The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
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The Contender
jessp
Con (against)
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0 Points

I actually met god in a dark back corner of a busy street

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 551 times Debate No: 112576
Debate Rounds (4)
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backwardseden

Pro

I actually met god in a dark back corner of a busy street with all the smelly stench of p**s not too long ago and he invited me into a gay bar. We had an interesting conversation as he was attempting to pimp himself to me. Well actually we didn"t have a conversation at all. He just sat there dumbfounded. He was on the losing end of course. I did all the talking. And I asked him a few simple questions such as "Why have you killed at least 2,821,364 in your bible which included babies, children and pregnant mothers all in one extremely small area of land in the world which all took place in your bible?". "Why did you wipe out pretty near 100% of all life in which there was no need for it as you have done in the great flood?". "Why do you hate gays and want to kill them?". "Why do you hate children?". "Why do you hate those that curse at their parents and you want to kill them? What if they are abused children?"Why do you hate those that curse at their parents and you want to kill them? What if they are abused children?". "Why do you hate those that do not worship you and you want to kill them?". Why should you hate others and get jealous at others because they wish to worship other gods and you thus hate them so much that you wish to kill them?". "Why do you hate those that work on the sabbath that you wish to kill them?" "Why do you hate those that commit adultery that you wish to kill them?". "Why do you believe that slavery is a good thing?". "Why do you believe that rape is a good thing?". "Why have you committed abortions?". "Why did you create absolutely no free will whatsoever?". "Why did and do you create sin knowing all too well that man would fail throughout time ever since Adam and Eve were created?". "Why did you create evil and hate and satan especially when it was not a need, a requirement nor a necessity? What is it with you that deems it necessary to create this conflict?". "Why did you lie?" "Why do you love to see, create, and take part in suffering especially in that of children?". "Why do you have the need, requirement, and want for anger, wrath, jealousy, vengeance, rage, fury, evil in which you have freely admitted to?". "Since you have those "baggage" emotions, that"s not perfection. So why should anyone believe in you?". "Why did you pass down all those emotions of hate and evil to man so in turn man could learn to hate?". "Why not do away with all of those emotions completely and instil peace, harmony, love, care, kindness, etc etc etc?". "Why are you a contradictory hypocrite? You say "thou shall not kill" and yet you kill?". "Why would any supreme deity such as yourself actually place "faith" above everything else as it is the most preached thing in the bible? Surely it should be love, caring for our neighbors and each other.". "Why do you have this bombastic blubbering "ego"?". "Why would you ever be stupid enough to communicate in text form, the worst form of communication possible so man can get your message wrong all---the---time because there"s a 0% of a chance, and you should know this, but obviously you don"t and you must love the confusion and non consensus, that any text from now-a-days can be traced back to the original. And even if it could, nobody could interpret it correctly. So again, why text, the worst form of communication? Why not simply coming on down here and talk to us?. That would be evidence for the whole world to choke on of your existence rather than the non proof of faith and you playing hide-n-go-seek which naturally with my shoulder shrugged is not a pathway to truth and an excuse for christians when they don"t have evidence?". I had so many questions for him. But naturally, just like most who are religious as he thumbed his nose to the world, as god himself who does not have an answer for anything as he rightly pretends he does, he ran off into the cold dark of the night like the coward that he is and quickly and quietly disappeared.

The rules are for yours to complete: Answer the questions above.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
jessp

Con

Wow, that is a lot of questions. I will answer as many as I can briefly because I don't have enough space to answer all of them in depth.

1."Why have you killed at least 2,821,364 in your bible which included babies, children and pregnant mothers all in one extremely small area of land in the world which all took place in your bible?"
He kills people because he knows that life is not the greatest good. The purpose of Life is to learn to know him (along with spiritual growth and learning to love) and the people in the bible who he told people to kill were turning other from Him.

2. "Why did you wipe out pretty near 100% of all life in which there was no need for it as you have done in the great flood?"
The flood was to cleanse the earth. God is a God of both judgement and love.

3. "Why do you hate gays and want to kill them?"
God does not "hate gays and want to kill them". Anyone who told you this is wrong and doesn't know their bible. God condemns the action of gay sex as a sin, but he does not hate gay people. And just like every other sinner, God wants gay people to come to know him.

4. "Why do you hate children?"
He loves children. Mark 10:13-16

5. "Why do you hate those that curse at their parents and you want to kill them? What if they are abused children?"
I think you are confusing God condemning sin with God hating the sinner. If God says something is wrong that does not mean that he hates the person who does it.

6. "Why do you hate those that do not worship you and you want to kill them?"
See 5 & 7

7. "Why should you hate others and get jealous at others because they wish to worship other gods and you thus hate them so much that you wish to kill them?"
He is a "jealous God" because he gets sad and frustrated when people worship fake gods and do things that hurt themselves. He wants them to come to know himself because that is the best for themselves.

8, 9. "Why do you hate those that work on the sabbath that you wish to kill them?" "Why do you hate those that commit adultery that you wish to kill them?"
See 5.

10. "Why do you believe that slavery is a good thing?" Slavery in the bible is not like slavery today. It was usually more like a contracted employee relationship where the person worked off a debt and was set free. And God never said that it was a "good thing".

11. "Why do you believe that rape is a good thing?"
He does not believe that rape is a good thing. There are laws against rape in Leviticus. The cultural context was also very different towards women back then.

12. "Why have you committed abortions?"
What? When???

13. "Why did you create absolutely no free will whatsoever?"
The idea of free-will came FROM the bible. If you think he hates all these things and there is no free-will, then how do they keep happening? If no one had free-will, wouldn't God just make people not do stuff that he hates?

14. "Why did and do you create sin knowing all too well that man would fail throughout time ever since Adam and Eve were created?"
God did not create sin. He let Adam and Eve choose because obedience is useless if there is not the option to obey. He didn't want robots, he wanted a relationship. He cannot have a relationship with someone who cannot choose. Sin is a consequence of free-will.

15. "Why did you create evil and hate and Satan especially when it was not a need, a requirement nor a necessity? What is it with you that deems it necessary to create this conflict?"
See 14. Satan was also given free-will, and he chose wrong.

16. "Why did you lie?"
When?

17. "Why do you love to see, create, and take part in suffering especially in that of children?"
He does not love suffering, but again, comfort and life is not the purpose of life. Suffering helps people grow and that is the purpose of life.

18. "Why do you have the need, requirement, and want for anger, wrath, jealousy, vengeance, rage, fury, evil in which you have freely admitted to?"
All of these (his anger, wrath, jealousy and rage) are all a form of love! He loves us so much that it infuriates him when we hurt others or ourselves. Any parent gets mad when their child hurts other children or themselves. He is mad at the sin in us that is destroying us.

19. "Since you have those "baggage" emotions, that"s not perfection. So why should anyone believe in you?"
See 18

20. "Why did you pass down all those emotions of hate and evil to man so in turn man could learn to hate?"
Those emotions are a consequence of sin, not passed down from God.

21. "Why not do away with all of those emotions completely and instill peace, harmony, love, care, kindness, etc etc etc?"
Because it would be fake. A world where everything was great would either mean no humans or no free-will.

22. "Why are you a contradictory hypocrite? You say "thou shall not kill" and yet you kill."
God's laws do not apply to himself. He gives laws to humans, but they do not apply to himself. And his law was "do not murder". Killing is necessary in certain circumstances (like war or capital punishment).

23. "Why would any supreme deity such as yourself actually place "faith" above everything else as it is the most preached thing in the bible? Surely it should be love, caring for our neighbors and each other."
Because faith means relationship. God craves a relationship with humans more than anything else, and when we MUST have faith, it keeps up going to him and seeking for him.

24. "Why do you have this bombastic blubbering "ego"?
Bad description, but I see your point. The answer is because he is God. All things are made to worship him. This would be bad for a human to do because we are not God, but all the world is created for and by God, so why can't he have it all worship him? Also, when people worship him, it is the best for us.

25. "Why would you ever be stupid enough to communicate in text form, the worst form of communication possible so man can get your message wrong all---the---time because there"s a 0% of a chance, and you should know this, but obviously you don"t and you must love the confusion and non consensus, that any text from now-a-days can be traced back to the original. And even if it could, nobody could interpret it correctly. So again, why text, the worst form of communication? Why not simply coming on down here and talk to us?. That would be evidence for the whole world to choke on of your existence rather than the non proof of faith and you playing hide-n-go-seek which naturally with my shoulder shrugged is not a pathway to truth and an excuse for christians when they don"t have evidence?"
Faith is key for the relationship which is why he doesn't make it obvious. The bible is also the best literately supported ancient document. And he did come down to talk to us. that's what Jesus did. Christians do have evidence.

He did not run. He sent another person (me) to answer your questions and he gave more than sufficient evidence if you look for it. Christianity is not believed by people in spite of the facts. Many Christians have STRONG, compelling evidence for their faith. They believe because of the evidence.

You seem to be very mad at God and that is totally understandable. God doesn't want for there to be so much pain in the world, and he has set a plan in motion to redeem everything. Not only to make everything okay, but to give purpose and meaning to all the struggles and all the pain.

I think you have heard many wrong things about the bible. Have you read it yourself? If not, why not try to? Keep looking for answers, they are out there.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, the will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being?" or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins." Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this." Matt Dillahunty

1. You do not EVER justify the killing of of innocent babies and children. Got it you punk kid sweaty piece or rear end wipe? Not for ANY REASON NOT EVER. I really should end this debate right here, right now because of your complete immorality and you proved that YOUR god, in which you cannot even prove even exists, has no morality either.
I will give you 3 strikes and anything even remotely like that and this debate will be over, and a true scum of the rearth like you and your unproved god will be out. People who do not believe in your god happen to be sane and have morals.

2. "The flood was to cleanse the earth." That is an invented excuse and a made up lie. Strike 1. Getting rid of ALL life except for a few fragments is in now possible way love. But then again you are a mere teeny bopper, can"t possibly have any genuine friends or loved ones after showing "love" like that because you have no idea of the meaning of the word. Strike 2.

3. "God does not "hate gays and want to kill them"." Oh he absolutely does. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." KJV
13 "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." NLT Hey, that's YOUR god's laws.

4. Your god hates children LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23 strike 3 and in a HUGE MONUMENTAL WAY and goes to show the entire universe that you have not read your fricken bible AT ALL.

And wow you showed a few verses from Mark 10: 13-16. That"s it? All is forgiven while all the sick and disgusting things this god of yours goes like just a pin prick according to you as compared to the big bang? WRONG teeny booper the verses you presented are completely worthless. They came from the lips of your jesus, in which case you also have no proof he even exists, and most certainly your precious jesus, in which you do not follow, which proves you to not be a valid christian, well this jesus, was not god and was a false prophet at best.

You don"t know your bible AT ALL. And wow does it show. YOUR god, that you can"t even prove exists, is sick, disgusting, point blank immoral, like you for supporting him for whatever reason in which you have none. This debate is now over.

You really think I should continue with this debate? I don"t think so. Not when you are completely immoral as your god is, as you justify the wiping out of 100% of all life, which includes children and babies, when you think its cool for your god to put a death warrant on gays, just because they are gays, when your god CLEARLY hates children and babies and you---point---blank---obviously---have---not---read---your---bible, but invented excuses instead. Ah yes, such is the typical so-called christian behavior in which they think they know their subject matter, but they really don"t, so they pretend that they do by inventing excuses for something in which they know nothing about. Bad idea. Especially to those that know better. And believe me. I do know better. A lot better.

Oh ok I"ll continue with one more to humiliate, degrade, and dehumanize you even further because you flat out deserve it because you are so pathetically arrogant and stupid and once again you clearly do not know your bible, no one god damned f--king bit

5. "Why do you hate those that curse at their parents and you want to kill them? What if they are abused children?"
I think you are confusing God condemning sin with God hating the sinner. If God says something is wrong that does not mean that he hates the person who does it.
* Exodus 21:17 "And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death."
** Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
** Mark 7:10 "For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:"
**Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Yeah you punk kid A$$ its one of the 10 commandments, and do you really think I"m worthy of death if I curse at my parents? Why of course you do. Just as you believe I"M worthy of death as YOUR bible claims if I commit adultery, break the sabbath, not believe in your god, am gay, awe gee, what did I miss? Awe gosh golly you warped individual, what if its reverse and my parents severely abuse, rape and sodomize me, oh but wait, nothing is to be done then as proved by the verses above in #4.

Awe hell you"ve dug yourself such a hile of misery that you cannot dig yourself out of, Let"s jump to number 7 and that"s it.

7. "Why should you hate others and get jealous at others because they wish to worship other gods and you thus hate them so much that you wish to kill them?"
He is a "jealous God" because he gets sad and frustrated when people worship fake gods and do things that hurt themselves. He wants them to come to know himself because that is the best for themselves.
THAT, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT A WARRANT FOR DEATH.
Here"s some videos to help you.
http://www.youtube.com... - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?
http://www.youtube.com... - top 10 reasons why the bible is repulsive
This debate is now over. Because you are completely immoral, just as your god is, this debate is over. I cannot possibly in good conscious communicate with you anymore. If you were to take those ideals to any court in this country, to any jury on common sense, they"d string you up by your neck from a noose so tight that it would strangle you before you were to be hung within the next minute of passing sentence.

Oh and oh yeah to make matters all the worse for your completely in denial brainwashed self with no genuine friends or loved ones, your god, if reasonably intelligent, and its rather clear that he"s not, as proved, he would NEVER use text as a source of communication, the worst source of communication possible.

"Stop making excuses for your holy book. It is an abomination. It encourages abomination. And the more you sacrifice your humanity and morality to make excuses like "well god really wanted people to love each other but they just wouldn"t so they just wanted to nudge them in the right direction by saying you can own people but don"t beat them too damn much." Its still a weaka$$ immoral god. And YOU are better than that. Stop making excuses for the immorality. Take responsibility for your life and realize that if a GOD tells you that you can own somebody, that GOD is a piece of s--t." Matt Dillahunty

"I would say that instructions to kill homosexuals is immoral. I would say the subjugation of women is immoral. I would say that having women inferior position to men is immoral. I would say that selling your daughter into slavery is immoral. I would say that sacrificing the first thing that comes out of your house is immoral. I would say that substitutional atonement is immoral. I would say that the very concept of of sin is immoral" the idea that I could somehow offend a god or something that I could think or do which has no impact in or around in reality is immoral. I would say holding someone responsible for the sins of their father under the fourth or the tenth generation is immoral. How many more do you need before you recognize you are making excuses that advocates for immoral positions?" Matt Dillahunty
jessp

Con

You have brought up a lot of things that I need to think about.

The debate can be over, but I have one more question that I am genuinely curious about.

Where do you think morality comes from? This is not a challenge, but an honest question; I really want to know. You keep saying that the commands in the Bible are immoral (and I totally understand that and I might even agree). What morality are you comparing them to? Where does your standard of morality come from? Please answer my question; I just am genuinely curious.

I'm so sorry that you see me the way that you do. I totally understand how you see me and the bible this way; thank you for explaining you point of view further.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

You asked me where does morality come from? Well I know killing is wrong and I didn"t need, nor require anybody to tell me that one even though your god has committed countless genocides for absolutely no reason at all, including 500,000 of his own supposedly chosen people which is truly appalling. So god had no morality. I didn"t need nor require my parents to tell me that stealing was wrong. I didn"t and in all conscious have never have had the need to. Adultery, well who cares? Lying, I did it all the time when I was a kid. I don"t do it anymore. Its a very bad idea. DON"T do it IF you want to keep ANY friends and loved ones. PERIOD. They will walk away if you do. They will also walk away if you try to trump evidence from something in which you clearly know nothing about and yet you pretend that you do. If you don"t know your subject matter, steer clear from it until you do. The Aborigines, nearly all native American indian tribes, until the white man greasy sweaty pig white christian brethren nearly wiped and wiped them out, The Inca, those who believe in Gaia mother earth and treat the earth as "one" - as a living organism, Buddhists, Hindu"s, etc, they have a lot of morals. They are not perfect, but who is? But you don"t see them going to war over their god simply for the reasoning that the god of the bible tells you to, without an explanation of the why and the worshiping false gods/ idols is not a reason to kill someone. That"s immoral. And the "reason" is because god is jealous, in which, no supreme deity would ---ever--- get, is not a reason either. And nobody can prove that this god of the bible ---even--- exists. So what are christians fighting for? Jealous air from a superior ego complex. (Take away your god"s ego and you don"t have a bible.) That"s immoral on the delivery system of false hope. "More people have died in the name of god than for any other reason." George Carlin and he"s 100% correct. Immorality is easy to define. Morality is rather difficult for me to define because I"ve seen so much immorality my entire life. I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black and then I could tell you about me.

One thing that I find truly disgusting about your religion in which your bible states point blank is that if you believe in christ you will get to heaven. That explicitly means that if I were to chop up 6 five year old girls, rape them, torture them, and then murder them and then stuff them into a box and then later in life, even if it was two days, I would get to heaven. Now if I do not believe in christ, I will never get to heaven even though I"ve done nothing wrong. I will---burn---in---hell. That"s me being completely moral, and your bible being completely jacked up as being completely 100% immoral. And goodie for me and billions of others, all the more power for me and them to ---never--- believe in this christ figure in which no one has proven has ever existed.

"Well here"s the thing though, if I were in a situation where I could stop a child rapist, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god." Tracie Harris she"s right
http://www.youtube.com... - christian negates his own morality

Here"s a few good videos on morality
http://www.youtube.com... - Objective MORALITY and VALUES - Atheist Experience (this is really good because there"s so many ways to define morality and Matt gets right into it)
http://www.youtube.com... - Atheist debates - morality
http://www.youtube.com... - god: Merciful? Maniac? Mass-Murderer?

There"s A LOT on god and his complete immorality. There"s thousands of verses in YOUR bible on them. I can post a few if you"d like. Believe me, some are truly horrific and disgusting and I am certainly a much better person morally for not following this god especially because of all of his hate and evil, or any for that matter for the simple reason that they all give false hope as none are proved.

Its not me that sees the bible this way, its an evil and hateful book that hates children + a whole lot more. OK here;s some selected verses from it showing this. Some repeat. That's only because of the subject matter and some you've already read.
* god hates gays in his bible and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13 proving god hates,is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him in his bible 2 CHR 15: 12-13, ESPECIALLY if someone worships another god/ idols other than himself, thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5 proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god endorses slavery in his bible EX 21 the entire chapter especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting, LV 25:39, LV 25:42, LV 25: 44-46, DT 15: 12-15, DT 23: 14-16, MT 18:25, proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god gets jealous in his bible EX 20: 3-5, EX 34:14, DT 4: 23-24, DT 32: 16-17, DT 5:9, DT 6:15, JH 24:19, PS 79:5, PS 78:58, 2 COR 1:2, proving that he is evil, hates and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god wants you to die in his bible if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36 proving god hates and is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god wants to put you to death in his bible if you commit adultery LV 20:10 proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil IS 45:7, 2 SAM 12: 11-14 sick and disgusting, EX 32:14, 1 KS 1 22: 22-23, 2 CR 18:22, JM 19:3, JM 19:15, JM 23:12, AM 3:6, DT 30:15, 2 KS 22:16, JU 9:23 thus proving that he IS evil which is irrefutable and also proves he hates and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23 only to name a few proves god hates and is 100% pure evil and 100% proves he cannot be involved with love.
* god hates women in his bible LM 4 9-11 sick and disgusting, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, JD 21:10, 2 SAM 12 11-14 sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31 17:18, LV 26 21:22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, DT 2 32-34, 2 KS 8: 9-15, 2 KS 15:16 sick and disgusting, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, 2 KS 6: 28-29 sick and disgusting, JD 19: 24-29, LM 2 20-22 sick and disgusting, 1 COR 14:34,1 TY 2:12 proves god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god loves rape in his bible NU 31: 17-18, 2 SAM 12: 11-18 sick and disgusting, JD 19:24-29, JD 21: 10-24, DT 20: 10-14, DT 22: 28-29, DT 21: 10-14, JD 5:30, EX 21 7-11, ZE 14: 1-2 proving that he is evil, pure evil and nothing but, is filled with hate and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god commits abortions who knows how many times within several verses in his bible, so that means that christians do not follow their god which is extremely hypocritical and contradictory from his bible HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, 2 KS 8: 9-15 sick and disgusting, 2 HS 15:16 sick and disgusting, HS 9: 11-16, and perhaps the biggest acts of abortions were committed in the great flood according to this so-called god of the bible in the great flood (which never happened btw) so who knows how many pregnant mothers died there in his bible thus proving this god to be nothing but pure evil, hate and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god loves yummy cannibalism in his bible LM 2: 20-22, JM 11: 22-23, LV 26:29, 2 KS 6:28-29, LM 4: 9-11, proving this god to be truly sick and completely whacked out thus is evil, hates,and thus cannot be involved with love..
* Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all tortures, all pedophiles, all sadomasochists etc etc etc combined. After all god knowingly created them which means that he is ultimately responsible for them. Its either that or god is not a god and lets them off the hook with nothing but a tap on the shoulder for their horrific, disgusting, repugnant crimes and simply god---does---not---care. Now here's some examples of god"s sickened, diseased, abominable atrocities for absolutely no reason at all... the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw) so who knows what the body count was there? 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? Nope.
jessp

Con

Most of the explanations of the bible stories below, I assume that you are familiar with. I am including them for the sake of argument and the audience. These are all to the best of my knowledge from what I have heard, read and been taught.

If you didn't need anyone to tell you what was right and wrong, then where did you get the idea from? You just know what is right and wrong? How? Who decided what is right and what is wrong? Why IS murder wrong (I agree that it is very wrong, and I am very sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't think it was wrong in my first reply)?

I understand why you see God as immoral and evil. I don't know if I can explain why I don't think he is because we don't share a common understanding of the source of morality. You believe that morality applies to God (correct me if I'm wrong) or in other words, that he need to do certain things or not do certain things to be moral. I believe that morality comes from God so he is above it. I know that you won't agree with this, and I understand why. It feels incredibly unfair.

I understand your revulsion at people getting into heaven after doing horrific things just because they believe in Jesus and that normal people do not get into heaven because they don't believe in him. The "believe in Jesus" phrase is very misunderstood. It does not mean just that you believe he existed and that he died and rose again. The bible says specifically that even demons believe this and (from a Christian point of view that believe in demons) are CERTAINLY not getting into heaven. The "believe in Jesus" phrase is often paired with confessing him as your Lord and repentance. Confessing him as your lord means that he rules your life. And if you are truly letting him rule your life, you would not murder or rape people. If you did this before, God will forgive you, but only if you truly repent. This kind of repentance is not just apologizing but turning completely away from your sin and following the commands of God.

On the subject of God's commands, yes he commanded the Israelites to kill nations of people. This is a horrible thing for him to have commanded. I don't fully understand why he did. I do know that those nations were often steeped in horrible traditions like mass raping or child sacrifice as norms of their culture. I am not saying that this justifies genocide, but it is important to remember. Many times the Isrealites did not follow his command and they did not wipe out those nations. This led to Isreal itself being corrupted just like he warned it would. Again, all of this does not justify genocide; I still don't fully understand why God commanded what he did.

On the rest of God's law in the Old testament, it was written to demonstrate the severity of sin and the impossibility of being righteous before God. There is a heart attitude and purpose behind the laws that the laws can only give a limited practical application of. God's purpose in creating the laws (to the best of my knowledge) was to show how humans can never live up to his standard of holiness. He was demonstrating how we need a savior. I know that you won't agree with this at all; I am just explaining my point of view on the Old testament law.

On the subject of people not getting into heaven if they don't believe in Jesus; there is debate about this in christian circles, and I personally have a rather nontraditional view of the matter. I don't believe that people need to say specific words or even know who Jesus was to get into heaven. I believe that if people are honestly seeking God, they will find him. I don't know exactly how, and I need to research more about what the bible says on heaven and hell before I can answer this objection in a more comprehensive manner.

Your main objection seems to be that God is immoral/evil. Again, I ask you, according to what standard? Where do you think the standard of morality comes from? The main reason that this is an objection that I cannot dispute is because we believe morality comes from different sources. I believe that it originates from God"s nature and you don"t believe that. Where do you believe it comes from? We can"t exactly debate this topic until we find common ground.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

OK this is over. I read y\our second paragraph and that was far enough too much. The very reason why you have no genuine friends or loved ones, like so many here on debate.org, especially those that are christian, is not only are they, like you, completely brainwashed and go into flat out denial by their indoctrination, but they, like you, completely avoid the imprint of evidence that is presented to them as you have clearly done without question.
Here's something for you... when I was either 8 or 9 I was beating up on my brother. I was hitting, kicking, punching him for whatever reason. I don't remember. And he was crying and bawling. And he took it to my father. And then my father taught him to "put up his dooks" or whatever it was called and my father sent him right back in, and I beat my brother up anyway. I will never forgive my father for doing that. Um no dad you make peace between us, not war. Yeah I had my morality then because of it. And yeah since then my father favored my brother every step of the way. Morality. Right. Since that time, I've never, not once hit anyone, not one person and I am now 56. And at that time I most certainly would have had enough common sense, morality, to know that if my dad was beating up on my siblings or my mother, I would have protected them from him. And that most certainly would have NOT been taught to me by anyone.
There is an eternal clock that tells us of our morality and it doesn't come from an invisible god that nobody can prove even exists who is based on nothing but hate and evil as the verses have ultimately proved. That is of course you are a complete psychopath totally incapable of insight towards anything who goes around shooting schools up, praying for that magnificent day. And had you watched the videos, you f--king arrogant prick, who cannot examine ANY evidence put forth to him, NO HE OPENS HIS MAW AT ALL TIMES FIRST AND FOREMOST ---BEFORE--- GAINING ANY KIND OF UNDERSTANDING in which you clearly without question didn't watch them, you wouldn't have asked that completely stupid question AGAIN.
I leave you now with this... everybody, no exceptions is born as an atheist. No exceptions. None. Someone MUST teach you your or whatever religion in order for you to believe in it. It just doesn't come POOF from nowhere. Wow could the very same thing be true of morality? Why yes does. And you know what snookums? A lot of animals have their own special morality. Perfect examples are when they care for their young or when they hang around in their families and how do they get extremely worried when left alone., But not always. IT-DEPENDS. It depends on certain situations and surroundings as examples. That's true of everybody, again except for psychopaths who are incapable of feeling anything. Also, if there is the slightest nth of a degree that you do not believe in god(s) then you are an atheist. Bye.
jessp

Con

You keep relying on insult, not argument.
Contrary to your beliefs, I have examined the evidence.
And I am not a psychopath or whatever other insults you keep throwing at me.

I don't know what else I can say to you. I have said all that I can say; I will not insult you by repeating it. I don't think we share enough common ground to continue to debate this topic.

I wish you well, and I hope you find healing for all that pain and anger that you seem to feel.

I know this will make you very irate, but I will pray for you. I still believe that God is a God of love. I do have reasons for believing that, but I don't think I can explain them to you. I know that God loves you and the whole world very much.
Debate Round No. 4
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