The Instigator
backwardseden
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Adam_Godzilla
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points

How moral are you in accordance with the christian god?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Adam_Godzilla
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/10/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 620 times Debate No: 118929
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (4)

 

backwardseden

Con

In answer to that very question that would be not at all and it doesn't equate, Because nobody can prove that this god exists.
Be that as it may what this debate will show is that the character in the texts of the bible and its god are completely immoral by anyone's standards.
This will also show that hopefully you do have morality and decency within you and you will not squabble to the storybook character god who with verse after verse is completely immoral and you have completely risen above that.

This is not about what you THINK YOUR religion states is you think you are a christian, Especially christ who has nothing to do with this debate. So please do not bring in that ---whatever--- ringside. This is about how YOU think YOU stand and how moral YOU believe YOU are in accordance with what YOUR god states in HIS bible.

Here is a test for YOUR morality to see where YOU stand with YOUR god with how he believes from what is stated directly from the bible and or torah. It is a simple "yes" or "no" response. Right now there will only be asked a couple of things as this round only specifically deals with the threat of death. In other rounds, Should this debate get that far, A LOT more terrifying subjects will be asked of you and where you stand in accordance with your god.

* Do you think you should be put to death just because you blaspheme? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, He shall surely be put to death, And all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, As he that is born in the land, When he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, Shall be put to death. "
* Do you think you should die if you work on the sabbath? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Exodus 31:14 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, That soul shall be cut off from among his people. ", Numbers 15: 32-36 " And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, And unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, Because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, And stoned him with stones, And he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. " Notice jesus worked on the sabbath, He was not put to death. Strange? That supposed "law" that christians use is in ill effect and does not work.
* Do you think you should die for merely cursing at your parents? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Exodus 21:17 "And he that curseth his father, Or his mother, Shall surely be put to death. , Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. ", Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, Let him die the death:, Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, Saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, Let him die the death. "
* Do you think you should die if you commit adultery? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, Even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. "
* Do you think you should die if you are a homosexual? Y___? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. "
* Do you think you should die if you worship other gods? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 "9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, And afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, That he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, Which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, From the house of bondage. " AND 17: 2-5 "2 If there be found among you, Within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, Man or woman, That hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, In transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, And worshipped them, Either the sun, Or moon, Or any of the host of heaven, Which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, And thou hast heard of it, And enquired diligently, And, Behold, It be true, And the thing certain, That such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, Which have committed that wicked thing, Unto thy gates, Even that man or that woman, And shalt stone them with stones, Till they die. "
These plus many more completely absurd examples show how completely inane and insane this biblical god is, As well as completely immoral. Yet no one can even prove he even exists. Wow even worse is how many of the examples that are listed above are taken directly from the 10 commandments THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD FOLLOW? What's worse is this so-called god would never use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.
Simply put, If you answer "yes" to ---any--- of the questions, It means you are totally bankrupt, Corrupt, And immoral, Just like your unproved god clearly is in your shallow mind and you need not respond as everybody who is sensible and intelligent knows where you stand as every single response absolutely requires a "no" response, No exceptions, None.
So if you have responded with a "no" response to all of the questions, Congratulations, This means you are moral and sane and not bullied by a horrific god that you cannot even prove even exists. Since you have reached this far with answering "no" to all of the questions, Then it is also quite simple and it means that you disobey your the direct rules, Laws and actions of your god. So then the next question needs to be asked is where do you think you stand with YOUR god? Then the next question needs to be asked, Which is the most important one of all "why do you believe? " With the follow up question "why 'should' you believe since your god is in no possible way moral? "

Oh yes, The NT is much worse. We can get into that if you want as chrisyt is a false prophet.

Rules:
Prove the storybook god of the bible to be moral.

Be intelligent. DO NOT INVENT EXCUSES because I will know better and you will thus rightly be insulted with my brand of insults.

dsjpk5 as always will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
Adam_Godzilla

Pro

Minus conduct points for not being clear and not putting effort to make your text readable and understandable. Minus argument points for not making a clear resolution.

What is con saying? That he isn't moral? What am I supposed to say to that? He is quoting the bible, So is he saying he isn't moral by bible standards and I am to prove that he is in fact moral by bible standards? I don't have a clue what you do in your spare time. This does not belong to a debate. This belongs to a forum.

Minus spelling points for con. Spelling isn't just mispelled words but grammar as well and structuring. I don't think con structured his sentences well. Of course, I'm not expecting pro level writing, Just something that is comfortable to read. In the history of DDO, This counts to voting points.

I believe con lost this debate. But I suspect con doesn't care. He wants to discuss things. Ok, I'll discuss I guess.

Con continues to write on about some things proving I am not moral by the bible's standards. I really don't get it. The title implies I am to answer if I am moral or not. So as pro, I can just say yes I am moral, And then the debate is over.

So ok, Pro says the rules are to prove that god is moral. That's not how debates work. You come up with a resolution. And then I refute it. And I cannot 'prove' anything esoterical. This debate is fundamentally flawed and again conduct points should be deducted.

I'll give an argument anyways: God is moral. Bible says so.

Pro never defined the concept of morality. So that makes me the concept definer. I define morality as whatever the bible says. So there you go, I 'proved' that god is moral.

(P. S. I am agnostic. )
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Con

* Minus points for Pro being a hairy ape costume that yodels through the jungles in his radar range rage singing "poop goes the testicle".
* Minus points for not understanding the difference between the usage of the Engish language and Pro's cabbage batbrain inability which cannot converse between himself and a piece of paper that slips between his groin.
* Minus point for Pro not being able to understand his own morality and that between the supposed god of the bible in which he would have to prove even exists in which according to the bible does not have an ounce of morality.
* Minus points for Pro flatly lying in stating that he is agnostic.
* Minus points for Pro not kicking himself with his battery powered easy bake oven so he can better learn how to bake and fry water before accepting debates that he does not understand. Typical so-called christian.
* Minus points for Pro not knowing how to say he's a contradictory hypocrite. Se' habla Ingles? My English is just fine bucko. Yours isn't.
*Minus points for Pro thinking that his grammwwhore and spilling, Oh sorry, Spilling gee, I have to pinch my bionic butt leotards for making a deliberate miss-steak on my spotted blackened heart. Will you never forgive you, You frozen turnip salad?
* Minus points for Pro ruining a perfectly good reasonable good debate because he's a complete jacka$$ before giving himself electroshock therapy before entering a sandman convent.
*Minus points for Pro just simply not knowing that I am so so so much better at these gangbang rules of his that he made up than he is.
* Minus points for Pro not knowing how to say "duh".

Anything else?
Now crawl back into your simpleton cell you call a beddye bye. Turn the lights out. Get some rest before those B52's nuke your eternal resting place because yeah, You'd probably sleep through it.
Adam_Godzilla

Pro

Minus points to Con for trolling and wasting my time. F**king hilarious. But a waste of time.


Also, I'm not christian. I don't believe in a god. If I did, I wouldn't have attempted suicide cause that would have sent me straight to hell ;).
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Con

*Double minus points for Pro wasting his own time and trolling himself. He writes his own scripts, Stars in, Produces his own porno's. After all that how he MUST make it to the air with his garlic onion beer deodorant beer belly commercials.

Attempting suicide, Been there, Done that twice, Boy.

Actually christianity believes just fine in suicide. Its just that the churches don't wish you to believe in it.
"If you found out today that I went to hell, Would you be sad? Yes. And if there"s no sadness in heaven does that mean that when you get to heaven that you stop caring about me, Does that mean, Would that still be you? Would there ever be a you that doesn"t care about me? Yeah see "that I"m not a theologian" is an admission of defeat. Because what they are doing is saying "I believe something but I really don"t understand it and I"m not really comfortable with it and I don"t need to be an expert in it" even though if this were true it could be the single most important thing anybody could understand. Because all of the life becomes ---nothing--- if you were to spend an eternity somewhere. That would have to be the most important thing. There"s reasons why churches, Catholic churches have declared suicide to be a mortal sin is because they recognize the doctrines they are teaching, The natural progression, If there was no prohibition would be for people to kill themselves right now. "I walked out of the confessional. I"m right with god. Let me just off myself right now because that"s just going to get me there. " So they have to put a prohibition in ah that suicide is going to send you straight to hell. Cause if you kill yourself you cannot keep donating to the church. " Matt Dillahunty
Adam_Godzilla

Pro

"*Double minus points for Pro wasting his own time and trolling himself. He writes his own scripts, Stars in, Produces his own porno's. After all that how he MUST make it to the air with his garlic onion beer deodorant beer belly commercials. "
This is soooo f**king goooood mate.

"Attempting suicide, Been there, Done that twice, Boy. "
Not my point. Sorry to hear that. My point was that's why I'm not christian old timer.

"So they have to put a prohibition in ah that suicide is going to send you straight to hell. Cause if you kill yourself you cannot keep donating to the church. " Matt Dillahunty"
I learned something new wow. I found this too:

"The Judeo-Christian condemnation of suicide does not, Therefore, Begin in the Bible. Although the commandment against killing (Exod 20:13) is commonly believed to include killing oneself, There is simply no evidence in either the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament to sustain any moral condemnation of suicide. "

I'm still not christian. I don't believe in god. I don't believe in stories of Noah. I don't believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. I have many reasons.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
The Christian god is not a moral being, The Christian god is an authoritarian being. The very premise of the belief Christian hold is based in authoritarianism, Believe or burn for ever. Following an authority makes people obedient not moral. If God's actions and wishes are automatically good by definition, Then its morality is arbitrary and we ourselves have no moral reason to follow it, And may do so only out of fear of the consequences or of selfish want of reward.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
The Atheist Experience in a non profit show in which you can call into every Sunday at 5:30 pm EST which is run by intelligent hosts and they encourage skepticism. You can call in if you want but they generally put theists at the front of the line. At any rate. . .
"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, The will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being? " or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins. " Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this. " Matt Dillahunty

Please tc and have fun -Michael
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
"I would say that instructions to kill homosexuals is immoral. I would say the subjugation of women is immoral. I would say that having women inferior position to men is immoral. I would say that selling your daughter into slavery is immoral. I would say that sacrificing the first thing that comes out of your house is immoral. I would say that substitutional atonement is immoral. I would say that the very concept of of sin is immoral" the idea that I could somehow offend a god or something that I could think or do which has no impact in or around in reality is immoral. I would say holding someone responsible for the sins of their father under the fourth or the tenth generation is immoral. How many more do you need before you recognize you are making excuses that advocates for immoral positions? " Matt Dillahunty

"Stop making excuses for your holy book. It is an abomination. It encourages abomination. And the more you sacrifice your humanity and morality to make excuses like "well god really wanted people to love each other but they just wouldn"t so they just wanted to nudge them in the right direction by saying you can own people but don"t beat them too damn much. " Its still a weaka$$ immoral god. And YOU are better than that. Stop making excuses for the immorality. Take responsibility for your life and realize that if a GOD tells you that you can own somebody, That GOD is a piece of s--t. " Matt Dillahunty

Oh and btw, I didn't need nor require at all to define morality in any way shape or form. Well the headliner perfectly describes the debate "How moral are you in accordance with the christian god? " And then "Here is a test for YOUR morality to see where YOU stand with YOUR god with how he believes from what is stated directly from the bible and or torah. " Does that make better sense?

One more thing from Dillahunty and I think you will get this one perfectly clear. He's a really good debater, I think and is a part of The Atheist Experience.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Adam_Godzilla - Oh that is totally wrong.
1. Conduct. Who cares? Trump's, The worst president of all time's conduct of all time, Conduct is far worse. Have a howl with this. . . Https://www. Debate. Org/debates/Things-that-Donald-Trump-the-worst-president-of-all-time-and-god-both-are-unclean-have-in-common/1/
2. Oh it was made perfectly clear.
3. "Actually, In present day society, If you wanna go into generalities, Morality is entirely based on religion. " WRONG. Morality is based on each individual. EWe don't need a religion telling us what is right and wrong or a god telling us what is moral and what isn't especially when the god of the bible is completely immoral and kills for sport because he's a jealous crybaby and others worship other gods in which if he were a god in the first place would have known that this w2ould have taken place before it would have taken place. But here's the REAL problem. So-called christians don't get that this god of THEIRS in no possible way believes in peace (which would have been introduced in other RDS) because no peace anywhere, Not ever since their god's inception for any length of time has ever been achieved. And really? Considering that this god of THEIRS has freely admitted to having baggage HUMAN emotions such as evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Vengeance, Fury, Jealousy.
4. Really? God is moral? Killing and the murder of babies, Children and pregnant women is moral? The bible says so?
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, Unjust, Unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, Bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, Homophobic, Racist, Infanticidal, Genocidal, Filicidal, Pestilential, Megalomaniacal, Sadomasochistic, Capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror. " - Richard Dawkins
Posted by Adam_Godzilla 3 years ago
Adam_Godzilla
I respectfully disagree voter.

1. Insults are against conduct no matter what. It has been that way for 10 years. I've been on this site for 4.

2. It doesn't matter what the resolution appears to be. It is Con's responsibility to make clear of that. And the title of this debate is completely different to the resolution you're proposing.

3. Actually, In present day society, If you wanna go into generalities, Morality is entirely based on religion. Or at least stems from it. Therefore, It's important to properly define it.

4. God is moral. Bible says so. Is an argument because I have a thesis, And I have supporting evidence. The bible says god is moral. Therefore god is moral. How do we define morality? By what the bible says. As you can see, This is a pretty solid argument. You can see now how, Defining morality is extremely important. Con failed to do so.

5. Ok, Con wins on sources.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Adam_Godzilla - So tell me about the UK. Yeah I'm surprised its not more than 50%. According to pew, The most accurate poll company in the world, Since 2007 god and his followers have lost 5. 1% and atheism has doubled.
Posted by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
"Be intelligent. DO NOT INVENT EXCUSES because I will know better and you will thus rightly be insulted with my brand of insults. "

Con pretty much says right there that insults are going to be a possibility in the debate doesn't he? So I don't see how I can ding him for conduct in that sense.

I don't find 'this debate of his that hard to understand. And resolution appears to be that Christian deity does not match modern day moral values. In particular of whoever accepts debate. So if a person who practiced the bible as it was 2000 years ago or whatever, Would have won, In the particular definition/concept Con gives of deity.

Morality is usually defined as good or bad. I don't think Con unstated definition is wrong. Though I would agree with you in the thought that something is moral in a sense if it says it is moral, Only in a sense though.

Personally I would have argued that according to Con's concept of the Christian deity, The average person would not match up morally. But then I would have argued that there are more interpretations than simply Con's view. I would have then used an interpretation of the Christian deity that matched current moral standards.

"God is moral. Bible says so. " Isn't really much of an argument.

Who did you agree with before the debate?
I don't care. Right this second.
Who did you agree with after the debate?
I don't care. Right this second.
Who had better conduct?
First round indicated this was free for all. Though debatable in some parts I suppose.
Who had better spelling and grammar?
I was able to understand both Pro and Con easily enough.
Who made more convincing arguments?
Con by forming a framework of his concept of the Christian god using verses from Christian bible.
Who used the most reliable sources?
Since Con used specific bible bits as his sources for argument on morality wouldn't he win on sources? Even though he is ignoring other verses. Pro did use verses, But they were regarding suicide.
Posted by Adam_Godzilla 3 years ago
Adam_Godzilla
u know. I've been saying this over and over again to random people, But did you know, That 50% of the UK do not believe in god? Holy sh! T.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Seasoned beatings. Yeah the "though shalt not kill is such a good one isn't it considering that this god has killed/ murdered 2, 821, 364 in his bible in one little splatch of land which included babies, Children and pregnant women (abortions in which so-called christians are so hypocritically against? ) So that's another hypocritical contradiction. So it really doesn't make sense about this suicide thing. And I would happily kill myself if it meant saving my wife and children (no I don't have any). Now the main reason why I don't believe in this god is because according to the bible in which no god would ever be stupid enough to use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible, Is because of his utter lack of morality. Then you have to demonstrate, Test, Declare that this god has ever existed in which nobody has ever done. Yep am in total 100% agreement with you, The Noah B. S. And flood, 6, 000 year old earth + a whole ton more is utter crap.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Topaet 3 years ago
Topaet
backwardsedenAdam_GodzillaTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: "* Minus points for Pro being a hairy ape costume that yodels through the jungles in his radar range rage singing "poop goes the testicle"." While this is very amusing, this debate does not seem to have been a troll debate from the start, therefore conduct to Pro
Vote Placed by Speakerfrthedead 3 years ago
Speakerfrthedead
backwardsedenAdam_GodzillaTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made an argument that went unrefuted. Con's conduct was bad. Overall, very funny.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenAdam_GodzillaTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Countering leanings substandard vote.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
backwardsedenAdam_GodzillaTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: See Reason in comments.

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