The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
somerandomvideocreator
Con (against)

How Can Intelligent People Overlook God's Contradictions?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 529 times Debate No: 113666
Debate Rounds (4)
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backwardseden

Pro

Taken from - http://howgodworks.com...
If you are a Christian, you believe in God and Jesus. But have you ever taken the time to sit down and think about how your God works in our world?

You have read all about God in the Bible, heard all of these stories about God at church, but how does this information stack up here in the real world? Thinking through the implications can be an interesting and informative exercise that teaches you a great deal about God.

The most interesting part of the process is the contradictions that immediately and inevitably arise as soon as you begin thinking about God. Contradictions are interesting because they can prove that something is impossible.

Here are a dozen easy-to-understand contradictions that indicate the impossibility of the God story you have been taught:

1. God is defined in Christian mythology as perfect, omniscient and omnibenevolent. But he creates planet earth to be a place where billions of people end up in intense suffering (e.g. diseases, natural disasters, deep poverty, starvation, miscarriages, parasites, etc.). The contradiction is this: If God is omniscient, he knew that the suffering would occur, but an omnibenevolent and perfect being cannot create a place filled with suffering.

2. In Christian mythology, a perfect, omniscient and omnibenevolent God creates a place of eternal torture and torment called hell, and in the mythology sends billions of people to hell without recourse. Most Baptist churches (largest protestant denomination in the U.S.) have something like this in their statement of faith: "That all who reject Christ will be in Hell and the Lake of Fire forever in the conscious torment of literal fire. " Hell is unquestionably evil. The contradiction: an all-good, all-loving being cannot create an evil place. The second contradiction: an omniscient being who is all-good and all-loving cannot create anyone omnisciently, knowing they will end up in hell, without violating his definition.

3. In Christian mythology, God starts with a blank sheet of paper as an omniscient being, custom-creates a universe, planet and species to his perfect specifications, then ends up hating what he created to the point where he he feels the need to destroy it in a world-wide flood. The contradiction: An omniscient being cannot regret what he creates.

4. In Christian mythology, God is the "absolute moral authority" and is "absolutely good". But then he floods the entire planet, killing nearly everything: men, women, children, infants, animals, insects, etc. The flood is an absolutely evil act. The contradiction: An absolutely good being cannot perform an absolutely evil act. By performing the act, God is evil.

5. In Christian mythology, God requires a human sacrifice to appease himself. The idea of human sacrifice alone is absolutely evil. Even more bizarre: Jesus is the chosen human sacrifice, and Jesus is God according to the doctrine of the Trinity. So God sacrifices himself to himself to be happy. The contradiction: sacrificing yourself to yourself is ridiculous.

6. In Christian mythology, God must remain "hidden" lest he take away faith. However, he also incarnates himself, writes a best-selling book, answers billions of prayers, has personal relationships. etc. The contradiction: A being cannot simultaneously hide and incarnate himself, answer prayers, and publish a book. What you realize, if you keep thinking it through, is that the Bible is a book of mythology, the incarnation is a myth, every "answered prayer" is simply a coincidence, and the belief in prayer is a superstition. Thus it is not the case that God is hidden, but instead that God is imaginary.

7. In Christian mythology, God is all-powerful. However, God also needs your money. Lots and lots of money. A tithe of 10% of your income to be exact. The contradiction: A real God who can create a universe and a planet would not need any money from you.

8. In Christian mythology, God wants you to sell everything and give the money to the poor. However, in the real world, God is complicit with the Vatican, which has billions of dollars in gold and other assets stored away despite the teachings of its savior.

9. In Christian mythology, God is absolutely good. But God is also silent while thousands of Catholic priests sexually abuse thousands of young boys. The contradiction: standing silent and doing nothing while knowing about such an atrocity is evil.

10. In Christian mythology, God is ready to have a "personal relationship" with people. However, God still needs pastors and priests to do the talking on Sunday. The contradiction: If God has a personal relationship with his followers, he would simply talk to his followers himself.

11. In Christian mythology, God is an omniscient being who writes a book called the Bible. The contradiction is that the Bible contains nothing but the things we would expect a pre-scientific culture 2,000 years ago to know about. There is no mention of DNA, bacteria, viruses, medical procedures, immune systems, galaxies, science, mathematics, space, orbital mechanics, the age of the universe, fossils, extinct species, etc. If an omniscient being were writing or "inspiring" a book, we would see signs of omniscience.

12. In Christian mythology, God answers the prayers of middle-class Americans by the millions. But in the real world, God lets millions of children die of things like starvation and simple diseases every year. If you think this through, you will realize that every "answered prayer" is simply a coincidence and the belief in prayer is a superstition.

RULES:
For this debate counteract the contradictions listed, prove that god and the bible are NOT filled with super massive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies and thus prove that the bible is whole and pure. For extra credit... prove that god would use text as a form of communication.

Only christians will be allowed to accept this debate.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to participate in the voting process
somerandomvideocreator

Con

Let's go through one-by-one.

1) See https://www.gotquestions.org... for a good explanation as to why. Basically, God wants us to have free will. Sure, God could intervene to stop all bad things from happening, but we need to recognize what that would entail. How would God stop poverty? He would need to change how the economics work, how the government works, etc. That would go way further back than we may be comfortable with, since problems have deeper roots than expected. And God doesn't want to remove bad people from the Earth, because good-bad is a spectrum, not true or false.

2) See https://www.focusonthefamily.com... Basically, those who reject Christ are imperfect, unfit to enter heaven, so they must be punished since God is just.

3) He didn't destroy everything. He kept Noah alive. But he created humans with free will, which means humans could rebel against him, which they did, and God didn't like that.

4) God is just, and the world was getting evil. I'll need to think about this one more though.

5) The wages for sin is death. God wanted us to enter heaven, so God sent Jesus to take our sin upon himself..

6) God needs to allow people to know about him, but he doesn't want to make himself entirely visible. It's like a teacher. The teacher doesn't want to necessarily give you the answer right away, but needs to give you some basis to start thinking about the problem.

7) God does not need our money. The tithe goes to the church so that the church could keep doing God's work.

8) The church needs money to run. Greed is discouraged, however, yet it is something that almost everyone has problems with.

9) see 1)

10) God wants people to have a personal relationship with people, but that doesn't mean you can't learn from people more experienced than you are.

11) Why would God want to add advanced scientific knowledge to a book? God probably wants people to figure it out themselves rather than tell people of things they wouldn't have the capacity to understand.

12) see 1)
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Now here"s how I run things" if there is the slightest hint of you inventing excuses from something in which you clearly know nothing about, especially when its the subject in which you claim to professing you have knowledge upon, namely this one, and you really don"t, and yet you pretend that you do by coming up with invented excuses and or flat out lying, I will insult you with my brand of insults that are original, funny, stupid, deranged and walls to the ball insane, unless those excuses are so far fetched that they are clearly pulled off from your groin to be a groin pull from the gold-i-lox area to keep scientists looking for other planets, then all bets are truly off and I may end the debate right then and there because I DO KNOW my stuff, whereas most don"t. Who knows? I may give you a strike 3 and you are out wavering of your red flag in which you don"t deserve. But who knows? So we shall see...
"Basically, God wants us to have free will." Oh I get it, you know god better than god knows god in which case you cannot even prove that god exists - correct? Strike 1 without even having to lose one stinking brain cell on it. But to 100% prove that you have no free will whatsoever IF you believe in YOUR god"
You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR christian god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible hypocritically contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so with all of its inconsistencies, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant Free Will. Now here"s some vidies that proves that YOUR god in no possible way grants man free will. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION. http://www.youtube.com... - Video 1. All Knowing god verses Free Will: The Greatest Religious Contradiction
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 2. Free Will With god
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 3. god Favors Evil
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 4. god allows Free Will?

Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.""

"When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she"ll probably say "yes". And you say "Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?" And she"ll say "yes." And so you are basically saying "you"ll have free will in heaven?" So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he"s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he"s a dick." Phil Ferguson

Now what really p**ses me off about truly ignorant christians like you is that suppose that god does grant man free will, sorry, nope, and was in any way compassionate, caring or kind, he could easily take all of the hate and evil out of free will especially as an example when daddy decides to rape, beat and torture his 4 year old girl all the way up until 17 sometimes twice per week while punch her in the face so that her a$$ turns into her vagina you truly sick son of a b**ch and you actually think there"s a god? Try harder. But god must know these things would occur trillions of years in advance before creating her. This child HAS NO FREE WILL to escape and SCREAM at the top of her lungs. But daddy, in which YOUR god was given the free will to do these detestable wonders, wow such a wonderful world we live in huh.
Your excuses are worthless and meaningless.

"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, the will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being?" or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins." Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this." Matt Dillahunty

2. You didn"t even pay attention to the contradictions. When you can pay attention to the contradictions, get back to me. Strike 2. But then again you are the absolute furthest from a christian. After all, you have no given up all of your family, you have not given up ALL of your possessions, nor do you love your enemies as per what your christ ORDERS you to do and then you go on and "follow" him. Oh but wait. You have NOT read your bible and don"t you dare state, even remotely that you have. Here"s a nice little truthful video to help you.
http://www.youtube.com... - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?

4. "He didn't destroy everything. He kept Noah alive. Yeah. That"s destroying everything. Evolution would not be able to bounce back after that. Even so, the great flood as described in the bible is a myth. It never happened. Therefore the entire bible is a lie. That"s the BIGGEST and most fatal flaw of the bible. Hit and run. "and God didn't like that." god didn"t and doesn"t like ANYTHING. If he doesn"t like anything he kills it and or has one of his henchmen to do the killing for him OR he causes that whatever to cause great suffering, pain and torture even if its babies children and pregnant mothers you sick son of a bi**h. This shows 3 things according to you because you still have yet to prove that this god of yours even exists... 1. god a a super duper whopper of a crybaby. 2. He"s a sadomasochist and LOVES to watch things suffer in horrific pain. If not then he would not create things to horrifically suffer. If god is god then he knows everything. 3. Your god has a superior ego god complex in which YOUR bible is entirely about and nothing else.

4. God is just" Absolutely not. Not in any possible way can you justify ANY of these verses and think that they are love, peace, kindness, caring, harmony. They are ALL hate and evil. No exceptions. None. Strike 3.
* god hates gays in his bible and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13
* god hates anyone that blasphemes and wants to put you to death LV 24:16
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him in his bible 2 CHR 15: 12-13, ESPECIALLY if someone worships another god/ idols other than himself, thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5
* god endorses slavery in his bible EX 21 the entire chapter especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting, LV 25:39, LV 25:42, LV 25: 44-46, DT 15: 12-15, DT 23: 14-16, MT 18:25, proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god gets jealous in his bible EX 20: 3-5, EX 34:14, DT 4: 23-24, DT 32: 16-17, DT 5:9, DT 6:15, JH 24:19, PS 79:5, PS 78:58, 2 COR 1:2,
* god wants you to die in his bible if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36
* god issues death warrants on those that curse at their parents (they are probably children) EX 21:17, JV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4
* god issues death warrants on those that curse at their parents (they are probably children) EX 21:17, JV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4
* god wants to put you to death in his bible if you commit adultery LV 20:10
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil IS 45:7, 2 SAM 12: 11-14 sick and disgusting, EX 32:14, 1 KS 1 22: 22-23, 2 CR 18:22, JM 19:3, JM 19:15, JM 23:12, AM 3:6, DT 30:15, 2 KS 22:16, JU 9:23, PV 15:3
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23

I'm out of space and there's a whole ton more. You have effectively lost this debate. All of the verses above ARE hate and evil.
somerandomvideocreator

Con

1) Let's assume for the moment that free will exists. One of your arguments was that how come free will can exist in heaven, which is a paradise, but it also exists on Earth, which is not a paradise? The reason why is that very few people can enter heaven in order to minimize evil. Earth is where everybody lives, both good people and bad people. The reason why heaven can be a paradise is that most people are not allowed in. The next question is that why doesn't god prevent bad things from happening like rape? Well, in order to stop it, we first need to remove even the idea of rape in a person's head, for example. The point is that bad actions have a long chain of events. Robberies happen because people are poor. And poverty happens because of a flaw in government. And flaws in government happen... You get the idea. Preventing evil from occurring is deeper than expected, so we might not want God to remove the root of the problem, or removing the root of the problem would be too interfering on God's free will. God wants his message to be known to all while still allowing for faith. God wants to communicate his love, yet also warn us of destruction if we do not do good.

2) God knows that it is impossible for humans to faithfully perform every command in the Bible because we're not perfect. We try to imitate his actions, but we are not perfect. But the fact that we try means that we are followers of God.
Now, about the giving all of the possessions, see https://questions.org...
We must understand that the statement was directed at the man, not at everyone. The rich young man wanted to gain salvation, and Jesus knew that. Indeed, Jesus supports wealth. He didn't tell everyone to give all of their possessions. Giving everything away would be poor use of our gifts. We need to recognize that
A) God is worth more than money.
B) Possessions shouldn't be our source of happiness.
Another thing to note is what does it mean to love one's enemies? To have no weapons? We have to protect ourselves while loving our enemies. One example of loving our enemies is a ban on chemical weapons. Even during war, we have some standards. Also, fair treatment for prisoners of war.

3) We can go more in depth on Noah's flood in the next round. But yes, God has zero tolerance for evil and evil people will be destroyed. This is a warning to all of us.

4) If you do anything wrong, you will be put to death. Harsh, I know, but it stops people from doing it, generally. Anything wrong includes forbidden sexual relations, blasphemy, disbelief, idolatry, breaking the sabbath, disrespecting one's parents, adultery, etc.

The question of slavery is rather interesting. Here are some things to note:
A) Slavery existed back then, so God's laws ensured that slaves were not mistreated. It places rules about slavery, not supporting slavery.
B) The NT compares the slave-master relationship to a parent-child or wife-husband relationship, directly saying to the masters to not abuse slaves. Indeed, in Philemon, Paul wants Onesimus to be treated as a brother, not as a slave.

You listed many passages on God supposedly hating children. I'll look at a few of them.

Matthew 10:37 - God is more important than even those that are precious to you, your own children.
Matthew 2:16 - This is meant to show Herod's cruelty and determination.
Ezekiel 9:5-7 - This passage shows God's just wrath as God destroys an entire civilization due to evil actions. God tells to not hesitate to kill even infants or virgins, but slay them all due to their evil. God has zero tolerance for evil.
1 Samuel 15:3 - This is similar to Ezekiel 9:5-7
Deuteronomy 32:25 - Similar to the prior two

Let's look at the passages where God supposedly admits that he is evil.
Judges 9:23 - see http://reknew.org...
Amos 3:6 - This needs to be understood in context. See http://www.bible-studys.org... for the context, but basically this is saying that you had better be prepared to face the divine consequence for your sins.

Why is God Jealous??? See https://www.compellingtruth.org...
Jealousy does not mean envy. In this case, it means that God asks for our full commitment to him, not a half-hearted one and will be upset at half-heartedness.

Important Notes:
1) It is not against God's nature to destroy evil cities, since God is just and will not allow God's people to be corrupted by other evil nations. If God were not to destroy evil cities, then God would not be omnibenevolent.
2) God must also punish people for their deeds for the same reason.
3) God endows us all with free will.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

1. Oh free will does exist. But if you believe in your god, as proved without question, for you, it does not exist. So any argument that you bring up where you assume that free will exists for you will automatically be eliminated. Oh and btw, with the postings on free will in RD2, it has not even begun as to why if you believe in your god that you have no free will. But this debate is not about free will, it is about the many contradictions in the bible which are completely absurd and shows god"s imperfections in many of them. Yes, there"s a good 1,000 of them which ties in with inconsistencies in which you cannot possibly overcome and it thus makes your bible unreadable. So let"s see what you got this time around.
"One of your arguments was that how come free will can exist in heaven, which is a paradise, but it also exists on Earth, which is not a paradise?" Since when is earth paradise when you have parents that rape, beat and torture their children, when there"s constant war, when there"s disease and famine, when there earthquakes and volcanoes that cause displacement, when there"s true idiot pro gunners, when the worst president of all time, Donald Trump is in the big white barn, when there"s super poverty and the rich doesn"t care AT ALL about the poor because they are true snobs, when gays are not respected even though 54% of Americans agree that its FINALLY ok to be gay and that number will rise, when diseases like cancer plague society, etc etc etc That"s hardly paradise. Now if you believe in YOUR god, then YOUR god is the cause of it all. No exceptions, none. After all this god of YOURS is in control of everything, in charge of everything, is all knowing and all powerful, knows everything, is omnipotent and is perfect (in which he"s not according to your bible but that"s for another time), "The reason why is that very few people can enter heaven in order to minimize evil." What an utterly stupid statement and an obvious made up excuse. That"s strike 1. Two more of them and your"re out buddy boy. DO NOT invent excuses ande or flat out lie to me buddy boy especially when I do know better, a lot better. "Very few people can enter heaven" Oh please. If god is god, there"s plenty of room for everyone. And there"s only ONE way to get to heaven and that"s belief in YOUR jesus christ. If someone chops up 6 five year old girls, stuffs them into a meat grinder and chows them down for breakfast (btw, your god loves cannibalism as there"s many verses that shows this), and then later finds christ, yep he gets a place in heaven. Now since I have correctly do not believe in YOUR christ, I will never get into heaven and will burn in hell forever and ever. So which version is more correct and pure evil? Oh and btw, YOUR god knowingly creates millions of children to be raped, beaten and tortured every single year. I once knew someone who was raped, beaten and tortured by her stepfather at the age of 4 all the way up until 17 sometimes twice per week while being punched in the face. That was only the start of her horrors. She then runs away, gets married, has a kid, gets a divorce, the state takes the kid. She attempts suicide by jumping off of a high dive into a pool with no water. Of course she survives. It breaks her back so she can barely walk. The hospitals will not give her any pain killers. So she turn to prostitution so she can get her crack and cocaine to kill the pain. She then dies of AIDS. So screw you for thinking your god even exists. And screw your god for creating her to knowingly suffer with agonizing pain. Oh and gosh golly gee gosh darned it all, I haven"t told you about me at all and I haven"t told you about a truly great friend of mine who one knew someone who had it far far far worse. Now I seriously doubt if she had a single happy week in her entire life. Now if your god is a god, he would---have---never---created--her to SUFFER with agonizing pain and horrors here on planet earth but would have caused her to automatically go to this mythical place called YOUR heaven. PE-RI-OD.

"The reason why"" No. you have no reason why. "heaven can be a paradise is that most people are not allowed in." Oh really? According to what imbecile? You? How would you know? What grade of high school love toys that you play with in your sleep with your battery powered easy bake oven that gives you the recipe on how to bake and fry water did you come up with that one when you cannot even prove that your god exists so you cannot even prove that your heaven exists so you pulled that one from air. Strike 2.
"The next question is that why doesn't god prevent bad things from happening like rape?" There is no question to that because if god was a god, he would stop it. Here"s something christians like you don"t get" YOUR fricken elmers glue tooth pastey god could have created peace, love, care, kindness, harmony AND KEPT IT. But nah he chose evil, anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy all in which he freely admitted to having. Doesn't that strike you as odd? And jealousy? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing but anger as disguised fear. And then even worse is this supposed god neatly passed down those baggage emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going you and for those who believe in him with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone all in his supposed "good" name. And its going to get worse, much worse if revelation is played out. Hideous. And remember Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"

I"m going to repeat this again since it went completely over your head or you didn"t pay any attention to it"
Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.""

Here"s something else" "Could god have made the world and not suffering? And if they say "no" then he"s not all powerful. If they say "yes", then why didn"t he? Its a constant thing. There"s multiple ways to come at it." Phil Ferguson

"Well, in order to stop it, we first need to remove even the idea of rape in a person's head," So then that right there, you prove that YOUR god is not a god at all, that he is not powerful enough to remove thoughts from the human mind, and yet you believe that your god can communicate with humans through prayer. That"s a HUGE SUPER MASSIVE HYPOCRITICAL CONTRADICTION. OK I"m ending this. It is so crystal clear that you don"t know what the f--k you are talking about and you have to invent excuses, and or flat out lie AND YOU KNOW IT to save your sorry a$$ from sheer utter stupidity with your lack-there-of to think, reason, rationalize, use common sense, use logic" but then again you god obviously and point blank, in which you cannot prove even exists, according to you, cannot do those things either. Case closed. Sheesh.

Now think on this before I cut you loose"
Tracie Harris "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when your"re done I"m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I"m a freakin" monster." Caller "(sounds like) Truthfully (continues) you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent when she"s as evil as"" CLICK Matt "Goodbye you piece of BLEEP!!!" Yes there are some sicko"s out there.

GOODBYE
somerandomvideocreator

Con

Let's look at the arguments made by this video:

A) Since God is omniscient, he already knows what is going to happen to you and what you are going to do.
This is true; however, just because you know something is going to happen doesn't mean that you caused it. Seismologists predict earthquakes, not cause them. Meteorologists predict the weather, not control it. God knows exactly what you are going to do, but that doesn't mean we don't have free will.

B) Freedom was imposed onto us, so we aren't free.
This doesn't really make much sense once you think about it. In many democratic countries around the world, we have many freedoms that we wouldn't be allowed in other countries. Let's suppose, however, that one democratic country decided that nobody could leave the country. The democratic country is still a good country, other than the suspicious fact that nobody can leave, of course, but that doesn't mean that it suddenly becomes a dictatorship.

C) God cannot have free will, so God couldn't pass down free will to us humans.
The first (minor) problem is that God always has multiple options, but since he is omnibenevolent, he always chooses the best one. God has free will. The second (major) problem is that this argument is actually visibly flawed. It is saying that

If A does not possess trait B, then it is impossible for A to create something that possesses trait B.

As we know, this is clearly false. Humans can create computers. There are many traits about computers that are false about humans.


Free will actually isn't addressed very often in the Bible, as far as I can tell, but here are a few verses that support it:
2 Peter 3:9 - This verse suggests that people have a choice of whether or not to repent.
John 7:17 - This verse says that anyone who chooses to do the will of God.
Proverbs 16:9 - This verse says that humans can plan their actions.

I think you misunderstood my argument. I know that Earth is not a paradise. You listed many ways that Earth is not a paradise.

Heaven can take as many people as God wants, but people first have to meet some criteria. Unfortunately, many people will not meet those criteria. Only good people will. As an example, people who find Christ will get to heaven. Believing in Christ means that you repent of all of our evil deeds. So, sadly, that means that some good people will not enter heaven. That also means that people who have been bad all of their lives, if they turn good and believe in Christ will enter heaven.

I do not know why she suffered such pain. But I know that it is part of God's plan. We may not see it now or ever, but sometimes, bad things happen for the greater good.

One of your questions was: Why did God create evil?

God did not create evil. Satan, in his rebellion against God, did the first evil action. Satan convinced Adam and Eve to bring evil into the world by disobeying God.

I believe that good and evil are eternal concepts, like numbers. The first manifestation of evil was Satan's rebellion.

Now, let's look at Tracie Harris's quote. God endows everyone with free will, including rapists, which means that they can rape people. People have the choice to rape, murder, etc.

The answer to Phil Ferguson's question is yes. Yet the cost of a perfect world may be different than one might imagine. Heaven is perfect, but only because it's exclusive. A perfect world would be either a world without evil or a world without the freedom to do evil. The first one would be impossible, since as I said earlier, good and evil are eternal concepts. Creating a world without evil is like creating a world without numbers. Creating a world without the freedom to do evil would be a world where everyone is a robot. The cost of free will is imperfection.

God can remove thoughts from the human mind, but doing that is removing a person's free will.

Now, I will analyze Tracie Harris's statement.

Most people would naturally stop people from raping a child, but God doesn't. Why?

Well, why do parents let their children go to school? Parents could homeschool their children and never allow them to leave their home. At school, children bully and get bullied.

As this scenario shows, parents allow their children to go to a dangerous place knowingly.

Another scenario is let's suppose two brothers often fight and argue. The parents could make it so that they could never interact ever again. But would that be okay? Parents would rather let them interact, but punish them if they fight.

These are much smaller scale clearly, but if you make this on a greater scale, God is allowing humans to interact even though they may kill and rape each other.

Now, we may not have done the same as God. If we were creating the world, we may have created a world where no evil occurs and no evil thought even occurs and where people do what we say. But that would be a world of robots. God did not want that. God wanted to create a world where people could choose to do what they wanted, so that people could do good not as a mere program or order, but out of the goodness of people's hearts.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@SHARINGISCARINGg - You do not have the ability to read and comprehend. So by you mentioning "There is a book called "A Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel. This book proves without a shadow of a doubt that God exists." is utterly stupid because there's no possible way that you've read and and comprehended it. And a book does not prove god when there's no tests, declarations or demonstrations that proves your god exists.
So tell yah what, since you think you are such a super genie-us and so smart, why don't you take some excerpts from this awe inspiring book that you praise that your cheese whiz mind proves that this god of yours exists. And I will bet you ---everything--- I have that it doesn't. Too bad this isn't 2015 with the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge when $1 million was offered to prove anything from the paranormal between then and 1964 and EVERYBODY failed, just as you will. Wow. You are so amazingly stupid that its beyond shocking. If you honestly believe that you can prove your god exists through that book, don't you think that others would have done the BEFORE YOU? Nah. You are far too stupid to figure that one out. Not only that, but even if there was a remote possibility of a hint of truth behind it, then that book would instantly be a 1 billion seller from around the world, your god would be proved, your god would be the only god worshiped and all other gods would instantly fail and be proved as fraudulent, and the author would be in fact the only quadrillionaire on this planet, and your god would instantly hit all media outlets, the internet, all TV and newspaper outlets, EVERYTHING, there would be 0% of things unturned, AND there would be absolutely no letup. So how come all of this hasn't happened and not even close? Its---because---there's---0%---proof---for---your---god's---existence. Thankfully. Maybe when you grow up and stop existing in cow pastures and eating baked and steamed fried water, you will realize this. Nah.
Posted by SHARINGISCARINGg 3 years ago
SHARINGISCARINGg
Also, I have told several people about this book, and they just refuse to read it, but I promise you, it will be worth it. I can not this is the proof that atheists have been asking for forever. They just need to read it. I used to be an atheist, but then I read this book, and now, here I am. I can not debate you unless you read this book.
Posted by SHARINGISCARINGg 3 years ago
SHARINGISCARINGg
Ok @debatingboi. I got you.

There is a book called "A Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel. This book proves without a shadow of a doubt that God exists.

And also, you mean that factual evidence that says the world started from a collision of particals that caused a huge explosion and created everything? I thought Christians had faith, but atheists... Man they gotta try really hard to believe that crap.
Posted by debatingboi 3 years ago
debatingboi
Well yes that is unlikely but there is no factual undeniable proof that God exists. Is there?

I mean, it is pretty odd that everything was created the way it was.

But

There is so much factual evidence that everything was from science and not one being. Those things could all have just been natural, because of science. Most evidence points to the fact that God does not exist. Or, at the very least, he likely doesn't.

Prove me wrong.
Posted by Dinis 3 years ago
Dinis
@debatingboi. The universe itself, physics, biology, nature, humans, the Earth. Do you really believe everything was created by accident

It takes an intelligent being to create a car, a robot. It takes an even superior being to create a human, an Earth. Evolution, in a whole, is a theory.
Posted by debatingboi 3 years ago
debatingboi
Someone please show me actual evidence that God exists, without telling me to read the bible xd
Posted by SHARINGISCARINGg 3 years ago
SHARINGISCARINGg
So first you say God can not create evil. That is not true. God is perfect, He can create whatever He wants to. Whatever He makes, does, or doesn't do is part of His good and perfect plan, so it is not evil. So that takes care of number 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

And you said "an omniscient being cannot regret what he creates," but the fact is, it never says anywhere that he regrets creating humans. It says the world is evil and needs to be cleansed. So that takes care of 3.

Next you said "sacrificing yourself to yourself is ridiculous," which it is, but the fact is, He didn't sacrifice Himself to appease Himself, he sacrificed Himself so that we could live with Him forever in Heaven. So that takes care of 5

Lastly, where does the money that you give to Church go? If it is a good Church and not a bunch of losers, it will go to helping people that need it.Homeless, sick, dying, etc. The money does not go to God, but rather to God's cause. God does not need the money. So that takes care of 7.

Looks like you are out of excuses.
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