundamentals of the medical industry, Thus causing this endless cycle of scarcity we see right now in Venezuela.

Debate Round No. 1
billsands

Pro

Health care is a right in canada australia, The netherlands switzerland china oh hell most of the civilized world, They have manged in most cases to do this without eliminating market forces or innovation, Ad health out comes in the uk and germany etc are better people live longer healthier lives infant mortality is lower. . So every point you make is at best silly at worst a lie
Cesarbau29

Con

Alright. Let's look at Canada. Free Healthcare, And it is a right in Canada. Oh, What a marvelous dreamland, Right? No!

Here in the US, At least in a hospital, It usually takes around 2 hours to see a doctor for a non-urgent matter.

In Canada, There is no way you can get a same-day meeting with a doctor unless you are near death.

Why do I say that? Because in Canada, They don't check patients on a first come, First serve basis because that is simply not possible with a single-payer system. Why is it not possible to do first come, First serve? Because thanks to the Canadian government giving free medication handouts, (with the exception of urgent care. In that case, They go straight to the ER and into a hospital room) every single person who used to go to retail clinics to get their treatments don't have reason to go to a much faster retail clinic anymore. With the free health care Canada gives, Everybody from non-urgent matters like a cold, To people who are on the brink of death is now concentrated in one, Single building that causes long wait times. It is not good that a person with a cold is essentially forced to go to a hospital, A place that was meant for only people with urgent matters and planned surgeries.

Now, Canada has to organize people who need to see a doctor through urgency. In a retail clinic, A person with the common cold can just walk in, Wait around half an hour to an hour depending on the day, And get their consultation and their shots, And walk out with their medication. But once you concentrate a lot of people in one building (the building being the hospital), People with the cold who just want their darn shot have to spend almost their entire day (if they are lucky) to even see a doctor. And if you are not lucky, Oh boy, Let's just hope you can last weeks on end with a cold before you actually get your shot

But you are right about the fact that people in Germany are healthier than people here in the US. But it most definitely isn't because of free handouts. It's because the people of Germany have better eating habits than we do here in America, And they think logically and not follow the idiotic ideas the American left try's to shove down our throats. America has an obesity epidemic. We all know that. But the American left and all the mainstream celebrities now are pushing this cruel, Sick joke saying "it's ok to be fat". These celebrities on the left are encouraging our children that it is ok to eat that quarter-pounder Whopper from Burger King because "it's ok". Don't believe this is a thing? A quick Google search that says "Fat Acceptance" will show you I am not kidding. This is what the American left has become: hypocrites who complain and cry whenever somebody says to eat and stay healthy, While also bitching about how other countries are healthier because they are receiving free handouts from their government.

While free medical handouts seem good on paper, And the left shows us how "healthy" other countries are because of "free healthcare", In reality, It is a mess when free healthcare is actually put to work. Besides, I don't think it's fair that the taxes I pay for with my hard-earned cash is going to fund some strangers 5th free gastric bypass surgery that keeps eating quarter-pounder Whoppers "because it's ok to be fat. " People should be responsible for their health, Not the government. The government should stay out of health care and let us the people determine where we get our care from. Because I am not paying more in taxes for a gastric-bypass surgery for someone I don't even know. Other countries can do whatever they want to and do more harm than good, But America will (hopefully) never make health care a right.
Debate Round No. 2
billsands

Pro

he wait times that Canada might experience are not caused by its being a single-payer system.

Wait times aren’t like cancer. We know what causes wait times; we know how to fix them. Spend more money.

Our single-payer system, Which is called Medicare (see above), Manages not to have the “wait times” issue that Canada’s does. There must, Therefore, Be some other reason for the wait times. There is, Of course.

In 1966, Canada implemented a single-payer health care system, Which is also known as Medicare. Since then, As a country, Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, Mostly for elective things, Which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.

Please understand, The wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don’t want to. We can choose to dislike wait times in principle, But they are a byproduct of Canada’s choice to be fiscally conservative.

Yes, They chose this. In a rational world, Those who are concerned about health care costs and what they mean to the economy might respect that course of action. But instead, They attack the system.


A survey of 11 countries finds Canadian patients have trouble seeing their family doctor right away or on nights and weekends. Health reporter Kelly Grant takes a closer look at the numbers


However, The report found that once Canadians get in to see their physicians, They rate the care they receive from their regular doctors as among the best in the world.



CIHI oversaw the Canadian portion of the Commonwealth Fund study, Which surveyed 4, 547 Canadians from March to June of last year. The Commonwealth Fund asked the same questions about timely access, Cost barriers to medical care and quality of care during the same time period in Germany, France, Norway, New Zealand, Sweden, Australia, The Netherlands, Switzerland, The U. S. And the United Kingdom.

"Over all, Canadians were the most likely to rate the quality of care they receive [from their own doctors] as excellent of all the countries, " said Robin Osborn, Vice-president of the international program in health policy and practice innovations at the Commonwealth Fund. "Where it stands out in terms of having room to do better is on the access. "

Getting same day service is a problem in canada but not in other nations like france or germany which also have universal care. . You might have to wait two days maybe a week. . But you won't be waiting months where did you did you get such a silly notion?

Cesarbau29

Con

Cesarbau29 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
Health care is not a right; it's a service. If one proposes that health care should be provided without cost, Conversely the service itself maintains no monetary or remunerative value. When one proposes that Health Care is a right, They are saying in reality that they want someone else to pay for it. And no logically consistent reason can justify that.
Posted by Masterful 3 years ago
Masterful
When you understand basic economics, You understand why socialist concepts are harmful and do not work in the long run.
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