The Instigator
backwardseden
Con (against)
Tied
3 Points
The Contender
Adrian14
Pro (for)
Tied
3 Points

How moral are you in accordance with the christian god?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/25/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 525 times Debate No: 119606
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

backwardseden

Con

In answer to that very question that would be not at all and it doesn't equate, Because nobody can prove that this god exists.
Be that as it may what this debate will show is that the character in the texts of the bible and its god are completely immoral by anyone's standards.
This will also show that hopefully you do have morality and decency within you and you will not squabble to the storybook character god who with verse after verse is completely immoral and you have completely risen above that.

This is not about what you THINK YOUR religion states is you think you are a christian, Especially christ who has nothing to do with this debate. So please do not bring in that ---whatever--- ringside. This is about how YOU think YOU stand and how moral YOU believe YOU are in accordance with what YOUR god states in HIS bible.

Here is a test for YOUR morality to see where YOU stand with YOUR god with how he believes from what is stated directly from the bible and or torah. It is a simple "yes" or "no" response. Right now there will only be asked a couple of things as this round only specifically deals with the threat of death. In other rounds, Should this debate get that far, A LOT more terrifying subjects will be asked of you and where you stand in accordance with your god. Ready?

* Do you think you should be put to death just because you blaspheme? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, He shall surely be put to death, And all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, As he that is born in the land, When he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, Shall be put to death. "
* Do you think you should die if you work on the sabbath? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Exodus 31:14 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, That soul shall be cut off from among his people. ", Numbers 15: 32-36 " And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, And unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, Because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, And stoned him with stones, And he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. " Notice jesus worked on the sabbath, He was not put to death. Strange? That supposed "law" that christians use is in ill effect and does not work.
* Do you think you should die for merely cursing at your parents? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Exodus 21:17 "And he that curseth his father, Or his mother, Shall surely be put to death. , Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. ", Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, Let him die the death:, Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, Saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, Let him die the death. "
* Do you think you should die if you commit adultery? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, Even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. "
* Do you think you should die if you are a homosexual? Y___? N____? Your god thinks so. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. "
* Do you think you should die if you worship other gods? Y____? N____? Your god thinks so. Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 "9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, And afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, That he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, Which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, From the house of bondage. " AND 17: 2-5 "2 If there be found among you, Within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, Man or woman, That hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, In transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, And worshipped them, Either the sun, Or moon, Or any of the host of heaven, Which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, And thou hast heard of it, And enquired diligently, And, Behold, It be true, And the thing certain, That such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, Which have committed that wicked thing, Unto thy gates, Even that man or that woman, And shalt stone them with stones, Till they die. "

These plus many more completely absurd examples show how completely inane and insane this biblical god is, As well as completely immoral. Yet no one can even prove he even exists. Wow even worse is how many of the examples that are listed above are taken directly from the 10 commandments THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD FOLLOW? There are four to be exact out of six. What's worse is this so-called god would never use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.
Simply put, If you answer "yes" to ---any--- of the questions, It means you are totally bankrupt, Corrupt, And immoral, Just like your unproved god clearly is in your shallow mind and you need not respond as everybody who is sensible and intelligent knows where you stand as every single response absolutely requires a "no" response, No exceptions, None.
So if you have responded with a "no" response to all of the questions, Congratulations, This means you are moral and sane and not bullied by a horrific god that you cannot even prove even exists. Since you have reached this far with answering "no" to all of the questions, Then it is also quite simple and it means that you disobey your the direct rules, Laws and actions of your god. So then the next question needs to be asked is where do you think and believe you stand in accordance with YOUR god? Then the next question needs to be asked, Which is the most important one of all "why do you believe? " With the follow up question "why 'should' you believe since your god is in no possible way moral? "

Oh yes, The NT is much worse. We can get into that if you'd like as christ is a false prophet.

Rules:
Prove the storybook god of the bible to be moral.

Be intelligent. DO NOT INVENT EXCUSES because I will know better and you will thus rightly be insulted with my brand of insults.

dsjpk5 as always will NOT be allowed to vote in the voting process.
Adrian14

Pro

Before I begin I really must complain about the title of this debate. "How moral are you in accordance with the Christian God? " The pro side argues you are immoral just like the Christian God, While the con side argues that you are moral, Unlike the Christian God. No matter which side you argue, It presupposes that the Christian God is not moral. This is a classic case of moving the goal posts. You are assuming that the Christian God is not moral no matter which side you pick which then leaves not much room for debate. You try to address this at the end by saying that the pro side does indeed argue that the Christian God is moral, But I don't buy it. I could say that "there is no good reason to play with my pet dog, " to mean, "I do not have a pet dog. " It makes the same amount of sense. Now that we have cleared that up, I am going to move into the actual debate and defend my belief that the Christian God is moral despite the fact that the resolution of this debate simply begs the question.

Ok, Let's begin on the burdens of this round. As the affirmative I must only prove to you that the Christian God is moral. This debate has nothing to do with whether or not God exists, Or anything else, The only burden I have is proving that the Christian God is moral. That being said, Let me begin.

First of all, I would like to point out that all sin deserves death. No matter what the sin is, It still deserves death.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. " Romans 6:23

This would reduce this entire debate down to that single criteria as everything on your morality test is considered sin. The question now is whether or not it is moral for sin to be punished with death. This is ultimately the thesis I will be defending.

I have two main points to defend this thesis:

1. Because sin is very serious, The consequences must be serious as well.

2. It goes against God's nature for him not to punish sin

The only thing that can pay for sin is death. No matter what the sin is it deserves death. Blaspheme, Cursing, Etc. Deserve death because they are sin. Sin is very serious so it only makes sense that the consequences must be serious as well. Thus, For God to punish these sins with death is not immoral, But is rather justice because every sin deserves death.

The nature of God is that he is holy and perfect. He has to punish sin, Otherwise, It would go against his nature. People always ask if there is anything God cannot do and the answer is yes. He cannot go against his own nature. He is holy and perfect and thus, If he were to leave sin unpunished, He would indeed be going against his own nature which is something he cannot do.

So in the end, Yes, I believe you deserve to die if you blaspheme, Curse, Or murder. But that is what we deserve, Not what we ended up with. Notice at the end of Romans 6:23 how it says, "the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. " It is through Jesus that we get eternal life instead of death. He paid for our sins, Thus, We receive eternal life, Rather than receive the penalty of death for our sins. All we have to do to receive this gift of eternal life is put our faith and hope in Christ.

Sources:

1. Https://www. Desiringgod. Org/messages/the-wages-of-sin-the-punishment-of-evil-at-the-cross-and-in-hell
2. Https://www. Phrases. Org. Uk/meanings/373700. Html

Back to you con
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Con

"Before I begin I really must complain"" You have no complaints unless you are as morally bankrupt and corrupt as your god. Its that simple. That"s the entire point of this debate and how moral YOU are because the god of the bible most certainly is not. To prove it, Why don"t you think creationists will not put YOUR god on trial again? Oh yes, Its not only because creationists cannot prove YOUR god"s existence because all they have to go on is faith as evidence as faith is NOT evidence and they"d get squashed, And they know it, Its also because YOUR god of YOUR bible is completely bankrupt and immoral. So you have no quibbles, No complaints "about the title of this debate", Not really, Not if in any possible way if YOU are moral.
"The pro side"" Whoa. Sounds like you are speaking for your entire tribe of billions. Well YOU do know that they happen, Not all, To disagree with YOU. So how bout YOU speak for YOU. K?

"It presupposes that the Christian God is not moral. " Oh absolutely not. There"s no presupposing about it. There"s a claim with solid rock harder than infinity diamond proof that you nor anyone who is sane cannot corrupt. "You are assuming"" WRONG! I"m not assuming anything. "that the Christian God is not moral no matter which side you pick which then leaves not much room for debate. " WRONG! It doesn"t leave ---any--- room for debate IF you choose the immoral bankrupt completely inept god of the bible. "You try"" WRONG! I did. But that"s only true IF you are moral. But its not me that first did these things. These debates have been debated for thousands of years ever since YOUR bible was first put into print and people first read it and found out how shocking it was and its god was completely deranged and psychotic. What I did for this debate was simply bring up 6 simple questions where YOUR god requires death for something that is absolutely silly, Mundane, Unimaginative, Droll nothingness that most certainly would NOT require death by anyone"s calculations for those who fit in with the human race.
"But I don't buy it. " means that you do not fit in with the human race, As if any court in this country would hear your case if you were to chop up 6 five year old girls, Murder them, Torture them, And then later say you found christ just to save your hyde. But yeah, Because you found christ, According to your bible, You will have a spot in heaven. But lil ole me who would ---never--- cheapen my life to find a droll rag doll christ, I am to be eternally damned. Well goodie for me. All the more reason for me to be who I am and NOT commit any crimes. Though Christopher Watts has not found christ - yet, He is to spend the rest of his life behind bars when he should rightly be executed. Now what do you think about "The Son of Sam" who did find christ? Awe gee. I forgot. Christ is a false prophet.
"I could say that "there is no good reason to play with my pet dog, " to mean, "I do not have a pet dog. " Bad reasoning which makes sense only unto you and has nothing to do with morality. So it will neatly be scrapped. "Now that we have cleared that up, ", No only you have cleared up nothing. Remember you are a mere 17 years old, A mere teeny bopper, Still stuck in high school with a high school education. So your ability to reason, Think, Use common sense, Rationalize, Use logic, Because your god, You, Your bible, Your religion is shoddy, Inferior, Paltry, Pretentious and extremely boring.
"I am going to move into the actual debate and defend my belief that the Christian God is moral despite the fact that the resolution of this debate simply begs the question. " Well wow. You just contradicted yourself. Did you even know that you just did? So let"s see what yah got kid. I will tell yah this, If its not up to par with the laws of your god putting people to to death for absolutely no reason, Then you"ve failed this debate.
"This debate has nothing to do with whether or not God exists" Oh absolutely 100% it does because nobody, Not one person has ever in the entire history of the human race has ---ever--- been able to prove that YOUR god exists. Not ever. (more of that later. Oh don"t worry tiger, You are nowhere near as smart as you think you are) "The only burden I have is proving that the Christian God is moral. " WRONG!
"First of all, I would like to point out that all sin deserves death. No matter what the sin is, It still deserves death. " So why haven"t you killed yourself or have someone do it for you? Because after all you must have sinned somehow in your arrogant miserable life? Oh and oh yeah, To end this debate, You can"t sin without YOUR god. So prove that YOUR god exists. Until you can do that your teeny tiny little brain has 0.

Be that as it may, Let"s have some fun. Let"s get into sin, Since you think you know so much and let"s pulverize you. Ready?
What value do you place on sin, Or if its not your view, It"s the bible"s. Let"s look at some examples. . . On a 1 to 10 scale. . .
*Homosexuality which has never done you any harm to you must = a 10
*no other gods before me must also = a 10
*shall not make for yourself a graven image must also = a 10
*take the name of the lord your god in vain must also = a 10
*remember the sabbath day, To keep it holy must also = a 10
*god ensues slavery and the beating of slaves so that must = a 10
*god loves raped women so that must = a 10
*god can justify his many genocides which would mean the killing of innocent babies, Children and pregnant mothers which is extremely, Excessively, Unreasonably, And is foolishly contradictory and hypocritical = a 10
*god knowingly hates children with a good 30 verses = a 10

Raping, Beating and torturing a child must = a 1 because children do not have a voice in the bible, To SCREAM. They get to say nothing. Their mouths are glued shut.
The abuser who is raping, Beating and torturing a child must also = a 1 because there's no relevance into doing harm to a child in the bible.
In no way does god believe harmony, Love, Care for each other because otherwise peace would have already been achieved = a 1

If you do not see the horrific details behind YOUR religion, God and bible, And its fatalistic flaws and how valueless they are, Then you are completely gone into another non existent universe. But then again, You like the typical so-called christian, Have obviously not even picked up your bible and read past page 1 in which no god would even dream of using text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.

Oh the very best part" Since sin doesn"t come into play AS IT CONTRADICTS ITSELF in your bible, So you have absolutely no idea, None as to what "sin" is.
Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, Because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. . (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, And he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, Then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, And the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

Matt Dillahunty "What is sin and why should I care about it? (That"s a very good question. ) I don"t give a damn about sin. And that"s because I am not stupid enough nor ignorant enough to believe in a selfish self centered god so I have to look over my should every second of every day and worry about something that is completely meaningless such as sin) I understand why I should live an ethical life and treating people in certain ways, We have secular foundations for moral systems. But sin from the christian perspective is a crime against god or god"s nature itself - right? If god makes the rules and you violate it, That"s a sin. Well what if god makes a rule that you should kill your child, Does that make it good? Caller " Yeah that"s where I do things that are not aligned in what the bible says. " Matt "Yeah. But are they good things? Do you have good reasons to have that the things you are doing are not immoral? Like do you have an example? Like don"t confess to a crime or anything. For example the bible is opposed to homosexuality. Do you think there"s something immoral about those who are homosexuals? " Caller "Uh there"s none that I can think of. " Matt "Yeah me neither. And so if the bible"s opposed to it add the bible is the word of god, And the Koran is opposed to it as well and the Koran is supposed to be the word of god as well, And there are two holy books and let them argue over who god is and what god thinks and until they can come up with a sound secular justification for homosexuality being immoral then I don"t need to pay their views any money because its just an opinion at that point. "

I also said in RD1 "Simply put, If you answer "yes" to ---any--- of the questions, It means you are totally bankrupt, Corrupt, And immoral, Just like your unproved god clearly is in your shallow mind and you need not respond" Now what part of that didn"t you understand?

Having a "duh" sign stamped on your forehead couldn"t be more clear.
Adrian14

Pro

Adrian14 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Con

backwardseden forfeited this round.
Adrian14

Pro

Let's begin on the argument of God's existence, I have two responses. First, By asking me to prove God exists, You are extending the burden of proof because proving God's existence isn't what the resolution asks me to do. The resolution only asks me to prove that the Christian God is moral. Second, Even if you bring the issue of God's existence into the debate I then have the right to also ask you to prove God's existence. After all, How can someone be immoral, If they don't exist? Thus, All of your arguments concerning the issue of God's existence will be dis-regarded for this debate. Now let's look at your arguments.

First, I would like to point out that although all sin deserves death, It has different consequences. Homosexuality, Lust, Lying, Stealing are all sin and deserve death but have different consequences.

The rest of your arguments simply beg the question and that because God punishes sin the way he does, It is wrong. I replied in my last argument and I gave reasons supporting this, By pointing out that it is just that God punishes sin the way he does.

There is a reason God allows evil and the answer is simply I don't know. I am not claiming to have all the answers but I am claiming that they are there. After all, Problems arise when you question whether an Omnipotent, Omniscient human being is doing the right thing.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Con

"proving God's existence isn't what the resolution asks me to do. " OK fine. Then sin does not exist and that's according to you. This idiot conversation that you've dredged up is becoming extremely boring and dull. Please come up with something original. "The resolution only asks me to prove that the Christian God is moral. " OK great, Do it without sin. Duh.

"Second, Even if you bring the issue of God's existence into the debate I then have the right to also ask you to prove God's existence. " Nope that's not the job of an atheist. It is very clear that you don't even know what an atheist is. So let me with my hairs of gold on my you know where area sponge bath of smoking bile. . .
1. A person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

"After all, How can someone be immoral, If they don't exist? " Characters in print, Movies, TV, Magazines etc etc etc. Wow ever go to school past preschool? Obviously not. And then you have the gall to try to explain yourself? Go buy a big wed wagon and go for a stroll. "Thus, All of your arguments concerning the issue of God's existence will be dis-regarded for this debate. " OK bye. Don't squawk to me anymore. Its very clear that you have nothing of value to say.
Adrian14

Pro

I'd like to take a step back from all the minutia of this round and simply look at the resolution. What does it ask us? The Christian God of the Bible, Is he moral or immoral? Now let's look at what my opponents are all trying to say to you.

He says that the Christian God allows immoral things like rape, Torture, And murder, Therefore, He has to be immoral. He provides you no link for these arguments whatsoever, But only begs the question and assumes that punishing sin makes someone immoral. I would like to point out that my opponent has simply not addressed my counter to this. That is, That all of us are deserving of death because all of us our sinners by nature, And by choice.

To end, I would like to give a one word answer to why God allows evil. Free will. God allows evil to exist because of free will. Free will brought sin into the world and thus, The consequences must be faced.

Thank you, Vote pro!
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
backwardsedenAdrian14Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Since I don't want drop as low as dsjpk5. I will decide to actually vote on the debate. Adrian does not realise he is on the side that he is moral. It is not moving the goal posts if you counter argue God is moral and if I follow what It states I am also moral. Adrian also stated " I believe you deserve to die if you blaspheme, Curse, Or murder" which means he believe in righteous sinful acts. Not realising the act itself is sinful which is being intellectually dishonest. Since Adrian believes that if someone speaks badly about their faith they should die but I am sure does not have the same reaction to something not part of his faith.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenAdrian14Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con called Pro "immoral". That's poor conduct.
Vote Placed by zhaod1 3 years ago
zhaod1
backwardsedenAdrian14Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had a much better conduct than con, so conduct goes to Pro. In addition, con did many capitalizations incorrectly, such as in the middle of words or in the middle of the sentence, so pro also gets better spelling and grammar.

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